too nice 1917

GaryinOKC · #1 03-14-2024, 10:07 PM

Picked up a small batch of S&Ws today. Included was a beautiful 1917 US Property gun. Too beautiful. Rich deep blue and polished screw heads. Markings are still crisp but little doubt in my mind it is a professional reblue. timed perfect. Except for a couple small dings in the finish and a small chip in one grip it almost looks new. No repair date on the grip frame. Still a sweet piece I think I may add to the collection.

Artyldr01 · #2 03-14-2024, 10:17 PM

It is kind of hard to tell from the photos, but I wouldn't be so sure it isn't original. I have a pretty spectacular M1917 as well that is original.

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bamabiker · #3 03-14-2024, 10:33 PM

I believe I could live with either of those. Nice 1917s.

Baltimoreed11754 · #4 03-14-2024, 10:55 PM

Very nice Smiths.

Pisgah · #5 03-14-2024, 11:13 PM

Mine has an iron-clad provenance. It was issued brand-new to my grandfather, who later bought it from the armory at Camp Dodge, Iowa, when he mustered out of the Medical Corps in 1919, and I know the history of it for every day since. It served as security in the drawer of the desk in his medical office for 62 years. I know it is original -- but 2 "experts" have judged it a refinish until its documented history was revealed.

Sometimes "too good to be true"... isn't.

Artyldr01 · #6 03-14-2024, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisgah

Mine has an iron-clad provenance. It was issued brand-new to my grandfather, who later bought it from the armory at Camp Dodge, Iowa, when he mustered out of the Medical Corps in 1919, and I know the history of it for every day since. It served as security in the drawer of the desk in his medical office for 62 years. I know it is original -- but 2 "experts" have judged it a refinish until its documented history was revealed.

Sometimes "too good to be true"... isn't.

What he said! :-)

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murphydog · #7 03-14-2024, 11:16 PM

Are the ends of the rounded pins on the left side dished or flattened? Is the pin at the forward end of the extractor rod in the white? Any rounding of the frame or cylinder edges?

If no, I'd guess original finish. Enjoy!

JH1951 · #8 03-14-2024, 11:20 PM

That is one nice 1917.
Why do you think it is reblued? I do not see any evidence of a reblue. More and better pictures may make me think otherwise, but I am impressed!

Here's one of mine:
1917 S&W2.jpg
too nice 1917-1917-s-w2-jpg

GaryinOKC · #9 03-15-2024, 10:11 AM

The overall condition, liquid commercial blue, and little evidence of any use raise my suspicion. But the pins are not rounded the letters are crisp and there is no sign of buffing. I will get some better pictures this weekend.

2152hq · #10 03-15-2024, 10:40 AM

The over all pic at first glance makes the edges of the gun look kind of 'soft' like a refinish often has.
But it may just be the picture itself.
The other pics don't seem to show the same feature,,they have sharp edges.
I'm not seeing any obvios signs of any of the lettering having been re-cut by hand engraving methods. But that's just looking at the pics of course.

The one feature that usually tells quickly if the gun has been reblued is the Govt inspectors stamp and US Eagle marking stamp.
Those were done to the complete and finished (blued) pistol.

The 'United States Property..' marking on the bottom of the bbl was roll marked before the bbl was final polished just as the other bbl markings were done.

So the Govt Inspection stamps were punched into the blued finish. That slightly disturbs the bluing and will usually show a slight bit of bluing loss within the stamped mark itself.
Just like a Proof Mark will
Plus it upsets/raises the metal at the edges of the stamp mark.

If the part has been re-blued over the orig stamped marks, there is no blue loss around the mark.
If it has been polished over before reblue,,those raised edges of displaced metal from being stamped are either gone all together or worn down from their somewhat sharp raised edge feature.

The trigger pivot pin, hammer pivot pin and the rebound slide pin all appear to have their correct rounded ends on them. Those are the ones that are generally polished off flat in a refinish as they stnd a bit proud of the sideplate surface when assembled.
The hammer pivot is a bit lower than the other two and sometimes/usually the left sideplate can be carefully polished without touching it's rounded end. That's if the sideplate polishing doesn't need to go to far.

Those pins can be removed for refinishing, but the trigger and hammer pivot pins are usually staked into place quite severely and don't want to come out w/o a fight.
The rebound slide pin generally spins out easily for you.
You need to make a small hollow nose spanner for the different pins to remove them.

Also the cylinder stop is usually punch out/removed in aa restoration type refinish so the side can be properly polished w/o it being in the way. The polishing grit lines need to sweep through that area of it and the trigger pin.
The Stop is rivited in place from the inside. Re-installed by re-riviting back into place, and that re-installation generally leaves a tell-tale clue that the part has been removed/re-installed, and that a very good restoration/refinish has been done.
It takes a tear-down of the pistol to see that feature though. Not a lot of chance that a buyer will be given a welcome look inside to see if it has been done.

Goony · #11 03-15-2024, 10:53 AM

My 1917 exhibits what I'd consider to be a commercial grade finish, right down to the aforementioned polished screw heads, and I have no reason to suppose that it's been "massaged".

gwpercle · #12 03-15-2024, 11:02 AM

Sweet !
That one could get by on ... looks alone !
One of the most handsome hanguns to ever be produced !
I would call this one a ... Keeper !!!
Gary

Slufstuff · #13 03-15-2024, 04:28 PM

A close up sharp focus picture of the inspectors mark will probably tell a lot. Nice Model 1917 in any event.

GaryinOKC · #14 03-15-2024, 04:33 PM

The more I look at it the more it may be right.

GaryinOKC · #15 03-15-2024, 04:34 PM

last couple

pmanton · #16 03-15-2024, 05:15 PM

I am seriously jealous. :-)

Muley Gil · #17 03-15-2024, 06:18 PM

Looks O-riginal to me.

JH1951 · #18 03-15-2024, 10:43 PM

Based on those later pictures, there is little doubt in my mind that it is 'right'. You are fortunate to have gotten it. It looks quite, quite nice.
I would be pleased to have it in my stable.

smoothshooter · #19 03-16-2024, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisgah

Mine has an iron-clad provenance. It was issued brand-new to my grandfather, who later bought it from the armory at Camp Dodge, Iowa, when he mustered out of the Medical Corps in 1919, and I know the history of it for every day since. It served as security in the drawer of the desk in his medical office for 62 years. I know it is original -- but 2 "experts" have judged it a refinish until its documented history was revealed.

Sometimes "too good to be true"... isn't.

My grandfather did basic training at Camp Dodge, Iowa before going to France for WW I. He said the Army rushed them through in about 6 weeks, and they spent most of their time shooting on the rifle and pistol ranges. If I remember correctly he was in France about 4 months after starting Basic Training, maybe a little less.
As a side note, like another WW I veteran in our family, he came back with a lifelong hatred of the British.

BC38 · #20 03-16-2024, 03:13 AM

LORDY that one is purdy. Probably one of the nicest I have seen either here or in person. Almost too nice to shoot. Hope you take it to the range to ENJOY using it as intended!

JH1951 · #21 03-16-2024, 10:44 PM

Looked at it again ...... still impresses me!
As for shooting it, I'll offer my thoughts and YMMV.
If it hasn't been shot since it was issued, I wouldn't want to be the first now to break its record for going unshot all these decades. IMHO that adds to the value.
On the other hand, if it shows signs of having been shot a little, I would take it to the range tomorrow. Taking care of it during and after a range trip will help protect your investment and still give you a lot of fun as only a 1917 can. I certainly would not want to take a pristine piece and turn it into a 'shooter grade'. They don't make 'em anymore and there are fewer prime examples available every year (for whatever reason).
Either way, you are going to enjoy owning it.