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03-20-2024, 09:24 PM
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Model help please
New member , this is my first S and W . Long time gun collector. I'll start off by saying I had no idea how confusing s and w model ID could be! I took this gun on trade . I was told it was a model 10 but I don't think it is. The last patent date on the barrel is 2001 so it is newer than that . Hand ejector , 6 1/4 barrel , serial number 54xxx. No model number behind cylinder. Fixed sights , 38 s &w .
Any ideas on model ?
Is that trigger and hammer factory ?
Rough idea on value ?
Thanks for any assistance
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03-20-2024, 09:39 PM
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Model help please
Edited to add:
Caliber 38 s&w special
Serial number 54xxx (see last image posted)
Last edited by murphydog; 03-21-2024 at 02:50 AM.
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03-20-2024, 09:39 PM
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Welcome to the forum.
That’s an early 1900s .38 Military and Police Model. Built on the K frame and became the Model 10 in 1957. So I think you’re mis-reading the patent date or typed 2001 by mistake. It’s been reblued but not at the factory.
The hammer and trigger are factory but have a jeweled finish which was a popular aftermarket customization back in the day.
It has a round butt with post WWII factory Target square butt stocks adapted to fit.
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S&WCA #819
Last edited by Hondo44; 03-20-2024 at 09:42 PM.
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03-20-2024, 09:40 PM
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Remove the grips and give us the serial number from the bottom of the butt frame. Your .38 M&P was made before 1920. The serial number will help us narrow down the approximate manufacture date.
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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
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03-20-2024, 09:42 PM
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The trigger and hammer are factory but have been jeweled outside the factory; don't think the factory ever did that. The grips are much later than the gun and have been heavily modified. The caliber is 38 Special and the gun is from 1904 or so according to the Standard Catalog. Value, maybe $300-$400 where I shop. Someone who knows much more about these than I do will be along with more information. In the meantime, welcome to the Forum.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
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03-20-2024, 09:45 PM
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The trigger and hammer have been jeweled...The barrel at least is very, very early...The grips are for a square butt, but appear to have been modified to fit a round butt gun...Remove the grips and post a pic of the bottom of the grip frame showing the complete serial number...And where are you seeing a 2001 patent date?...
And welcome to the forum...  ...Ben
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03-20-2024, 09:45 PM
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I think Jeff is correct about the 1904 manufacture date if the original number you gave is the serial. That would make your gun a Model 1902. <br>
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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
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03-20-2024, 10:26 PM
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I'd bet 54xxx is the assembly number in the yoke cut and on the yoke. I'd also bet that the patent date is December 17, 01, which is 1901.
That fits with the round butt, the 6 1/2" barrel and the dual cartridge designations on the barrel. This is a Model of 1902, and a fairly early one I suspect. When we know the serial number, we can find out more about its likely ship date.
As others have said, the stocks are MUCH later and have been modified. The jeweling on the hammer and trigger are aftermarket modifications.
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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318
Last edited by JP@AK; 03-20-2024 at 10:28 PM.
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03-21-2024, 05:41 AM
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Ok guys here is the grips removed . Small shim in rear to fill in spot .
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03-21-2024, 08:21 AM
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That looks like a square butt that someone did a rebated back strap like the reg. police. I could, like in the past, be wrong. Regardless, someone put a lot of work into it to make it the way they wanted.
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03-21-2024, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired W4
That looks like a square butt that someone did a rebated back strap like the reg. police. I could, like in the past, be wrong. Regardless, someone put a lot of work into it to make it the way they wanted.
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I think it was a round butt that was modified. See the older pinned rebound spring.
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03-21-2024, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil
I think it was a round butt that was modified. See the older pinned rebound spring.
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I noticed the spring but failed to put it all together.
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03-21-2024, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired W4
That looks like a square butt that someone did a rebated back strap like the reg. police. I could, like in the past, be wrong. Regardless, someone put a lot of work into it to make it the way they wanted.
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Kinda why im questioning the model , the backstrap doesnt look like any pictures im seeing of original model 10
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03-21-2024, 08:51 AM
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Clearly a round butt, for all the reasons mentioned. But at that serial number, it could not be anything else. Square butts show up at about 58,000.
Whoever did all this was skilled. Interesting revolver.
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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318
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03-21-2024, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK
Clearly a round butt, for all the reasons mentioned. But at that serial number, it could not be anything else. Square butts show up at about 58,000.
Whoever did all this was skilled. Interesting revolver.
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Interesting yes but killed the value , stinks that it was ground down with no way to return to factory , kinda got taken on the trade now . Live and learn .
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03-21-2024, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadows2013
Kinda why im questioning the model , the backstrap doesnt look like any pictures im seeing of original model 10
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It is much too old to be any sort of Model 10. This revolver was made no later than about 1904. At the time, it was called a Model of 1902. The Model 10 did not exist for another 54 years (1958). Yours would be an early ancestor to the Model 10.
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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318
Last edited by JP@AK; 03-21-2024 at 09:01 AM.
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03-21-2024, 09:01 AM
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I appreciate all the help guys . I have a decent old colt collection but never got into smiths . Doing this little research has peaked my interest a bit . Might have to keep my eyes open for early smiths !
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03-21-2024, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadows2013
I appreciate all the help guys . I have a decent old colt collection but never got into smiths . Doing this little research has peaked my interest a bit . Might have to keep my eyes open for early smiths !
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Watch out. Old S&W's can be just as addicting as your old Colts. Maybe more so.
Welcome to the forum from Metro Atlanta.
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03-21-2024, 09:35 AM
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Those early K-frames are interesting old guns to me...Somebody took a lot of time and effort to individualize a gun for a specific taste, and I can at least applaud the effort...On the other hand I wish the unknown Smith-smith had chosen a more mundane example, and left this one intact for the future purists to admire...I have a few modified examples of otherwise collectible guns myself, but they still have their places in my accumulation... ...Ben
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