I need some help from the collective brain because this one is outside of my usual collector comfort zone.

The title said .22/32 hand ejector, but if you dug deeper into the pictures and one line in the attributes you found that the caliber was .32 Long. That didn’t quite smell right, so after some digging I convinced myself that it was really a .32 Regulation Police Target.

I threw a placeholder bid on it that was quite a bit lower than the last few K-32’s that I’ve seen for sale and just let it ride. Today I got the “You won” notification.

Did I identify this one correctly?

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SWCA #3942 / SWHF #988

I think we have a winner!......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Did you play the lottery too? What did it cost? Prying minds want to know!

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Yeah…that was my next question. I didn’t invest the time in price research that I probably should have. I based my price on what I was willing to pay for a .32 target using what I knew about K-32’s as a baseline. There’s a good chance that I overpaid (or bought too soon). The hammer price was $1300 before all the fees.

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SWCA #3942 / SWHF #988

As far as the price, meh, pretty scarce in the wild.

You don't see those come up for auction very often. Nice.

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That's just somebody talkin.

You stole it!!! Congrats! 😁😁

If you're having seconds thought, I'll take it off your hands and bail you out!

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"I also cook."

Sorry to disagree with the others, but you will likely have well over $1750 into it if you are having it shipped to your home, $1710 if onsite. That is over the top for a 22/32 HFT from the 1920s. Maybe will see that down the road. One example was sold for only one bid on Gunbroker recently and sold for $795 plus shipping and sales tax.

Just a moment...

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Gary, that was an HFT...The subject of this thread appears to be a .32 Regulation Police Target......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

I don't think you overpaid. There aren't many of those for sale, I've seen just one and bought it.

Is your SN on the list here:

The .32 HE 1st & 2nd Model Target Revolver Thread

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Thanks for that, as the auction house stated 22/32, I forgot to look for the pin, proving 32. Different animal there.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I need to receive it, validate the serial number, and get it lettered. If the serial number listed is correct (444863), I think it’s in a gap in the list.

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SWCA #3942 / SWHF #988

Looks pretty nice. I think you did OK, not spectacular, but OK.

Mine:

Attached Images

RH side.jpg (17.3 KB, 56 views)

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

Congratulations!
I was one one of the other bidders on that lot.
No hard feelings though, I picked up a really nice High-Standard .22 auto from 1952 (with factory box, paperwork, extra magazine) at a great price today.
We were both winners.
Best wishes,
Roger AKA Mr. Wonderful

Great catch! A scarce gun. As you can see they didn't ship in serial # order but these will give you an idea of when it shipped:

439785 shipped 1927 (Apr)
4417xx shipped 1926 (Sep)
449510 shipped 1927 (Feb)
449574 shipped 1926 (Sep)
456625 shipped 1927 (Apr)

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Great gun! I'm glad you got it. They are rare, probably much more so then prewar kitguns. You did very well!

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Randy
SWCA #2468 SWHF #346

nice. wish i had seen it.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

Thanks to all for the feedback and confirmation that I identified it correctly. I'll post more pictures and a range report when it arrives...

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SWCA #3942 / SWHF #988

I was watching that one. The title said 22/32 but the description stated caliber: 32 Long. The stocks are wrong for a 22/32 of that vintage I believe. Kind of a stupid mistake for a high end auction house.

Regardless, congrats on the win.

Why do you think the stocks are wrong for a 1927 gun? Mine, SN 439824, also shipped in 1927. Mine letters as having silver medallion stocks, and has silver medallion stocks on it, but I believe my letter to be in error as those weren't produced until 1930. I think mine should have the same stocks shown on the OPs.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Retired W4 said the stocks are wrong for a .22/32 of that vintage because the .22/32 came with the 2 screw extended target stocks as standard once again, after 1924, not the sq butt RP stocks.

And you’re correct, no medallions until about 1930.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks, makes sense. Somewhere here, maybe I can find it, is a thread about stocks for my RP target where folks agreed the letter had to be wrong but, as I remember it anyway, the thought at the time was that the letter should have specified non-medallion walnut stocks. Suppose we should check the invoice/shipping docs to know for sure.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

I seem to recall someone...maybe GLowe...posted that silver medallion stocks started showing up around 1928 and went through several iterations before being finalized around 1930. Maybe that was just for standard service grips...

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

First month or so there were gold medallions, recessed then flush, then finalized as flat flush silver medallions. I don’t have the change order dates in front of me right now.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

A quick clarification. Since this is a Regulation Police Target Model, it would be included in this thread.

The Regulation Police Target Revolver Thread

Both these threads are in the SWCA area of this forum, and only members of the collectors association will be able to reach them.

I follow and occasionally collect the .32 I-frame target revolvers, and agree that the OP's revolver is a fine specimen of the .32 RP Target. Once the serial number is confirmed, I will be happy to add it to the RP roster in the SWCA section.

Collectors believe that between 1917 and 1941 about 800 to 1000 .32 RP Targets were produced. Of these, about 60 are known to collectors. A similar number of surviving specimens are known from the First and Second Model .32 HE Targets produced between 1896 and 1917. A previously unknown specimen from either group emerges every year or two.

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David Wilson

Whoa! i guess I didn't watch close enough. I might have run Shotguncoach up in the bidding. The mislabeling was a red flag.

It’ll be a bit before I have this one in hand. My FFL is leaving for a trip to Hawaii and won’t be back until the 25th. For full disclosure, when I say “my FFL” it has a slightly different meaning. I’m part of the company and know that I could fill out the 4473 paperwork and transfer the item to myself, I just don’t like to. Both of us prefer to not do self-transfers and if one of us is traveling we simply wait until we’re both present. We’re both old enough that there is no such thing as a “rush transfer” for us anymore.

I promise that y’all will get pictures out the wazoo when I can.

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SWCA #3942 / SWHF #988

OK, not being a .22 caliber then we have determined that the OP's gun is not a .22/32 HFT. Since the .22/32's and the .32's both used the same serial number blocks I checked my database and the closest HFT that I have is 444752 and that gun shipped 10-7-1926. The next one listed is 454453 leaving a gap of almost 10,000 numbers so plenty of room for a run or two of the .32 HE's.

Initially begun in 1911 the HFT's came with a Paine front, U notch rear and the 2 screw over sized target stocks with gold medallions.

Regulation police style stocks with the gold medallions begun to appear in mid 1919 replacing the 2 screw style however by 1921 are replaced by the regulation police style without medallions.

On 8/29/1923 the engineering change to go to the Patridge front sight, square notch rear sight and the 2 screw extension target stocks again replace the smaller regulation police style stocks. Probably due to on hand inventory this does not become the norm until 1924.

Non medallion stocks remain until roughly 1930 at around 500,000 serial number when the silver medallions appear.

The only other issue that I am not clear on is when did the .32 caliber guns move from the I frame to the K frame. IIRC the K 22 was introduced in the 1930's so unless the K frame .32's came out earlier, would the OP's gun be an I frame?????

My short term memory is turning to mush due to my cancer drugs and I find that I have forgotten more than I remember.

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James Redfield
LM #497

This is mine, shipped July, 1927. As you can see, it has non-medallion grips, single screw and rebated frame of the RP. The grips are numbered to the revolver and the factory letter confirms this configuration. I hope this helps answer the question James posed.

Attached Images

	20240404_184932.jpg (284.5 KB, 25 views)
	20240404_184822.jpg (206.6 KB, 38 views)

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Randy
SWCA #2468 SWHF #346

[=JSR III;141971841]

The only other QUOTEissue that I am not clear on is when did the .32 caliber guns move from the I frame to the K frame. IIRC the K 22 was introduced in the 1930's so unless the K frame .32's came out earlier, would the OP's gun be an I frame?????
[/QUOTE]

The K frame 32 Long existed at the same time as the I frame 32 Long and the (later) J frame. The one the OP has would be an I frame. The K frame in 32 Long caliber came out first in the early 1900's. Rare but still available.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

And yes, I believe these were "the" .32 target guns until the appearance of the K-32. The first model K-32 appearing in 1936 (which I've never seen) and the K-32 Masterpiece in 1947.

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Randy
SWCA #2468 SWHF #346

Now that I'm convinced they all came with the two piece extension grip you show this one. Was the grip adapter on it when shipped from the factory and does that explain why the one screw grips were used? A very nice example by the way.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

No, I added the grip adapter as the grips are so small in my hand. It gives me a bit more to hang unto. Thank you for your compliment, I'm pleased to own it.

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Randy
SWCA #2468 SWHF #346

I asked Dr. Jinks why the factory went from the originally supplied 2 screw extension stocks to the regulation police style and was told that it was a cost saving measure so that multiple models could use the same stocks. Perhaps being near the end of WWI in late 1918 had some bearing on this as well. My belief is that the same shooters that had pushed for a larger .22 revolver and forced the design of the .22/32 did not care for the smaller regulation police style stocks and that the factory went back to the 2 screw targets to appease them. The other reason could have been that the single shot target guns used the 2 screw target stocks and shooters were used to them.

So does anyone have a date as to when S&W switched from the I frame to the K frame for the .32 HE guns? My books are buried so I'm asking the brain trust......

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James Redfield
LM #497

I’m curious about the sedation,, I mean serrated (grooved) triggers on the I Frame Targets. Did the I Frame Targets NOT receive the “upgrade” along with the K Frames,,, of the time?
Shout out to OP
Very Nice

In response to James, I think the I frame guns were perhaps overlapped with the K-32 from 1936 (when the K -32 was introduced) up to WW2. Post-war, only the K-32, as the masterpiece, was returned to production. Save the 196 RP targets with 4 inch barrels that were produced post-war to use up parts. That's my understanding, but with S&W...who knows for certain.

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Randy
SWCA #2468 SWHF #346

Lastly, all of my target sighted S&W's from the 20's have smooth triggers, regardless of frame size. Grooved triggers start showing up in my stuff in the mid-30's. My .22 Outdoorsmans, 38/44 Outdoorsman, RM's, etc. all have grooved triggers, as does the prewar kitgun. I imagine the move toward grooved triggers happened at various times for different frame sizes and models.

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Randy
SWCA #2468 SWHF #346

I had two of my lettered .38 M&P Targets handy, one from 1924 and the other 1927...Both have grooved triggers......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Go figure! Like I said, with S&W it is hard to make any definitive statement.

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Randy
SWCA #2468 SWHF #346

Just another tid bit to add to the collective knowledge. Although S&W may produce a given gun with a Paine front sight, the consumer could always order it with a Patridge. This goes for the stocks as well. Even when the factory switched to the smaller regulation police style a customer could order it with the 2 screw over sized targets.

This is why it is nearly impossible to look at any S&W and state for fact that it did or did not ship like others of the day.

S&W was a company built to make money and if a customer wanted something outside of the norm and was willing to pay any up charge, S&W would comply.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Hi David,

Something occurred to me and you probably know the answer. After 1917 when the RP Targets began, were there any more .32 Hand Ejector Target models made?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I don't believe S&W "switched" from the I to the K frame .32. They were made concurrently once the .32 K frame was introduced. Just like the .22/32 HFT was made concurrently with the K frame .22 once it was introduced in the early 1930s.

No doubt the buying public made a switch causing K frame .32s and .22 preference to cut into the sales of the I frames.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

• Serrated triggers and 6 groove grip straps order change August 14, 1923, on all K frame Target Model .38 & .32 Winchester revolvers.

• Oct 17, 1927: 6 groove Serrated Tangs on N frame Target guns began by engineering order. See grooved triggers for Ns below; fixed sighted K and N frames before WW II.

• Serrated trigger change order March 18, 1929 by F. H. Wesson on all .32-20, .38, and.44 Hand Ejectors, .265" wide; (note: #32846 shipped March 29, 1929 with a smooth trigger.) Change trigger pull on all HE Models to 3 ½-5 ½ lbs ordered May 1, 1929. So in 1931 I believe the K22 began life with serrated triggers.

• 1935 - Serrated trigger introduced on the I frame with the .22/32 Kit Gun & replaced the .22/32 Target Model smooth trigger.

• Late 1950 - Grooved triggers, already used on I frame target models since 1935, began a transition replacing smooth triggers as standard on all fixed sight I and J frames until completed ~mid-1951.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

• 2/11/1929 - Gold plate over brass recessed medallions ordered reinstated in wood stocks but with ‘convex’ stock circles;

3/18/29 - changed to flush mounted, flat gold plated;

April 1929 - finally changed to flush mounted, flat silver plated over brass thru WW II.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Not much different, but the notes I have stated chrome over brass in April 1929. Sure would like to see some of those 1929 gold medallions.

Medallions made prior to April, 1929 were reported to be flush mounted non-relieved, flat gold plated. Examples have been found, but would be rare. Changed to flush mounted, large flat chrome plated over brass – by an order dated Mar 18, 1929 saying "Changed to chrome plated April 1929 per F. H. Wesson. All walnut stocks from April on were convex until the introduction of Magna stocks. Large chrome medallion K stocks maybe only made for a few months for less than one year, 1930 and/or 1931 and serial numbers in the 610,000 – 612,000 range only. Very scarce.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Nice little revolver, I have one that was made in 1931, per factory letter, that is in the data base. These are accurate little pistols. My personal opinion when I am told I paid too much for something like this is to ask, are they making anymore? Buy when available if you afford it and don't look back. I bought a little 1903 Colt, like new with the box, paid at the upper level of what it is worth, was going to move it, then decided, I will never get the oppurtunity at another one this nice, so it goes into never sell group>

I think of the earliest RP models, both fixed sight and targets, as just the .32 HE Third model with square butts. But underneath the wood, the frames are all round butt, though with the characteristic step milled into the back strap. I suppose if someone wanted a RP Target with a round butt, he could order it without the defining RP stocks. But I think that would make it a special order RP rather than a late specimen of the Second Model target. I suppose one could also order an RP with large square butt (two-screw) stocks if they were preferred. But I don’t remember seeing an RP Target with either small round or large square stocks.

This is one of those situations where I think we can rely on the serial number breakpoint. A .32 HE Target with serial number below 258000—second model. Above 258000—Regulation Police.

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David Wilson

Exactly. I have never paid too much for a gun. If I own it, that means I wanted it and paid what I had to in order to put it in the safe. If I wanted a gun but didn’t get it in the rough and tumble of a negotiation or an auction, then I saved some money that can be applied to a future need-to-have. Next!

The “inherent value” delusion is just a way to preserve the option of intense regret whether you can get a gun or not. I don’t have enough minutes left in my entire life to burn a single one of them second guessing actions that accomplished my goal.

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David Wilson

This is a beautiful S&W,
and my eye always looks at (for) the LERK!

Ok...so I knew this one was going to be small, but I was still not prepared for just how tiny it really was. My wife's first reaction was "How cute! It's just a baby!"

Being me, I signed for it at noon and then drove directly to the range to try it out. The itty-bitty stocks were a bit of a challenge but once I figured out where to put my thumb it shot pretty well.

I'll take a bunch more pictures and send off for a letter tomorrow.

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SWCA #3942 / SWHF #988