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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 04-08-2024, 08:38 PM
paplinker paplinker is offline
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Default Pre 27 proud pins time frame

Well finally got my newly acquired pre 27 out for a range trip with a buddy of mine from the forum.

We both brought 3 1/2 inch guns.

Mine S 123475 had proud pins. 10/54

My buddys S 138XXX had flush pins. 12/56

This made me curious what time frame the change was starting.

Looking at about a dozen or so on auction sites I found numbers all over the place. Even three five digit numbers with flush pins.

Was the change over slow?

Is it possible some of these early guns were refinished by the factory later because of some having the rash and were returned as flush pin models?
Was the rash covered under warranty?

Luckily mine was spared the rash but I have looked at a couple with it.

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Old 04-08-2024, 09:32 PM
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My 3 1/2" is S1252xx dated January 1955 per letter. Flush pins with sight rash. Unfortunate as the rest of the gun is perfect.
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Old 04-08-2024, 10:30 PM
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Pardon my ignorance, but is "sight rash" the "white-ish"corrosion (or whatever) between the sight base and the rib (which I'm told was caused by bluing the barrels with the sight base in place---leaving no way to remove bluing salts which found their way in between the two surfaces?

If so, I had a .44 H.E. 4th with that affliction which was corrected with a liberal dose of CorrosionX.

Ralph Tremaine

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Old 04-08-2024, 11:29 PM
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My nickel 357 Magnum shipped June of 1955 and has proud pins. I was also wondering what the rash was!
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Old 04-09-2024, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paplinker View Post
Well finally got my newly acquired pre 27 out for a range trip with a buddy of mine from the forum.

We both brought 3 1/2 inch guns.

Mine S 123475 had proud pins. 10/54

My buddys S 138XXX had flush pins. 12/56

This made me curious what time frame the change was starting.

Looking at about a dozen or so on auction sites I found numbers all over the place. Even three five digit numbers with flush pins.

Was the change over slow?

Is it possible some of these early guns were refinished by the factory later because of some having the rash and were returned as flush pin models?
Was the rash covered under warranty?

Luckily mine was spared the rash but I have looked at a couple with it.
Is there any difference at all in your front sights other than the pins, such as one having a red ramp?
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Old 04-09-2024, 12:40 AM
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Is there any difference at all in your front sights other than the pins, such as one having a red ramp?
No difference if I recall correctly. Both black ramp.

Just found another 5 digit pre 27 with flush pins,no rash.
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Old 04-09-2024, 01:12 AM
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I have never been able to make sense of when blued 357s stopped or started shipping with proud front sight pins. From the sample in my collection, they seem to be all over the map. Probably it depended on who was running the polishing wheel...

Note - the nickel guns had proud pins well into the 27-2 era, as the blued sight bases were attached after the gun was nickeled.

Regardless of when they stopped - I think the proud pins are way cool...

Rich:

Let's see a photo of your shooter with the proud pins... please.
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Old 04-09-2024, 08:07 AM
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I remember reading here that during the post war time frame it all depended on who was on the polishing wheel when it came to proud or not proud, and not a standing order at the factory. At least I think I remember reading that.

In the mean time, how about some K22 proud pins from days past?
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Old 04-09-2024, 08:23 AM
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"Note - the nickel guns had proud pins well into the 27-2 era, as the blued sight bases were attached after the gun was nickeled."

Well I guess that does make sense.
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Old 04-09-2024, 09:02 AM
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Here's my first year (1954, S114481) Highway Patrolman...it has flush sight pins and a case of the rash! I thought it was mostly HPs that had the bluing salts issue, but obviously this thread proves that other early .357 Magnums had the same problem. Too bad since my HP is in otherwise excellent condition. I've never been able to figure out who determined whether proud sight pins were left alone or ground flush.
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Old 04-09-2024, 08:44 PM
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Default The other gun mentioned in the OP.

Two pics with different lighting to show the front sight and the rash. In the darker pic it looks like an attempt was made to try a repair.
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Old 04-10-2024, 10:55 AM
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If those early 357's were blued with the Carbona Blue (American Gas Furnace) method as so frequently mentioned.
How could 'bluing salts' be the cause of the corrosion inbetw the bbl rib and the sight ramp?

I always figured it was an issue with hot salt bluing and the bluing salt soln getting in there and not being rinsed out properly.
It's always been a problem when doing hot salt bluing on mechanically attached parts (bbl'd recv's for example).
But that wouldn't jive with the common pronouncement that the Carbonia Blue method was used on those earlier guns.

Carbonia Blue is a high heat (850F), pulverised bone charcoal process with the charcoal carrying a very small amt of the propretary Carbona Oil soaked into it to create the smoke inside the rotating furnace drum.
No liquid immersion of the part(s).

If when removing the ramp from the bbl rib, the area is still 'In the White',,then I suspect the parts were assembled and Hot Salt Blued together.
The assembly of the 2 parts masks the hidden area from being blued. It doesn't take much more than that to do it.

If the area is blued,,then either the parts were separate when H/S Blued and then assembled,,OR the assembled bbl w/sight may have been Carbona Blue. Being a high heat bluing, the parts would have changed color inspite of being in contact with each other.

Just some thoughts...
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Old 04-10-2024, 11:42 AM
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Some old pictures (circa 1950 or 1960?) of the S&W factory show men sitting at their own individual workbenches each appearing to be assembling a revolver.

So was that how it was done? Individual workers collecting the necessary parts then hand assembling complete revolvers? It doesn't seem like this would be something that would be done on an assembly line. Was that true then and is it true now?

If that was the way it was done, you can see why there would be variations depending on each worker's preferences.
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Old 04-10-2024, 11:55 AM
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Proud sight pins on my 1953.
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Old 04-10-2024, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired W4 View Post
I remember reading here that during the post war time frame it all depended on who was on the polishing wheel when it came to proud or not proud, and not a standing order at the factory. At least I think I remember reading that.

In the mean time, how about some K22 proud pins from days past?
It seems that to polish a proud pin flat it would take all the bluing off the end before it was flush.

I thought that proud pins meant the front sight was put on after the bbl was blued. Thats why early nickel guns are proud pin as the sight was not nickel.

Later guns including nickel I thought were made, bbl and sight as one.

But I really am guessing.
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Old 04-10-2024, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paplinker View Post
It seems that to polish a proud pin flat it would take all the bluing off the end before it was flush.

I thought that proud pins meant the front sight was put on after the bbl was blued. Thats why early nickel guns are proud pin as the sight was not nickel.

Later guns including nickel I thought were made, bbl and sight as one.

But I really am guessing.
I have been wrong before.
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Old 04-11-2024, 07:47 AM
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Interesting topic. I can add:

5" #S81050, January, 1951 - polished flat pins - no rash, original finish
5" #S81051, February, 1951 - polished flat pins - no rash, original finish
3.5" #S83348, Sept, 1951 - proud pins
3.5" #S96163, July, 1953 - proud pins
6" #S131876, March, 1955 - proud pins
6.5" #S135222, March, 1955 - proud pins
8 3/8" #S162355, January, 1956 - polished flat pins - no rash, original finish
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