Hello everyone! I'm on here just looking for opinions. I recently acquired a .44 Hand Ejector Target SN 7xxx. The gun letters as having been shipped to Mexico in 1913 which would put it there during the revolution, and was the only one in the shipment. I'm currently waiting on a deep dive from the historical foundation to see what, if anything, turns up.

My question is, and I realize that this all in personal preference, should I have this gun restored and would it be worth it in terms of value overall?

The gun is in fairly rough, but functional condition with mismatched grips. The target sight leaf, cylinder, and barrel are all numbered to the frame.

I myself am leaning heavily towards having the gun restored if I can find a reputable place that I could trust to do quality work. On that note, who would you suggest? I've been thinking about contacting Turnbull to see if they'd be willing to take on the project, but I'd like to hear what others have to say.

Thank you in advance!

Attached Images

	20240322_212150.jpg (202.6 KB, 251 views)
	20240322_212225.jpg (194.3 KB, 199 views)

I did have them “restore” a pre war magnum I had that was poorly refinished. And had a terrible electro penciled number in side plate and a few other poor attributes due to the poor refinish. I proceeded after letter indicated no notable provenance.

I had new markings cut and front sights changed to original configuration. Then polished and charcoal blued.

I knew the color of Turnbulls Charcoal bluing would not mimic original S&W carbonia blue. I was ok with this. Slightly different was fine by me.

I also added some Persinger Mammoth grips.

This was an expensive project that took a little over 2 years.
2021-2023

This pretty shooter if sold would recover only a small fraction of what I spent on it. I’ve instructed my sons to drop this one in my casket when that time comes and sell the rest.

I don’t know if Turnbull will strip nickel or renickle if that’s your choosing. You’ll need to inquire.

There msy be other companies that can restore S&W.

It’s really not a wise investment. And once you refinish / restore it then has zero original finish. Albeit it may be beautiful.


I did mine because it was poorly refinished and I could not stand to look at the electro penciled number. But it was really not a wise or prudent expenditure of money.

The general consensus here most likely is simply seek a better specimen. But it’s your gun and your choice. Plan to spend at least $3.5k and likely more. And of course the wait will be counted in years.

JMHO, if that nickel finish is original, I would not refinish. However, if it has already been refinished, refinish it if you want realizing that you won't get a fraction of your money back. My default position on my own guns... leave them as they are but clean and kill the rust via something like Ed's Red or ATF/acetone mixture.

__________________
Randy
Provenance nerd

From a collector’s viewpoint, a refinished revolver (or anything else) has ZERO% original finish and will be valued by a collector, accordingly.

mchon has done a beautiful job on that revolver and I would cheerfully rob his grave to acquire it!

In your instance, your revolver has some provenance so, consider that before you go willy nilly into a refinish.

Me? I have rebuilt multiple Model 1917 revolvers into 4” barreled ones, I converted a Model 28-2 into a 4”, 45 ACP and I salvaged a chopped Model 25-2. Life is too sort to carry an ugly, non historical, revolver!

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with everything mchom and others posted above.

And the badly rounded edges on your cyl flutes and other places will need micro welding to put metal back on where it's been so badly buffed.

There's also a problem that would make your gun even more expensive to restore.

I presume your letter states that it's a factory target model. But the front sight blade is not the factory target sight, it's a fixed front sight blade. The barrel may have been replaced; you say the barrel serial number in the extractor shroud matches the number on the cylinder and rear sight leaf. How about on the butt? And does the font/style of the numbers match the other locations or possibly re-stamped on a replacement barrel? Can you post pictures?

If the gun was originally blue, there should be a tiny B in front of the barrel serial serial number. If no B then it was originally nickel.

There are a few excellent S&W restorers:

Ron's Gun Shop - 262-255-4920, Milwaukee, WI
A top restoration service that can also replicate, not reproduce, original S&W carbonia blue.
Ron's Gun Shop

Glenrock Blue Phone: 307-436-2330 Email: [email protected]
Contact Us | Glenrock Blue
Possibly the best bluing operation. Many top custom gunsmiths used them when they want the absolutely finest quality blue job. They offer a true mirror polish finish.
“I've had three guns refinished by this firm in Glenrock WY. They've done excellent work, but as someone noted, you get what you pay for and their top tier re-blue is spendy!"

Precision Bluing | America's #1 Bluing Company!
https://precisionbluing.com/

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

For what it's worth, I do honestly believe the gun has, at somepoint in the past 111 years, been refinished. I think this because the edges of the side plate show rounding/softening like you'll often see in repolished/refinished guns.

What is really pushing me to refinish the gun however, is the unfortunate fact that is been drilled and tapped for a scope mount at some point as well.

I only gave $400 for it on an online auction with two blurry pictures and a description of "S&W 44, Magnum?"

I really appreciate all the feedback and opinins so far!

I will gladly give you $600.00 so it will not be “restored”!

I say this because while I do see a couple of flattened pins, the sideplate seam is not all that bad, for a Mexican revolver.

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Lol a tempting offer but this one is Triple Lock #4 for me and one that I plan to keep and pass on to my boys who are currently 4 and 5 years old respectively.

Looks like it already has been mercilessly buffed and refinished in the past. You won't hurt the value refinishing it, but you won't help it either. If you plan to leave it to your boys eventually, fine but I would get a S&W letter first so you will know if it originally had a shorter barrel and maybe even if it was blued.

__________________
S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

To answer Hondo44s questions:

Please see attached picture.

There is no B in front of the serial on the barrel.

The fonts of the previously mentioned serial numbers all generally match other than the obvious size differences. Including on the butt of the frame.

The front sight has a chip taken out of it, it may have been replaced I honestly don't know for sure. There is a pin on the front sight base that is polished smooth to the surrounding metal that my other three fixed sight Triple locks do not have.

I could try to take some better pictures, but I'm limited by the capability of my phone.. I'll try to post some more later.

Attached Images

20240503_172743~3.jpg (84.9 KB, 107 views)

I like the letter.

So, the original front sight was a half moon, and the buyer needed something he could see so he modified it. Great! That proves he wanted to hit the thing at which he aimed!

It seems a perfect fit to me.

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

A few things here, one of them MAJOR.

1. Why so secretive? A serial number 7xxx does nothing to enhance knowledge in the community, and you also used a Sharpie to obliterate it on your letter.

2. The sights letter as is, suggesting the barrel is not replaced. A forged front sight and a Target rear sight—which is what you have. There is a serial number

3. The frame surrounding the cam/middle lock is not as uniform as I might expect of a revolver that was not refinished, and so I would not refinish again, even if an old refinish, as you would lose even more detail.

4. Is there a star after the serial number on the butt, indicating a return to the factory? Also, is there a serial number that matches the one on the butt inside the recessed area that houses the ejector rod on the barrel? If so, the barrel is unlikely to be a later replacement.

5. The “MADE IN U.S.A.” does not look like that applied by Smith & Wesson, and this being applied circa 1923 or later, ten years or more after your revolver shipped. I imagine that was done in Mexico.

6. And the major one. Measure, and measure again, the barrel.. If it truly is 6”, it’s the only one I’ve ever seen in that barrel length. This would your revolver be incredibly rare. The literature states the Triple Lock revolver was available in 4”, 5”, 6”, and 6 1/2” barrel lengths. However, we know 7 1/2” revolvers were produced. Unless anyone can prove otherwise, as far as I know, despite stating in the literature the 6” barrel length was available, I don’t know if one has ever actually surfaced. Which means you either have an incredibly rare revolver, or a factory letter with a typo. If anyone knows of an actual Triple Lock revolver that letters as truly 6”, and they have this revolver in hand to prove the letter does not contain a misprint, please (gladly) dispute this statement.

Thx for showing the letter. That’s the first target TL I’ve ever seen with a factory authenticated forged front round sight. That means it’s forged with the barrel and one piece with the barrel. It would be too low for use with the adjustable rear sight so the gun would shoot high. But since it’s pinned in place, it’s been replaced. Perhaps with a taller 1/2 round sight at the factory for just that reason; so it wouldn’t shoot high.

The factory target front sight is a hook and a real holster ripper so I understand the special order for a round sight. But from the wear on the gun it must have worn down too low, hence the notch chiseled into it to make it taller!

TL target sights are serial numbered on the front sight blade, underside of rear sight, and rear sight blade; all three parts must be removed to see the serial numbers.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Barrel looks 6-1/2” to me from the pictures, but I hope I’m wrong, for your sake. Incredibly cool revolver…..and already what I would consider a rarity, lettering as a fixed front sight and adjustable rear sight gun. Thank you for posting this neat gun!

__________________
A Future and A Hope.

Please see pictures posted below. The gun does show a "B" in front of the serial on the barrel shroud and on the backside of the yoke. I find this interesting because the gun just lettered as factory nickle.

Thoughts?

Attached Images

	20240503_230926.jpg (169.2 KB, 298 views)
	20240503_231032.jpg (48.3 KB, 62 views)
	20240503_231147.jpg (101.2 KB, 101 views)
	20240503_231255.jpg (61.0 KB, 64 views)
	20240503_231313.jpg (60.4 KB, 60 views)

Here's a few more

Attached Images

	20240503_231417.jpg (128.9 KB, 51 views)
	20240503_231722.jpg (149.4 KB, 47 views)
	20240503_231748.jpg (157.0 KB, 50 views)
	20240503_232023.jpg (126.4 KB, 81 views)
	20240503_232739.jpg (43.5 KB, 40 views)

Interesting letter. You need to measure the barrel length.

__________________
S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

Cool gun. It has 1930s decade service-style stocks that are unusual, with small medallions. Perhaps they are aftermarket or custom (1920 decade with added medallions)?

Turnbull has stated they no longer accept S & W revolvers for restoration.

This is the typical dilemma of keeping a worn historical gun original vs. restoring it to something approaching original. My opinion is you have to decide whether a restoration is what you seek; you may want to get quotes for the cost of the work, but rest assured it will be expensive, and you will likely not recoup the cost in a sale for many years, if ever.

Have you shot it? If it works well that may nudge you in the direction of keeping it as is. Good luck in your decision.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

__________________
Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

As expected, 6 1/2”. Or close to it. The letter is in error and should read 6 1/2”. And, it still remains, I don’t think a Triple Lock revolver with an original 6” barrel has ever surfaced.

That is a very cool gun from a historic time and the wear is part of its history. Not much to be gained by another refinish except to make it shiny.
It doesn't matter who does your refinish, it is still going to look like a refinished gun. I vote to leave it as is.

I called Turnbull many years ago about a 2nd Model HE Target that needed mechanical work and a refinish. Spoke to their lead guy and explained what I needed. With a heavy dose of contempt/disdain he replied "we don't work on them guns". Alrighty then.

The explanation I heard was - too many complex curves and surfaces to get right in polishing, and therefore not doable at any reasonable cost. Now if you offered them 3-4 times what they charge for a gun that they will restore, like an SAA or 1911...

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

After considering everyone's input I've decided to just have the gun professionally cleaned and have a mechanical restoration performed where needed. I greatly appreciate all of the input from everyone! I also greatly appreciate how amicable everyone has been in thier replies. Thank you all so much! Final question, who would you recommend to have go over the internals of this gun?

I would recommend (drumroll)…YOU!

Why pay someone to do that? Just remove the sideplate and see what you have. It might not be that dirty inside. You can just spray copiously with Kroil and let it drip out and then dab with rags and it then should be no dirtier than had you fired it a few times. You can further disassemble, if desired, but the risk vs reward isn’t worth it.

Paying someone else to clean thoroughly…cost vs reward…isn’t worth it.

If you have the resources and knowledge to remove the sideplate and inspect/service the internals then go for it. I don't, so I take my old irons and rescues to Nelson Ford, "The Gunsmith" in Phoenix AZ. He de-gunked and serviced my well-worn El Paso TL, pictured here:
Gila's El Paso TL 13823.jpg TL 1.jpg TL 3.jpg TL 4.jpg

__________________
Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat

Below are pictures of mine (before & after) which is a different situation than yours. Mine is a later serial number and probably of less provenance than yours. It is an original nickel finish and was in rough condition with rust and pitting. I chose to clean it up and save as much of the original finish as possible.

It is your choice, but I would choose to leave it as is. In my eyes, it tells a story that would be lost if refinished.

Attached Images

	516[1].jpg (255.8 KB, 10 views)
	516_3[1].jpg (257.9 KB, 12 views)
	100_4354[1].jpg (68.8 KB, 11 views)
	100_4356[1].jpg (79.4 KB, 11 views)

If this one pic doesn't
show you that the gun had a loosing battle with a buffer at some point in it's life, then I wouldn't know how else to explian it.



Yes it could be brought back to factory condition.
It's one of those that you could measure the difference in some specs betw an orig and this one when you were done.

Turnbull has always been cold toward DA revolver restoration work as it just doesn't generate any profit from their standpoint.
Not when I worked there in the prior century,,not now.
Just always been his 'business model'. I think one of his daughters runs the biz now. FWIW.
SAA's and 1911's are a quick polish project. DA revolvers are not. They are difficult to get correct. As are some other firearms.
I ended up doing a swiss cheesed Mannlicher Schoenauer for a customer after he went to DT and got turned away with the words: We are a Cadillac restoration shop,,we don't work on Chevys.

Oh well everyone has their own way of doing things.

I'd leave the TL as-is for now other than a good cleaning inside and any repair needed to mechanicly put it into shooting shape.
Use it, enjoy it.
You can always decide later if the bug bites you and you want to get it 'restored'.
Most don't always do this stuff for profit cause most times it's a loosing bet anyway.
Kind of like buying a boat.