I read the thread on finding the model number for a revolver that doesn't have it inside the yoke. I'm guessing it's a model 14 but not sure.

Here is my info:

type: hand ejector
serial number: K 109xxx
S/N on the front gripstrap: no
right side of barrel: "38 S&W SPECIAL CTG"
left side of barrel: "SMITH & WESSON"
barrel length: 6 in
sights: adjustable
strain screw: yes
butt swivel: no
lanyard ring: no
screws: 5 (4 plus 1 trigger guard screw)
see images for numbers on frame under yoke

The threaded part of the ejector rod has broken off inside the cylinder. Any ideas on how to extract it?

Thanks

Attached Images

	frame under yoke cropped.jpg (15.5 KB, 142 views)
	frame under yoke.jpg (105.8 KB, 147 views)
	butt.jpg (32.7 KB, 152 views)
	full gun right side.jpg (98.0 KB, 201 views)
	barrel bottom side.jpg (82.0 KB, 143 views)

I'm not an expert, but I am pretty sure that revolver is a pre-14/K38. Great shooters. I have a later one and it makes me look like a good shot. Someone will come along and give you a more nuanced answer soon.

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NHI, 10-8.

Welcome and thank you for providing excellent ID information!

This is a K-38 Masterpiece from 1951. After 1957 it was also called the model 14 but this one pre-dates model number assignments.

You should see the 97939 stamped on the lower side of the grip frame and the yoke arm, indicating these parts were fitted together at the factory and are all original to the gun.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

It is a K-38 Masterpiece. Too early (1950-51) to have a model number, that did not happen until the late 1950s. No suggestions about the extractor knob without looking at it.

I'm for sure going to need a replacement extractor rod and maybe some other parts. Would parts for a model 14 be interchangeable with this K-38?

Ralf Walt

As others have said, you have a K-38 Masterpiece (no model number). At that serial number it most likely left the factory in 1951.

As for the replacement extractor rod, you need one from any postwar K-38 up to and including a Model 14. However, the rod from a Model 14-1 or later will not work, because the threads were changed in 1959, with the introduction of the Model 14-1.

You should check with Numrich or Jack First. One or both will probably have that part.

As for "other parts," it depends on what parts you are talking about.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Thanks for noting the changes within the same model. That helps.

Tell us more (or better yet, show us pictures) of this ejector rod situation.There are also a couple of springs as well as the outer and inner portion of the rod. As has been mentioned, the part of the rod that actually screws in is threaded in the opposite direction from the later ones, so it's vital that you know just what parts to get.
And welcome to the S&W Forum and Insane Asylum. Dealing with this first Smith and getting it repaired properly will be a good choice to start you down the road to join us crazies where we live!
Green Frog

The ejector rod (and associated parts) from most K frames (4" barrel or longer) from circa 1947 to 1959 will work.
Models 10, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and all of their pre-model numbered counterparts.
.38 Military & Police
.38 Masterpiece
.38 Target Masterpiece
.32 Masterpiece
.22 Masterpiece
.22 Target Masterpiece

If you can't find what you need, PM me and I'll check my stash.

As for removing the broken shaft, I would try gently with a screw extractor first. Any machinist or gunsmith should be able to do it easily.

It's conventional right hand threads, so "lefty loosy" to remove.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

The rod is threaded into the extractor/ejector star, as others have said your year rod/star is conventional threads, “lefty loosy”. The star, center rod, and associated springs should all fall out of the cylinder since the rod is broken.

The fact that it is broken off does not bode well for the star. If there is any chance of salvaging the star it needs to be removed with an exacter bit (I would guess 50/50 chance) or a left handed drill bit smaller than the minor of the rod thread diameter. The bit will try to unscrew the broken piece while cutting. A “normal” right hand twist drill bit will not work, it will tighten the broken piece while drilling. This operation needs to be precise, a good drill press or milling machine with extrator star securely fixtured.

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SWCA #3929, SWHF #1010

Well, here's the long version. When I received the gun there was heavy rust on the extractor rod at the front of the cylinder. Don't know why it would rust so badly there when there isn't any rust anywhere else. Powder residue? I used rust remover on it and as you can see it also removed, as expected, the bluing. There are gouge marks in the extractor rod probably from pliers while trying to unscrew it. I'm guessing that's when it snapped off. So a portion of the extractor rod is still screwed into the extractor inside the cylinder.

The center pin should be removable but it's also rusted inside the extractor and won't budge. I didn't want to use the same rust remover solution as before because I know it'll remove the bluing on the cylinder. I've been using penetrating oil hoping it may be enough to eventually free it up.

The extractor (star) will move back and forth within the cylinder but when I try to remove it from the cylinder it won't come out. As a last resort I could cut it off though I was hoping to salvage it.

I'm having trouble finding the correct parts diagram for this gun. The ones I've find online are for the later model 14's. Some include a gas ring (5030) while other diagrams don't. I don't know if mine has a gas ring or not.

Attached Images

	extractor 1.jpg (25.5 KB, 56 views)
	extractor 2.jpg (35.9 KB, 77 views)
	front of cylinder.jpg (40.2 KB, 73 views)
	center pin.jpg (21.5 KB, 71 views)
	star.jpg (51.7 KB, 74 views)

Let me suggest you soak the assembly in Kroil---and by soak, I mean submerge the entire assembly. Squirting a few drops into the hole comes under the heading of "fun for the feeble minded"---don't bother.

And "soak" means a looooooooong time---days if need be. Try removing whatever after a day. If nothing seems inclined to move, keep on keeping on!

"Some's good, more's better, and too much is just right!"

And should you come to find out who's responsible for this mess, do the world a favor, and do what you think is appropriate---a good dose of clod repellent perhaps.

Ralph Tremaine

I have found pipe cleaners are often good in these situations. Getting into small places to scrub clean without any abrasive.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I'm going with the soaking idea for a while. I know it takes time. Expecting the center pin to free up eventually. Once it's out I'll try to extract the broken off piece of extractor rod. If that fails (probably will) I should be able to replace with a new extractor and extractor rod, right? So long as the cylinder is not damaged.

If you don't have a soaking quantity of penetrating oil, you can make some inexpensively by making a 50-50 solution of auto transmission fluid and acetone or mineral spirits. Put the parts and solution in a sealable chemical-resistant container like a paint can so the aromatics don't evaporate. Then leave them there for a week or so.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

If you have to replace the extractor itself, remember that the cylinder ratchet is part of it and you may screw up the timing....

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

The lower half of the extractor rod should come out. Sometimes the last 1/4" of travel is sticky. Just keep working it back and forth, and it should come out. Don't twist it - just keep working it. There is probably some rust or other residue on the end. Don't cut it.

Mike Priwer

"extractor rod"

Now there's an interesting term! You'd think a "hand ejector" would have an ejector rod.

Some wise soul needs to explain this---slowly and carefully.

Ralph Tremaine

OK, I will bite.

Page 52 of Kuhnhausen 5th edition shop manual:
“Historical note: Although S&W swing-out cylinder revolvers have been called Hand Ejectors by the factory since introduction- factory parts listings list the hand ejecting rod as an extractor rod. Revolversmiths tend to think of this part based on function- i.e., as an extractor/ejector rod and thus use the terms extractor rod and ejector rod interchangeably. Purists are forewarned that extractor is used in the text of this manual.”

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SWCA #3929, SWHF #1010

An extractor removes (extracts) the casing from the chamber. An ejector is generally a separate part that propels the case away from the gun after the case has been extracted from the chamber by the extractor. For a revolver, it is seems more correct to call the rod and cylinder star as extractor components as there is really no separate ejector other than gravity. Of course, for semiauto pistols and most rifles and shotguns, there are clearly both extractors and ejectors present.

Here are a couple pictures of the cylinder parts from K80333, a gun that is identical to yours. The first picture shows the upper half of the extractor rod, the center pin, and the rear face of cylinder.



On the left is the extractor rod. On the threaded end, you can see how much metal is trapped in the lower half of the rod. It's 5/8" total, from its end to the shoulder on the rod. Right now, you can't get to it, because the center pin is in the way.

The element in the middle of the picture is the center pin. You'll notice the ring on it, which serves two purposes. First it limits the downward travel of the center pin, and second it acts as a base for the spring that is around the center pin. That spring is compressed by the end of the top half of the extractor rod, causing the pin to move downward to retain the cylinder when it is closed. Right now, the ring and that spring are preventing you from pulling the center pin out of the bottom half of the extractor rod, because the spring is being compressed by the broken end of the top half of the extractor rod, and the ring.

The next picture is a closeup of the extractor star.



You can see the two red lines going into the spanner slots on the center piece of the extractor star. That center piece unscrews, using a small spanner wrench (two spanner pins go into those two slots) . It has a standard right-hand thread, so it loosens to the left.

If you can get it out, you might, or maybe not, be able to pull the center pin out of the lower half of the extractor star. If not, then the extractor star does come off the extractor rod. Gary Lowe had that center piece come loose, and when he removed it, the extractor star itself came off, either by unscrewing it, or by lifting it, from the extractor rod.

It's important that you get the lower half itself pulled through the bottom of the cylinder, so that you can work on it. There is a very small finger-like projection, that is fragile, and is located in the bottom of the cylinder. It's the positioning guide for the extractor lower rod. Don't break that finger!

If you are unable to make this work, in removing the center pin, for whatever reason, then I have one more suggestion.

If you can pull the center pin forward far enough, so the its internal spring is completely compressed, and then cut it off as close as possible to the top of the lower half of the extractor rod, you can get yourself some working room, to try to remove the broken end of the top half of the rod.

Hope some of this helps.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Thanks to all for your help. It's now in the soaking stage and I'll leave it alone for several days, maybe a week.

After that the first thing I'll attempt is just removing the extractor from the cylinder. I think the corrosion within the broken end has expanded the rod causing it to flare out a bit, just enough so I can't pull it out. Getting it out will give me room to work on it. Gotta be careful not to break that little finger.

Just salvaging the cylinder would be great since that's the only really expensive part. If the extractor and center pin are damaged they're less expensive.

Regarding the nomenclature I'm a newbie. I figured using the part names from the S&W diagrams would work. But then even S&W likes to change the names of things.

Ralf

One thing you can do once a day, take the cylinder out of whatever it's soaking in, let the excess liquid drip off, and then try pulling the extractor star and rod out of the bottom of the cylinder. This is nothing mechanical holding it in - only some oxidation or gun-powder debris etc around the upper circumference of the bottom half of the extractor rod. It will come off eventually if you periodically keep trying to pull it out.

Regards, Mike Priwer

After soaking I worked it in and out for a while and the extractor finally came out. I think it was more than just oxidation or powder debris. I curled some sandpaper and wrapped it around the top edge to remove some more corrosion. I also used a dental pick to clear corrosion from the long slot (keyway?) at the broken off end where the corrosion was not allowing the little finger (key?) to pass through.

So now at least the extractor is out of the cylinder. The center pin is still seized up inside. More soaking ahead for that.

Attached Images

	back of cylinder.jpg (71.5 KB, 29 views)
	center pin 1.jpg (76.6 KB, 28 views)
	center pin 2.jpg (66.5 KB, 32 views)

I really recommend the transmission fluid thinned with acetone bath for loosening stuff up. Another thing that will help is heat the rod assembly up to around 400f in your oven, then drop it back in your penetrating oil while it is still hot. After soaking another day or so get a piece of 1/4" or more thick brass or aluminum with a hole just larger than the center pin in it. With it sitting on the slightly open jaws of a vise you can slide the center pin over it and tap on the tip of the pin, then flip the assembly over over and tap the other way back and forth a bit, until it frees up and comes out. The piece inside the star has to move out towards the from star to shaft. You may need a small flat faced punch to tap it out. By tap I mean light blows with a small 4oz ball peen or tack hammer.

You really do need to salvage the star. First of all it is set up to time you cylinder correctly. Another can be set up to time right, but the star and the cylinder were match drilled for the 2 small alignment pins in cylinder. Even a star from another cylinder of the same vintage is very unlike to fit those pins perfectly. There are work around for that problem, but I prefer to avoid them.

The photo in that area is a bit blurry, but it appears the end of the center pin may be slightly mushroomed. Look at Mikepriwers photo and just above the spring There is a collar on the center pin and it must be hard against the threaded portion of the rod lift inside the star portion.

No model number. You have a Pre-14, known as a K38 Masterpiece. I will let one of the gunsmiths answer your other question.

Right, the center pin can't be removed until that broken part of the rod left inside is extracted. Very tough to get at without cutting and drilling the center pin out first.