Hello. I was recently gifted my deceased Grandfather’s off-duty revolver. He was on the Birmingham, AL police force some time ago. It is a 5-screw .38 special nickel plated revolver - stunning condition. Can you tell me what model it is and the year it was manufactured? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I hope I have provided enough photos to give you the insight needed.

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Hi Bama and welcome to the S&W Forum.

Your grandfather's revolver is a .38 Military & Police model from the late teens, maybe about 1917 or 1918.

The revolver is not in its original condition. The barrel has been shortened and a nickel finish has been applied by someone other than S&W. No doubt the barrel was cut to make it a better off-duty arm.

Now it is a family heirloom with very little monetary value on the market. Treasure it for what it is - a memento from your grandfather's LEO years.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

It was modified into exactly what he needed and thats what makes it the perfect, personal gift to you. Very nice! Shoot it and enjoy it, but stick with standard .38 special loads - no +P ammo! Do you know how he carried it? What stocks did he have on it?

Welcome to the Forum!

Todd

I really appreciate the excellent insight Jack - I can’t thank you enough for the information. Yes, I assumed it had been cut down and refinished. He also had his initials engraved on one side of the pistol. I am very proud of his service as a LEO, and will treasure the gun for the rest of my life. It will be passed along to my son at some point as a family heirloom. Lastly, I appreciate your service Jack. As the son of a veteran, I don’t take your sacrifice for granted one bit.

Hello Todd and thanks for your message, and service to our country! I have a handful of holsters in a box that I will be going through. I have three sets of grips that fit the gun. I assume the wood grips (very worn) with diamonds and some remaining checkering, are the originals. Oddly enough, he has a plastics set of faux stag/antler, AND a real mother of pearl set with carved longhorn steer with what appears to be red jewels for the eyes. I imagine the pearl grips may be worth more than the gun itself (from a monetary standpoint). I can try to post some pics this week if you’d like.

Welcome to the Forum.

What years did he work for B'ham PD? I worked for a department in Jefferson County also.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Something like this is priceless, even though it may not have a lot of collector value the heirloom value cannot be estimated. I've got my grandfather's old bug. He walked the beat back in the 30's-40's. It is an old S&W top break in 38 S&W caliber (shorter than .38 special). Someone, probably my grandfather shortened the barrel and cut the hammer off, I'm guessing so it wouldn't hang up coming out of wherever he had it hid. There is no finish left, it's all patina. I still run a few rounds through it occasionally. He got killed when I was eight years old. He was the only Paw Paw I had as my other grandfather died the year before I was born. He was one of the reasons I spent over 40 years as a LEO.

A classic “if this gun could talk” story.

I highly recommend documenting as much as you can with a PowerPoint or similar document. Even if you cannot validate it, the stories are as priceless as the revolver, and they fade with time.

Absolutely post more pics! The experts here can tell you if the wooden stocks are correct. The others sound like interesting options. Its pretty common to have a grip stash for various purposes/occasions. My dads 2 1/2" 19-4 came to me with rubber grips but I've also found correct era magnas and Safariland grips for it.

Todd

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! The MOP grips sound like those made by Wolf & Klar in Ft. Worth, Texas. They were a big distributor for S&W about 100 years ago. You are correct about their value if they are not chipped or broken. We would like to see some pictures when you can post them.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

What I was going to say. Wolf and Klar was, among its many other businesses (pawnshop, sporting goods, jewelry, etc.) the Fort Worth distributor for S&W. They often added that style of longhorn carved grips. They distributed lots of guns throughout the Southwest. I believe they were in business until around 50 years ago, right in the middle of downtown Fort Worth.

The Fort Worth historical association website provides quite a bit of general information about them.

That was my thought as well. Pics please!

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

And my thoughts too. I’ve seen one set of Wolf and Klar grips on a S&W that a late employer had in his collection. Very impressive.

BTW, Google search Wolf AND Klar, some interesting history out there.

Bama-69, I don’t know what kind of information you were expecting to get here, but I like you, came here 15+ years ago hoping for an answer to a question of mine. I have been here ever since, and it is my favorite place on the internet! The folks here are a wealth of information, and their knowledge, experience, expertise, and stories are second to none.

I personally love to see posts when someone is looking for information on a family heirloom, especially when they want it because they are proud of the service of their family member and want to learn as much as possible about it. And when you treasure it and want to pass it on to another family member, it’s fantastic!

Every now and then, we have someone come here looking for information because they want to sell their family heirloom. Don’t get me wrong, if they NEED the money, that’s one thing, but if they just don’t give a hoot about the heirloom, it’s very sad to me. Thanks so much for sharing your story, and please do show us some more pictures.
Larry

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Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

I hope you believe this gun is worth a million dollars. I have one that is. It is a Model 64 heavy barrel with Pachmayr grips that my uncle retired with in 1983. THE last gun that I would ever sell.

I'm in the same camp as crows (the post above mine).

The revolver in the picture posted below was given to me by my dad when I got back from my second year in SE Asia during the VN war. It belonged to my grandfather, who died a month before I went over for the first time. I remember him carrying it on excursions out to the desert when I was a kid.

It has an interesting story behind it. During the Great Depression, my grandfather owned a machine shop in North Hollywood, California. One day a man brought in a Model T that needed repairs and Grandfather fixed it for him. But the man was out of work and had no money to pay for the repairs. In lieu of payment, he gave this revolver to my grandfather.

Eventually, I lettered the revolver. It is a .38 M&P Target with a 6.5" barrel. It shipped to Honeyman Hardware in Portland, Oregon on April 6, 1908. It still wears its original stocks with the serial number written with a pencil on the inside of the right panel.


This one will remain in the family forever. My kids know the story and they will take care of it when I'm gone, I'm sure.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Hello again everyone and sorry for the late reply. As promised, here are some pics of the grips that came with my Grandfather’s off-duty revolver. I assume the wood grips are from the factory - I love the honest wear where my Grandfather’s index finger and thumb rested on the grips! The faux stag/antler grips are in good shape, and appear to be better quality that what you would get in a plastic set of grips today. The carved mother of pearl grips are missing their “ruby” eyes and do have a couple of small chips on the top of the backside. They are real mother of pearl though and I love them! My Grandmother’s name was Ruby - I wonder if that factored into my Grandfather purchasing them.

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I have a Wolf & Klar 38 Heavy Duty, and would kill for a set of Steer head stocks with ruby eyes. Big Larry

Not this revolver but others that were cut from 4" to 3"--does the one inch made a differences ?

Jack

I'm sure you've heard the comment 'What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas!'.

Well, what happens here in Portland stays in Portland. Your gun happened here in Portland. Honeyman Hardware building, still stands, and is about a mile east of us. To stop the enforcers from coming up to see you, get that target down here as soon as possible, and I'll get it back to where it started out.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Mike

No chance. Does it help matters that I took my B.S. studies in geology at Portland State University (50 years ago)? Not a foreign country to me, but you could not pay me enough to move back there from Alaska.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Ya'll keep the posts on the old stuff coming. I know I love it and many others do also. I posted earlier about Paw Paw's old bug. I did not post the reason he got it. He was a walking beat cop. He got into a shootout in downtown Hattiesburg,Ms. around 1937. He had walked up on a couple of brothers in the process of burglarizing a furniture store. Shots were fired. Paw Paw ran out of ammo. That's why he got a BUG later. No radios back then but Paw Paw blew his whistle and the red beacon on the tallest building in town came on. It was a signal for a beat cop to go to a call box and call the station. Paw Paw was not hit but an innocent bystander a couple of blocks away was hit and killed instantly. This was not known until about 30 minutes later after back up had arrived and the burglars subdued. The Grand Jury was was called out and the burglars were indicted that night. The Circuit Judge told the indicted burglars they could plead guilty to manslaughter or face "Old Sparky" (the local electric chair) at a trial. There were no public defenders back then. The electric chair was located on the top floor of the Forrest County Jail. They pled guilty and were on their way to serve a 20 year sentence at the Mississippi State Prison at Parchman the next morning. Fast forward: The brothers served every minute of their sentence and were paroled around 1957. One of them left the state. The other reproduced. I started as a LEO in 1969. I had many encounters with this man's children who apparently were no better than him. I retired 11 years ago and my fellow officers still on the job are still dealing with his grandchildren.

Old Sparky was (and still has the potential for being) a great deterrent to crime...Studies of those who were instantly rehabilitated by such devices show that the recidivism rate is under 1%......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Jack

That will do! I finished my B.S. in Mechanical Engineering at Washington University in St Louis (my hometown) in January of 1961, and went immediately to Northwestern for graduate work in Mechanical Engineering and Material Science. Finished my degree in the summer of 1963.

Honeyman Hardware ultimately occupied a whole square block, across the street from the main Post Office. It went out of business at least 30 years ago, and is now Honeyman Lofts. Parts of it are scheduled for demolition and reconstruction. They were a major arms distributor and retailer for many decades.

Regards, Mike

Yet another family heirloom is my father-in-law's 4" M&P. He bought it new in 1920, and carried it daily in the hip pocket of his "uniform" for 60+ years. As a dairy farmer, his "uniform" was bib overalls. He never said why he carried it, but he sure could shoot it.

I was visiting long before he became my father-in-law, and took advantage of the fact you could buy a gun in Georgia once you'd passed your 18th birthday. Georgia's just a hop, skip and a jump down the road from the farm, and I returned with a shiny new K-22----ready, willing and able to clean his clock in a shooting contest.

He held his gun all wrong, stood all wrong, and did everything else all wrong; but it turned out I was the one who got his clock cleaned. He just smiled.

It was several years later that I heard about being aware of an old man with a gun----because he probably knows how to use it. I'd already learned that lesson!

Ralph Tremaine