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10-13-2024, 07:56 AM
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Not our usual 1917
Sure would like to know the history on this one. It started life as a common military 1917 (SN 98896) and has the usual Springfield Armory stamps (eagle's head) on the cylinder and frame. Beyond those stamps there's not much left to confirm it as a 1917.
The barrel, probably a 1950 Army, has been shortened to four inches with a ramp front sight with Call gold bead and is stamped in the ejector shroud with the SN much as the factory would have done before 1957.
The butt has been rounded with the lanyard ring hole plugged and the SN stamped on the butt and on the side of the frame.
The hammer is an HBH from before WWII. A Wondersight peep sight has been installed.
The stocks are unmarked but were certainly completed by an accomplished stock maker. There is nothing on the inside of them to identify the maker.
The finish is a deep blue much like that on my factory finished ones from the late '50s/'60s. The large logo seems as crisp and sharp as those on factory finished guns.
I haven't shot it yet but the action is as tight as any I have and the peep sight and gold bead center as soon as the gun is pulled up to acquire a sight picture.
All in all, odd as it is, it's quite an incredible gun smithing project and I can't wait to shoot it. Maybe this week. If anyone has anything like it, or thoughts on how it came to be, or knows who the stock maker might be, please comment.
Jeff
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10-13-2024, 08:16 AM
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That is one very cool great looking piece! Whoever did the work on both the gun and stocks was a master. Have not seen as many of the older Smiths as most of the members on the Forum and am curious, are the three pins in the front sight unusual? It’s a beauty and one I would not pass on.
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10-13-2024, 08:20 AM
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Wow, just Wow !
I have never seen a Wonder Sight with a peep.
Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk
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Bruce
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10-13-2024, 08:25 AM
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.45 colt or .45 acp? No matter..would buy anyways!
Last edited by LittleAugieMo; 10-13-2024 at 08:26 AM.
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10-13-2024, 08:25 AM
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Very cool...and the work on the stocks is outstanding! I'll bet that revolver is a hoot to shoot! Enjoy!
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10-13-2024, 08:30 AM
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Cool gun all the way around.
45 colt, nice grips,different sights what's not to like.
Does the hammer hit the sight ?
It looks very close in the pictures.
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S&WCA #2726
Last edited by weatherby; 10-13-2024 at 08:32 AM.
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10-13-2024, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleAugieMo
.45 colt or .45 acp? No matter..would buy anyways!
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Good point, I should have made that clear. When I bought it I thought it was a 45 Colt based on the barrel stamp but it remains 45 ACP with the apparently original cylinder based on the SN being stamped on it.
Jeff
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10-13-2024, 09:16 AM
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S/N stamping looks interesting....
Nice rounding job on the butt of the frame. Someone knew what they were about.
Best,
RM Vivas
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10-13-2024, 09:32 AM
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Did Smith ever make an underlug, skinny 45 Long Colt barrel. It looks like a 3-1/2" M27 barrel but the caliber lettering looks very "factory" stamped?
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10-13-2024, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherby
Does the hammer hit the sight ?
It looks very close in the pictures.
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No, doesn't hit it, but it is close.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
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10-13-2024, 10:54 AM
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Awesome gun!
This is a very cool revolver ! Congratulations on finding this
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10-13-2024, 11:00 AM
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That one just makes me smile. Someone knew what they wanted and executed their plan near perfectly!
The case hardening colors are spectacular! And a humpback hammer on a 1917? Very very cool!
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Even older, even crankier....
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10-13-2024, 11:22 AM
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I’ll take it! PM me with address to send funds
SVT28
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10-13-2024, 03:47 PM
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This is one of the coolest S&Ws I've ever seen! Love the mods on it.
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10-13-2024, 04:10 PM
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Absolutely Exquisite, This gun is a real work of Art on many fronts. The collaboration of the end user & the craftsman (or men) involved display excellent communication between parties and gunsmithing skills of the highest order. This was a very nice find, whatever you paid I Don't think any of us could walk away from this gun after seeing or handling it.
I'm amazed at how well centered the lettering is, & the peep sight on the Wondersight. Was this done for long range pistol shooting?
Definitely one of the finest custom guns that I've seen on any forum, Thanks for sharing with us.
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10-13-2024, 04:42 PM
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Very cool. That is one special revolver. I just love those stocks.
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10-13-2024, 06:23 PM
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Please post a pic of the muzzle and the top of the frame.
Is the trigger grooved? Does it have a patent date?
Very cool gun. I think the Wondersight was added later. I'll bet it was intended as a fixed sight carry gun. If the guy building it had wanted adj sights, he would have added one while building it.
That barrel is very puzzling. Can't be a 1950 Military barrel- they don't have shrouds. So, where did a non ribbed shrouded barrel in 45 Colt come from? Puzzling....
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10-13-2024, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector
Please post a pic of the muzzle and the top of the frame.
Is the trigger grooved? Does it have a patent date?
Very cool gun. I think the Wondersight was added later. I'll bet it was intended as a fixed sight carry gun. If the guy building it had wanted adj sights, he would have added one while building it.
That barrel is very puzzling. Can't be a 1950 Military barrel- they don't have shrouds. So, where did a non ribbed shrouded barrel in 45 Colt come from? Puzzling....
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I was thinking the 1950 Military 44 which has a shroud but you're right, of course, the 45 version doesn't. A 22-4 has a shroud but I would think this was built before those arrived.
There are no patent dates, nothing on the barrel except the front sight.
Yes, the trigger is grooved.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
Last edited by 22hipower; 10-13-2024 at 07:08 PM.
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10-13-2024, 07:12 PM
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Well, if the gunsmith that did all that beautiful work could not take the rib off a Model 1950 barrel, I would be shocked!
Here is one to which that the very thing happened. Second one down, in the white.
If they had used the barrel above it, the lettering would have been centered.
Kevin
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10-13-2024, 07:28 PM
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Thanks for the pics.
Like I said-I think the builder wanted fixed sights. Note that he opened up the tiny round 1917 U groove.
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10-13-2024, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector
Thanks for the pics.
Like I said-I think the builder wanted fixed sights. Note that he opened up the tiny round 1917 U groove.
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Assuming the peep sight shoots to POA, which I plan to find out this week, would the fixed sight do the same with the same front sight?
Jeff
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10-13-2024, 07:37 PM
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Those grips resemble others that have been posted here that, I think, were attributed to G&H.
You might want to pursue a thread showing many pics of them including insides.
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Lee Jarrett
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10-13-2024, 08:10 PM
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Really enjoyed seeing you post this gun up!
I have a K grip set that resembles yours quite a bit. I have no real way to be sure of the maker but they do share most of the same telltale roper traits.
I do find many of these non ribbon sets are made of the same type walnut that have many pronounced straight dark lines.
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10-13-2024, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paplinker
Really enjoyed seeing you post this gun up!
I have a K grip set that resembles yours quite a bit. I have no real way to be sure of the maker but they do share most of the same telltale roper traits.
I do find many of these non ribbon sets are made of the same type walnut that have many pronounced straight dark lines.
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Thanks for posting, they sure look like the same maker. The insides look just like those on the 1917. RKmesa may be along to comment on the maker as he has one or more sets that have the same attributes. Hopefully there will be a few others who have some like them too.
Jeff
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10-13-2024, 08:33 PM
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Richard
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10-14-2024, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22hipower
Sure would like to know the history on this one. It started life as a common military 1917 (SN 98896) and has the usual Springfield Armory stamps (eagle's head) on the cylinder and frame. Beyond those stamps there's not much left to confirm it as a 1917.
The barrel, probably a 1950 Army, has been shortened to four inches with a ramp front sight with Call gold bead and is stamped in the ejector shroud with the SN much as the factory would have done before 1957.
The butt has been rounded with the lanyard ring hole plugged and the SN stamped on the butt and on the side of the frame.
The hammer is an HBH from before WWII. A Wondersight peep sight has been installed.
The stocks are unmarked but were certainly completed by an accomplished stock maker. There is nothing on the inside of them to identify the maker.
The finish is a deep blue much like that on my factory finished ones from the late '50s/'60s. The large logo seems as crisp and sharp as those on factory finished guns.
I haven't shot it yet but the action is as tight as any I have and the peep sight and gold bead center as soon as the gun is pulled up to acquire a sight picture.
All in all, odd as it is, it's quite an incredible gun smithing project and I can't wait to shoot it. Maybe this week. If anyone has anything like it, or thoughts on how it came to be, or knows who the stock maker might be, please comment.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
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Love it! Looks like the smith softened the edges also.
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10-14-2024, 12:38 AM
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Are there numbers on the back of the cylinder?
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10-14-2024, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22hipower
…Sure would like to know the history on this one. It started life as a common military 1917 (SN 98896) and has the usual Springfield Armory stamps (eagle's head) on the cylinder and frame. Beyond those stamps there's not much left to confirm it as a 1917.
…Jeff
SWCA #1457
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First, a very interesting revolver, I like it. Unfortunately, I have a lot of questions and observations but no answers.
But, I do not see a lot of 1917 lineage. The frame may have been bought back after the contract ended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22hipower
…The butt has been rounded with the lanyard ring hole plugged and the SN stamped on the butt and on the side of the frame.
…Jeff
SWCA #1457
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The serial number is not stamped the normal way for a Model 1917 Army revolver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22hipower
…The large logo seems as crisp and sharp as those on factory finished guns.
…Jeff
SWCA #1457
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The logo and “MADE IN U.S.A.” were not present on the military models and a small logo under the cylinder release was common for the Commercial Model.
It is an interesting revolver and it asks a lot of questions! My kind of piece.
Kevin
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10-14-2024, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennexplorer
Are there numbers on the back of the cylinder?
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Yes, appears to be the original cylinder for the 1917, same number and has a Springfield Armory (eagle head) inspection stamp.
Jeff
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10-14-2024, 10:21 AM
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What a great gun and stocks ! Not a big fan of wonder sights though and on this gun it’s kinda blocks the cool factor of the humpback hammer. I’d be tempted if it was mine to alter the height if the front to get it regulated after removing the wonder sight. But it’s a treasure regardless.
The Roper/Gagne and G&H connection it brought up on a regular basis and I could believe it completely except for the production number, I’m a bit skeptical that Gagne could have produced enough to cover Both Roper and G&H. Regardless that’s some beautiful lumber.
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10-14-2024, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Brown
... The Roper/Gagne and G&H connection it brought up on a regular basis and I could believe it completely except for the production number, I’m a bit skeptical that Gagne could have produced enough to cover Both Roper and G&H. Regardless that’s some beautiful lumber.
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If not Gagne, do you have thoughts as to who may have been driving the G&H stock production? The craftsmanship on the grips appears to me to be hand tooled, rather than mass produced, and if I recall, the jig marks on the back are similar to those found on Ropers.
Thank you,
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10-14-2024, 11:48 AM
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Hi Richard, do I know who else, not really and they do appear to be quite like Gagne/Ropers. But from what I know of Gagnes work space and methods it just seems a stretch for him to have supplied both.
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10-14-2024, 11:50 AM
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I love the gun, but do have a question. Wouldn't the 1950 45 Colt barrel be .454 diameter, so slightly too large for the .45 ACP .452 bullets? I would think this could cause a degradation of accuracy, although perhaps slight.
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10-14-2024, 12:07 PM
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I like it. I would like it even more with a 45 colt cylinder fitted to it, but thats just because of my 45 colt obsession
I do have something very similar I made up starting with a 1917 frame
Last edited by steelslaver; 10-14-2024 at 12:10 PM.
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10-14-2024, 07:07 PM
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A wonderful revolver! Thanks for sharing with us.
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10-14-2024, 07:36 PM
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The factory didn’t make many of them but that can be remedied with a little custom work. I’ve actually got another barrel coming back that was bumped out for an eventual post war fixed sight ribless shrouded barrel 45 Colt project.
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10-14-2024, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Brown
Hi Richard, do I know who else, not really and they do appear to be quite like Gagne/Ropers. But from what I know of Gagnes work space and methods it just seems a stretch for him to have supplied both.
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The set I have pictured above does have that ledge that the trigger guard fits in. Very Roperish. I wonder if anyone other than Gagne was creating that distinct feature?
Does RK Mesa's or the OPs grips have that ledge feature?
I have plenty of Gagne's work in Walnut but none are like my above set with the straight black grain lines.
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10-14-2024, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT28
I’ll take it! PM me with address to send funds
SVT28
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You're going to have to fight me.
You know it belongs in my collection
Seriously, I love it. What a neat gun. I love it when someone does a gun right like this.
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10-14-2024, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paplinker
The set I have pictured above does have that ledge that the trigger guard fits in. Very Roperish. I wonder if anyone other than Gagne was creating that distinct feature?
Does RK Mesa's or the OPs grips have that ledge feature?
I have plenty of Gagne's work in Walnut but none are like my above set with the straight black grain lines.
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Here are a couple pictures of the insides of the ones on the 1917.
Jeff
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10-14-2024, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22hipower
Here are a couple pictures of the insides of the ones on the 1917.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
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Them's Ropers.
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10-19-2024, 02:35 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Northern Ohio
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I wonder if the possibility exists that this gun was an employee's pet project perhaps out of old parts or factory seconds.
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10-20-2024, 08:33 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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The caliber marking on the RH side of the bbl is done by hand engraving.
The style was done so to match that of a roll die type impression, but you can see with carefull and very close examination that it was done with gravers and some assistance with hammer & chisel.
Plus the font style as done on the bbl with it's serif style lettering does not match that which was done on a factory bbl marking.
Very nice work though!
So I'd guess the bbl was a rebore/rerifled 38-44HD or a 44 3rdmodel.
The new Front Sight base likely pinned /attached to the bbls orig fixed front sight base if it's not been cut back at all..
Perhaps the orig base milled to a narrower profile so the new ramp could be fitted over it in a blind tongue and groove type attachment for strength (and easier 12oclock timing!). Then pinned and maybe additionaly sweat soldered in place.
Nice Work!
I'd probably do w/o the Wondersite, but that's just me.
Last edited by 2152hq; 10-20-2024 at 08:36 AM.
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10-20-2024, 10:17 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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That is a very nice revolver. Mark me down a jealous.
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