Can this be for real? I stopped in a shop I don't get to very often today and they had this gun tagged as a Model 25 .45 Colt. I noticed a 6-1/2" barrel and walnut diamond targets, so asked to see it. Not model marked, serial no. is S159611. Has the short cylinder and is chambered for .45 Colt. Barrel is marked "45 COLT CTG". I suspected a gunsmith job, but the serial no. is in the ejector shroud and on the back of the cylinder, as well as the back of the ejector star. It does not appear to be refinished. There are some dings on the stocks and Bubba has re-shaped the Patridge blade to a short ramp and installed a red insert.
Checked SCSW3 and it says there were only 15 of these made in .45 Colt. I'm having trouble believing I really stumbled across something that rare, that only happens to other people...
I'm going back there tomorrow, anybody know of anything else I can check to verify authenticity? Its priced at $699, so I can't lose too much if it doesn't letter, probably worth $400-ish as a shooter.

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Could be...I just looked at the barrel of my 45 acp 25-0 and it is marked "45 Caliber Model of 1955"

Look at it this way...if it letters you have a gun worth WAY more than $699

If not it's still worth the money for a 5 screw gun

I know there were some 1950 Targets made in .45 Colt. I believe that Doc44 has commented about them here before.
I would buy it! I don't care if it doesn't letter. The fact that it has a pencil barrel marked .45 Colt makes it worth something, even if the cylinder started out as a .45 ACP.

I bet it's the real deal. I am no expert, but I have some info here that says that more than 15 were made. I don't have it in front of me, but I believe that my source says 150. I'll have to check and see if I can find it tomorrow.

If that gun is in Bloomington, the frame is marked 28-3. However, the top of the frame is checkered like a 27. It is obviously a conversion, but it is unknown who did it.

Ten 1955 Target 45s chambered in 45 Colt were shipped to H. H. Harris, Chicago, IL, on June 19, 1959. The serial number you cited is not one of the ten. However, only a check of the original invoice can verify the caliber of the revolver. I would buy the gun for that price and send for a letter. It still would be a great shooter even if it is not original.

G4F...Approximately 200 1950 Target 45s were chambered in 45 Colt. I have owned a couple of them over the years .

Bill

Would be a nice gun to have regardless, and the price is not out of line in today's world. As Bill said, buy it now and worry about the letter later.

75R90S - are you still riding yours? I could be said to be "76R90S" - in my case, Daytona Orange.

Well , if as you say, it's a heavy barrel, 6 1/2 in., 1955 or 1956 gun, numbers match, I,d mortgare a testicle to own it.
$700. would be fair. CHECK under the grips for any re work marks, it well may have been sent back to the factory and converted.
That would make it legit with me.

Camp out with yer' checkbook and go get it.


What? You're not back yet?

Goods luck ,,Allen F.

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Please keep us posted. Pictures would be nice too.
Good luck.

I knew if anyone would know, it would be you Bill.

Wow, impatient enablers here. I bought it today, pictures will have to wait for Illinois' 3 day "cooling off" period. Hmm.. works the other way for me

Max, I know the gun you mean, this is not it.

M29, Silver Smoke and still ridden. I've owned it for 27 years now.

Allen, I did take the grips off. No rework marks. Numbers match on butt, crane, barrel,cyl and extractor. Has the "Lazy" ampersand and the caliber marking is in the smaller lettering of the period. The headspace dim. is correct for .45 Colt, does not have the moon clip clearance, so I don't see how it could be rechambered from .45 ACP.

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So ,stranger ,you got a name? Or should we just call you "Lucky' ?

Regards ,,,Al

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Coming up (this July) on 33 years, in my case.

To accept moon clips (and 45 Auto Rim for that matter), the back of the cylinder is faced off to create a greater headspace

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Jim
S&WCA #819

That will be $50 silver for consulting fees

Picked it up today. Here's some pictures. I would like to hear your opinions, even though I can't afford the consulting fees.

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75R

I believe I detect a sideways "R" in the ejector window. From the picture it appears to be like this.



This is the mark of a factory replacement barrel on my January 44 mag and is numbered to the gun. Look under the grips and see if there is a date (mine doesnt have one) and under the ejector to see if there is a "R" there as well.

Consulting fees waived...great gun with a possible cool story...letter it

Did you buy it to shoot, or worry over?

Shoot it, enjoy it, and don't worry about it.

I think you should get it lettered, but I would still shoot the heck out of it. That's what guns were made for. Not collecting. A tool that never gets used is worthless.

BTW, that isn't what I thought you were describing. It has the bull barrel, not the pencil version, which would have made it worth quite a bit more.

Well you got a nice gun. Now the only question is, how does it shoot?

It's fun to sit back and conjecture about the possibilities of its original configuration but it begs for a letter.

Did it start life as a premodel 25 in 45 ACP or a premodel 26 in 45ACP with a slender barrel? The letter may not even clear that up. In all likely hood the letter will give you the original cartridge and barrel length only in addition to shipping location.

You didn't indicate that the grips were serial #d to the gun but unlikely anyway on target grips. The target grips, hammer and trigger point towards it being a premodel 25 since they came standard on the 25s, although of course, they could have been changed also.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I forgot to ad earlier...shoot the **** out of it

hi
there is one way to tell if it is real pull the grips and look on the side of the frame,
all the frames are marked with a letter than tell what caliber it was made in.

A 45 colt should have a number 7 on the side of the frame it could be on either side.

if it was build as a 45 ACP it will have a 5 on the side.

if it was a 44 special it will have a 4 on the side.

a 38 special will have a 8

I hope this helps.

Jim Fisher
S&WCA member 1491.

Mr Fisher
Glad to hear from you...wish you spoke more often as I know you have a vast wealth of knowledge to pass on.

What number would be on a 44 mag, 22lr etc.?

Curtis
I know all orginal 29,s have a 0 on the left side of the grip frame.

I dont know about 22,s
the only ones that I have researched are the ones that share common frames. N frames
this also works for fixed sight guns
44 specials that were were reworked from Heavy duties or were build as 38 and converted to 44,s
Not many people know about this until now
you learn by making mistakes buying guns
that have been put together.

my guess on this gun on this thread is it has been put together because the stamping does not look right. it could be factory converted which means it will not letter.
jim

Jim
I am pretty sure the barrel is a replacement as it looks like it has the same "R" as my gun I posted with a replacement bbl. It obviously has a 45 Colt cylinder judging by the headspace and the chambers. Its pretty apparent that whatever was done, it is factory as it has all been numbered to the gun.

This is exactly the kind of gun that trips my trigger as it is a "mystery" gun. A letter could lead to a dead end as production invoices and rework invoices were not kept together, but it would be worth the $50 to see what Roy can find out.

Wow, the depth of knowledge here is incredible. Yes, there is a sideways R in the ejector window. There's no date on the grip frame, but there is a 5 stamped on the left side. I'll send for a letter, but it seems we've pretty well established its factory converted from .45ACP.
Tomorrow we'll see how it shoots.

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curtis
If it has any number but a 7 on the side of frame it is not worth a letter as the invoice will only show what it was build as. There is no way for roy to find the rework invoice as it does not have a date or a name of who sent it back.
jim

hi
yes thats what I needed to know the 5 indicates it was build as a 45 acp.
save your money a letter will not tell you any more than you know now.
enjoy the gun as a shooter it should shoot great.
and a great cal.
you could not get one converted for what you payed for it.
jim

Jim
you are far more well versed than me on this, but I would still letter it just to see the beginning of the trail so to speak. You and I both know letters are an iffy proposition, but there may be something there to build on.

Whatever the outcome, its a cool gun and one I would gladly have paid the asking price for.

If you can find out where it shipped, then perhaps you can trail it to whomever had the rework done, and get some history on it. FWIW

P.S.
The only drawback to this gun is that it has the ACP length cylinder, and won't allow for much variation from factory OAL cartridges in the loads that can be used in it.

I still would have bought it!

Jim,
Last month I purchsaed a 99% 5 screw pre model 24 shipped in Dec 1955 from the original owner who purchased the gun new that month (for $82 BTW) that is stamped 4 on the left side of the frame and 7 on the right side.
What do you make of that?

Thanks,

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Jim
S&WCA #819

jim
the 4 on the left side would indicate a 44 spec.
the 7 on the right side could be a inspector stamp
the normal side for the cal is the left side.
also some times the stamps are different sizes.
is the 7 a smaller stamp.
jim

I will echo what bmg60 says, namely, the numbers and/or letters on the right side of the frame are fitters or inspectors marks. The 1950 Target 44 should have a 4 and a B (for blue) stamped on the lower left side of the grip frame. I checked two of mine and they are stamped that way. One has an H, an L and an 8 on the right side; the other and H and a 6. Sometimes, a letter or letters will also be stamped in the yoke cut.

I would also agree it is not worth sending for a letter on the 45 target chambered in 45 Colt. It will letter as being shipped in 45 ACP and trying to chase down the rework invoice will be next to an impossible task.

Bill

What would a 357 Mag have stamped on the grip frame?

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Tom
SWCA 1856, SWHF 780

tom
the ones I have looked at don't have a number stamped on the left side just a B for a blued gun or a N for a nickel gun.
but you will find fitters numbers on the right side.

jim

Jim,
The 7 is the same size. No B on the left. I've got another pre model 24 waiting to be picked up; another original owner gun I'll check. My pre models 22 and 26 both have a 5 on the left; no B and nothing on the right. No codes at all on my pre war N frames.

Thanks,

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Bringing this thread back from the graveyard. I've had this '55 Target 45 Colt for 6 years now. I have shot it some, but never got around to sending for a letter. I finally did, and just got the letter today.

So, its the real deal, even though Roy typo'ed the serial no. Of course, its S159611, not S1159611.

Attached Images

100_0356.jpg (67.3 KB, 107 views)

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Congratulations for remembering the often repeated saying here ... "Anything is possible with S&W"! Think we can see the pictures again???

In addition to the original lot of 10, there were 2 more shipments of 2 each. I believe only 3 of the 4 serial numbers were identified. The barrel markings are correct for an original 45 Colt.
The original article was in the Spring 1986 Journal and the update (without serial numbers) was in the Autumn 1991 Journal.

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Dick

Well, good things come to those who wait . Second on the photos again, please!

PS Still have the R90S? My brother had one, and I have had an R100RS and still have my "new" bike, a first year R1100RS.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Yeah, pictures would be helpful. Here are some, I should have posted them up yesterday, my bad.

Attached Images

	000_0001.jpg (42.6 KB, 64 views)
	right2.jpg (47.1 KB, 58 views)
	000_0004.jpg (79.0 KB, 41 views)
	cyl.jpg (67.4 KB, 46 views)

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