Earliest 2" K-frame M&P's

[mikepriwer]

Some months ago, in a discussion about 2" M&P's, someone found a reference to
the engineereing/production order for the first batch of 2" barrels. Does
anyone recall that thread, and/or what the date was of that order ?

Regards, Mike Priwer

[scha]

In Smith & Wesson 1857-1945 by Neal and Jinks, there is a reference on page 236 that says: "June 29, 1933 Order to make 250 .38 HE 2" barrels for round butt blue revolvers per H. Wesson."

Hope this helps, Steve

[mikepriwer]

Steve

Thanks. This is a 2" snubby for sale, or was for sale, on Gunbroker :







I called the seller, and the serial number is 608944, which should be about 1929.

To me, the gun looks like a square butt that has been modified. Those grips are certainly
not factory, nor do they fit the gun very well.

I think this gun is way too early for a snubby, but the barrel serial number does match.

Regards, Mike Priwer

[linde]

Mike,

FWIW, I have a 2" RB M&P with s/n 6731XX shipped Feb 1939. It has hard rubber grips but cannot see a pencil number to verify they were original to the gun.




Russ
S&WCA 853
S&WHF 234

[Memphis]

Wow. If it was originally a square butt he should have left it that way. Aren't the squares a little more scarce?

Roger

[mikepriwer]

Memphis

I don't know , for sure - about the butt configuration. I thought it looked a bit
different than the usual round-butt. I do know that mid-1933 was the first batch of
2" barrels - this gun should be earlier than that, but maybe its not. I know the
grips are not factory,and do not fit well.

That is all I know.

Later, Mike Priwer

[bmcgilvray]

There was a pre-war 2-inch M&P thread here over a year ago. Some gorgeous early snubs showed up in members' photographs. I love looking at them.

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

I had been watching that auction. The gun did not sell, but it has been relisted.....for $100 higher starting bid...and is now listed as a Utica N.Y. Police revolver, which apparently someone identified to the seller. In the original auction listing, there was no reference to the backstrap stamping "UPD" with shield or rack number as being a Utica N.Y. Police revolver. I thought the seller was "baiting the hook" so to speak, so I've been watching with interest.

Lyle Larkworthy had one a few years ago. I spoke with a very good friend who is a retired deputy chief of the Utica PD. He confirmed that these were surplused by the Utica PD during the 1960's or early 1970's.....for about $30 each. He was unable to comment on the issue of the butt being altered.

The auction images look somewhat distorted and makes it difficult to say for certain, but I don't think it has been altered. I agree with Mike, that the post war magna type grips look weird and don't seem to fit well. Perhaps the grips were modified from square to round? I dunno. It should of course be fitted with pre war service style stocks of the correct period. I have out of necessity, temporarily placed magna's on pre war revolvers and found variations in the way they fit. I suppose a letter would tell the tale.

[mikepriwer]

Lefty

You're right about getting a letter. Otherwise, one never knows for sure when it was shipped.

Look at the checkering on the upper part of the grips, going around the underside of the medallion.
That is not factory checkering. Also look at the checkering as it goes down and around the bottom
of the grip. That is not factory either.

The gun may be a round butt,and if was shipped after mid 1933, then it could be right. But not
the grips.

Later, Mike Priwer

[Texas Star]

I think someone wanted wooden grips checkered like the rubber ones were.

I really like that effect.

T-Star

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

Mike;

Those grips are strangely attractive. I'm gonna guess they are aftermarket made in the 50's or 60's. The fit at the butt is far from perfect but otherwise they look well made compared with some of the other period magna aftermarket grips. Plastic was the popular aftermarket replacement grip material in those two decades, hands down, it was cheap and durable. Later on, SILE and a few others began offering walnut. Whoever did the grips on that 2 inch M&P wasn't producing them on the cheap. Wondering if there is any makers name on them?

Also, studying the auction photos, the distortion skews the grip frame and makes it appear longer. Compare the auction photos with Linde's (Russ') picture of his M&P. (Very nice gun by the way, super looking case color on the hammer too!)

[mikepriwer]

Lefty

Jim fisher sent me a note about his 2" gun, with serial in the 622xxx range. Unfortunately
its open on the books, so no shipping date is available. I told him that I had 614xxx,
a 2" shipped in 1935.

The first order for 2" barrels is late June 1933, so any 2" gun before that is not right.
This one in the auction is serial 608944, so that is an early serial number. The relationship between
serial number and shipping date from 1929 to 1934 is horribly out of sync, so there is no easy way to
know when this gun was shipped.

I'm sure the photo's do distort the grip frame. Still in all, I would like to know when this gun was
shipped, and the butt and barrel configuration.

Regards, Mike Priwer

[linde]

Originally posted by oldflatfoot:
Also, studying the auction photos, the distortion skews the grip frame and makes it appear longer. Compare the auction photos with Linde's (Russ') picture of his M&P. (Very nice gun by the way, super looking case color on the hammer too!)

Lefty,

Thanks for your comment but I must share that the blueing and case coloring is not original. Back in my early collecting days I felt that I owed it to any mistreated S&W to restore it to it's original condition. I no longer buy mistreated guns and have come to enjoy owning those with honest wear.

The gunsmith who refinished this gun found a source (in Indiana I believe) for restoring the case coloring using the original method. Here's a better picture of the trigger ... it too has bright case coloring.



Russ
SWCA #853
SWHF #234

[dbusch]

dbusch,
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