Help with value for S&W M+P

[raylan007]

I'm afraid I got outside my realm of limited knowledge when I purchased this M+P on a WHIM just due to it appeal. I have no regrets but would like input on estimated value. Thanks in advance for your help.
S&W M+P Pre Model 10 .38 special with a 6" barrel. I believe the serial #S 9970XX dates this to 1945-48 if I am not mistaken. it has a beautiful patina perhaps not discernible in my photos. The only detraction is the scratch on the cylinder which was either hid in the sellers photos or happened in transfer. It also has a bit of wear under the trigger guard. I am debating selling, for yes another revolver I have to have and would perhaps shoot more often. Mechanics on this M+P are quite good and the grips and cylinder have matching serial numbers to the gun, no box or paperwork. What do you think the value of this M+P might be?

[gmborkovic]

I would like to see some pics of the backside of the grips. They look like 1920-1930 period grips. But you say they match. Tough call on this one.
The pics you furnished are great. Mike 2796

[Art Doc]

Just bought it and you want to know what it's worth?

It's worth what you paid.

[jsfricks]

Originally Posted by SaxonPig

Just bought it and you want to know what it's worth?

It's worth what you paid.

So if he paid $100 for it then that's all it's worth? Or if he paid $100 and sells it for $500, what's it worth? What he paid for it? This statement never made sense to me.

[DWalt]

What you have appears from the SN and pictures to be one of the very late S-series M&Ps from early 1948 having the new short action. There were only about 10,000 such revolvers made prior to the start of the C-series M&P. Your grips are from the 1920s era, and are incorrect. Correct grips would be sharp-shoulder Magnas. I cannot really provide a good value estimate due to the relative rarity of yours. It might bring somewhat in excess of $500 from a knowledgeable M&P collector wanting a S-series M&P pre-Model 10 revolver with a short action, assuming it had original matching grips. Someone having more familiarity with the market for those M&Ps such as yours may be able to provide a better value estimate. This is the first one of these I have seen posted here, and is definitely somewhat out of the ordinary. Period-correct Magna grips are not too difficult to find, but will not be original. See below:

[gmborkovic]

I have three of these 1946-1948 S series Pre-10s. They all have Magna grips with the little hole drilled for the doomed side plate screw. There appears to be no rub marks on the side of the frame from the Magna grips. Post some pics of the backside of your grips showing the stamped serial number. Who is to say your gun did not sneak out with some old early service grips on it. We are talking about Smiths and stuff did happen. Mike 2796

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by gmborkovic

I have three of these 1946-1948 S series Pre-10s. They all have Magna grips with the little hole drilled for the doomed side plate screw. There appears to be no rub marks on the side of the frame from the Magna grips. Post some pics of the backside of your grips showing the stamped serial number. Who is to say your gun did not sneak out with some old early service grips on it. We are talking about Smiths and stuff did happen. Mike 2796

1. The 1920s grips were not stamped. If anything, SNs were penciled on the rear of the right panel, and often cannot be seen.
2. Extremely unlikely that 1920s grips would have left the factory on a 1948 M&P.
3. The only S-series pre-Model 10s were the last 10,000 made with the short action.

[JP@AK]

Originally Posted by raylan007

serial #S 9970XX

Probably shipped in July or August, 1948. Nearly all the guns with nearby serial numbers in my database have the high-speed hammer, as yours does. And quite a few on either side have the 6" barrel, which seems to be much more common in the later S serial numbers than it is a year or so earlier.

the grips and cylinder have matching serial numbers to the gun

While that is possible, I find it to be very highly unlikely. This style of stocks went out of production nearly two decades before your gun left the factory. I doubt very much that they are original to this gun. A pair of 1930s stocks might show up on one of these guns, but the chances of stocks from the 1920s being shipped on one are infinitesimally small. Either you have misread the number on your stock panel, or someone added it later, would be my guess.

What do you think the value of this M+P might be?

I see these late S prefix revolvers for sale fairly often and own one or two myself. I've not noticed a particular price premium for those with the high-speed hammer unless, of course, it still has the original box, docs, etc. I'd say top dollar for this example would be around $550 or a bit less, considering it lacks correct stocks.

[raylan007]

Originally Posted by jsfricks

So if he paid $100 for it then that's all it's worth? Or if he paid $100 and sells it for $500, what's it worth? What he paid for it? This statement never made sense to me.

I bet someone once told you that you were clever.

[gmborkovic]

I know the early grips were penciled. I have some. I know it is highly unlikely. Stuff happened on the floor. Quit tying everything up in a neat little bow. If you read my posts, I want to see pics of the backside of the grips that are on the gun that the OP says match to the gun. With all due respect to my younger collectors. Mike 2796

[raylan007]

Thanks DWalt, I appreciate the input and I double checked the grips and found I was mistaken about the matching #'s. I took some additional photos if they are of any help. As hard as I try I can't make out the third numeral following the S in the grip serial #. Thanks to the rest who contributed helpful information. Regards

[raylan007]

Originally Posted by gmborkovic

I know the early grips were penciled. I have some. I know it is highly unlikely. Stuff happened on the floor. Quit tying everything up in a neat little bow. If you read my posts, I want to see pics of the backside of the grips that are on the gun that the OP says match to the gun. With all due respect to my younger collectors. Mike 2796

Sorry to have riled you, I'm just getting back to my thread so I will be happy to supply additional photos, As I stated I was mistaken about the matching grips. I'm just trying to get educated in an area I am unfamiliar with. Not quite sure about the neat little bow comment. Please elaborate so I can see where I went wrong. Regards

[gmborkovic]

Hey, those grips are stamped not penciled like stated by the young collector. Im not riled . There are boundaries when it comes to Smiths, not line in the sand rules. When somebody enters a post, read it. I asked for some pics of the backside. I knew the the grips were not original. Pics would solve the mystery, and they did. With all due respect to the young collectors who have not quite learned to comprehend the content of a sentence. Mike 2796

[Art Doc]

jsfricks- Everything is worth exactly what somebody is willing to pay for it. I have a safe full of million dollar guns, right? No, I have guns worth what somebody will pay for them.

If you can find someone willing to pay $5,000 for your garden variety M&P it's worth $5,000...to that guy.

If I offer an identical gun at auction and the high bid is $100...that gun is worth $100...at that time and in that place.

Putting an exact dollar value on a gun is nearly impossible. Note the responses when one the hundreds of posts asking for values each month draws replies. "Around here it's worth..." but what if the person asking isn't "around here?" Values vary wildly from region to region, state to state, what the moon looks like tonight, etc. Any offered estimate is a guess.

When I buy something I make sure I do two things. One, I stop looking. If I find a similar item at a lower price I am upset. Two, I don't ask for the opinions of strangers who have never seen the item regarding the value of what I just bought. All I'll get is guesses. Some will make me happy...some will upset me. When I buy something I like to think I paid the right amount.

But I guess I'm kooky.

[JP@AK]

Originally Posted by gmborkovic

With all due respect to the young collectors who have not quite learned to comprehend the content of a sentence.

What and who are you talking about? Other than your two references to "young collectors" I see nothing in this thread that reflects anything about "young collectors" who can't "comprehend" English sentences. This is generally a very polite forum. I find your attitude a bit troubling. Please ease off.

[JP@AK]

Originally Posted by raylan007

I took some additional photos if they are of any help. As hard as I try I can't make out the third numeral following the S in the grip serial #.

raylan007
Your posts, your questions and your photos are fine. Thanks for posting, especially the photos.

In your picture of the inside of the stock panels - here is what I find interesting. I have looked at literally hundreds of these over the years. Until now, I have never seen a serial number stamped on the inside of the right stock panel that included the S (or any other postwar letter, for that matter). The practice of S&W when they impressed the serial number into the wood was to provide only the numeric digits - not the letter. So, for example, on a gun serialized at S814325, the serial number on the right stock panel would be marked as 814325 (this is a real life example from my own collection, by the way).
My opinion about your stocks is that a previous owner of your gun found some very nice, 1920s vintage stocks, mated them to your gun (with an S997xxx serial number - at least I think that is a seven), then got some die stamps and put the serial number in that location. One reason I think this, besides the presence of the S, is that no S&W revolver made in the 1920-29 decade would have had a number as high as 997000. This is, I believe, a later stamp.
For what it's worth . . .

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by JP@AK

raylan007
Your posts, your questions and your photos are fine. Thanks for posting, especially the photos.

In your picture of the inside of the stock panels - here is what I find interesting. I have looked at literally hundreds of these over the years. Until now, I have never seen a serial number stamped on the inside of the right stock panel that included the S (or any other postwar letter, for that matter). The practice of S&W when they impressed the serial number into the wood was to provide only the numeric digits - not the letter. So, for example, on a gun serialized at S814325, the serial number on the right stock panel would be marked as 814325 (this is a real life example from my own collection, by the way).
My opinion about your stocks is that a previous owner of your gun found some very nice, 1920s vintage stocks, mated them to your gun (with an S997xxx serial number - at least I think that is a seven), then got some die stamps and put the serial number in that location. One reason I think this, besides the presence of the S, is that no S&W revolver made in the 1920-29 decade would have had a number as high as 997000. This is, I believe, a later stamp.
For what it's worth . . .

I didn't get back here until now, but agree with all the above. It's a spurious later SN stamping on the grip panel. Should be no letter prefix, SN is far too high for that style grip, and 1920s grips were not stamped but penciled.