Submitted a request 2 weeks ago for letters of authenticity on (3) Victory models I recently bought. In accordance with the S&W web site, est time frame was 8-12 weeks, cost per gun $30.00.
Received my request & check along with a letter from Roy Jinks today. Bad news is they've suspended this service until 10/15/08, and all requests must be re-submitted with the new fee of $50.00 per request, after that date. Disappointing to say the least, particularly since the S&W site/public information still says $30.00 ea. I didn't mind $90 too much, but I will not spend $150. Too bad.

Submitted a request 2 weeks ago for letters of authenticity on (3) Victory models I recently bought. In accordance with the S&W web site, est time frame was 8-12 weeks, cost per gun $30.00.
Received my request & check along with a letter from Roy Jinks today. Bad news is they've suspended this service until 10/15/08, and all requests must be re-submitted with the new fee of $50.00 per request, after that date. Disappointing to say the least, particularly since the S&W site/public information still says $30.00 ea. I didn't mind $90 too much, but I will not spend $150. Too bad.

Check what a Colt letter costs. Makes it look like a bargain and you get a document that is signed by Mr. Jenks. Colt's research is hit or miss and the price is different for each gun.
Twenty bucks for the keeper of S&W info is not much to pay extra, in my opinion. From what I understand he bought and paid for all the old records so give him his due.

Actually S&W is long over due for a bump in their letter prices. I just got one on a Parker Shotgun and it was $50.
And Colt, yes, check it out.

I sent my money on 4/8t and the check was cashed on 5/15 i havnt got my letter yet so i called S&W to see if there was any way to see where it was or how it was coming along the oparater said she would put me on hold for a bit the phone rang and MR .Jenks was on the other end i said i was trying to check on my letter i must have got him on a bad day he said that thay cut his staff and he was doing the letters by himself with no help i tryed to say i was sorry for calling he said that thay cash the checks before he ever sees the request and he was gest starting on the stuff from april and he was gone all of july and it mite be 20 weeks or more till i see my letter i tryed to tell him i didnt ask to talk ot him i gest was wondering about the letter (it was around 20 weeks) when i called

Excuse me, but his name is Mr. Jinks, not Mr. Jenks. Probably that is the reason why it takes a little bit longer.

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Regards from Germany
Stephan

this has been talked about for weeks. i have several to be done but being a s&wca member i have knowen about this for a long time.

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George Jamison

Howdy

I agree, $30 was dirt cheap. I was wondering how long it would be before they raised the price. I had a Colt SAA lettered several years ago. Cost $100 and took about 5 months to get it. While the jump from $30 to $50 is awfully big, it is still a bargain compated to Colt. The difference is, now I won't get every single Smith I buy lettered. I can find out the dates for most of them myself in the SCSW. The really good ones, that are worth it, I will still letter.

Thanks for the input fellows. That Colt info does put the S&W cost in perspective. As Driftwood mentioned, I may just have to selectively letter the more "important" ones.

The letter service has been suspended until October to give the poor man a chance to whittle down the huge backlog of requests.

Folks need to realize that there is no S&W "letter department" with staff running around processing requests, it's a one man show. And if wasn't for Roy saving the old factory records there would not be a letter service to begin with. And... these records are not computerized, he has to manually search through them for your gun's invoice.

The man deserves a life too, like taking vacations and other time off. Plus S&W sends him on promotional trips, which puts him behind on doing letters. Demand has been particularly high, one has only to observe the amount of activity and interest on this forum alone regarding S&W's.

So cut the guy some slack about how long it's taking to get a letter, after all there is always the alternate reality were the service is discontinued because S&W no longer wishes to offer it, or Roy finally gets feed up doing it... like the rest of us, he isn't getting any younger.

I for one am very grateful that Roy Jinks is willing to provide his time and efforts in supporting the collector community, and we all owe him debt of thanks.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Kikokat, Did S&W send you your check back or one of their checks?...in others words did S&W cash your check?
thanks
th

A big part of the problem is that a lot of people want a letter for every S&W that they buy and are willing to pay for them. This means that a lot of time is spent sending letters letting people know which distributor their 625 was sent to in 2003. This delays processing the letter requests for the older guns which may have historical significance. Perhaps the price increase will help.

Better get your steel pot and flak vest out- you're gonna draw fire with that one.....

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I don't letter even older guns when I know that it will come back as shipped to Springfield Armory or shipped to this and that distributer. If I have no feeling that it wasn't sent as a PD gun, a Victory, etc. why waste my money and his time. I'm afraid I agree with Gary. Who gives a rat's tail that someones model 29 was shipped to Lew Horton. I've paid for my share of letters and none has not proven to be pedestrian as I pick and choose which guns to have checked.

TH,
S&W sent my check back, uncashed. I was just a bit late, I guess.
At this point, I will only "letter" the USNavy Victory when Mr. Jinks starts accepting requests again.

I happy that they are rising the price so people will stop lettering every Smith they own especially military revolvers and normal revolvers made after the seventies. But I think they have a lot of balls returning checks. Bad Business.

I have to agree with the above posters.
However, if a person has a reason to letter a recent manufacture firearm- by all means do it.
For instance, if a gun was sent directly from the factory to a dealer with a special "C/O" or "Attention to:" that will show up on the letter as being shipped to a certain famous/historical person...such as a country singer, statesman, etc., I think the letter is well worth it.

That is, of course, if you have the $50.00 to send in for the letter.

Let's see...for the price of ten letters, you could get a very nice pre-war something.
For the price of 20 letters, you could have a nearly a down payment on a Registered Magnum.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

I'll letter some of mine, older ones and newer ones. I have a factory DAO Model 64 that's a bit of a mystery serial number (CAFxxxx) that I'll probably letter. Not all of the later guns are boring.

Edit to add: I'll, for sure, letter my recently aquired M14 Dayton Gun Headquarters Hanen Special.

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Centennial Every Day

I agree that the price increase will probably slow down the incoming letter requests. However, many folks considering a letter request may look at the cost of a letter as a percentage of the firearm's value. So, as prices keep rising, $50 won't look too bad percentage-wise.

I currently have 8 letter requests in with Roy that I mailed over the past four months. I read somewhere on this forum that the backlog is around 800 requests. So, I guess I account for 1% of the backlog. And, you know, I don't feel guilty at all. I paid my money and I'm willing to wait for however long it takes, 8, 12, 16 or 24 weeks, whatever. Now, a rise in the price to $50 will slow me down significantly. However, to pretty much stop me, it would have to go to $75 or more.

I'm glad I lettered my two 3913s that came back as shipped to the LAPD. I'm also very happy that I letted my non-historical 4576 and found out from Roy that only 1389 units were produced; no wonder you don't see them very often. That information isn't in 3rd Edition.

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1st Signal Brigade, RVN '70

Well, there you go.
I, too, sometimes wish the guys lettering all the late guns would back off a bit, but who is justified in telling someone what to collect? Today's guns ARE tomorrow's collectibles.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Lee, you know what is, at least to me, is as good as a letter? When someone leaves the receipt in the box with the gun. Tells me more than a letter would with the exception of the distributer. At that point I have all kinds of provenance and history with that gun. I'm finding a lot of 60's and 70's guns that are pristine in the box with that receipt in the bottom.

I agree with Ted on the provenance. 2 years ago I bought a 99%+ Model 28-2 at an auction, that had everything with it in the box, including the original sales receipt, AND, it also had the original cancelled check that the original buyer used to pay for the gun.

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Gary Grace
S&WCA #1837

I bet you deposited it to try and get some of your money back......

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

As a matter of fact I did. I am used it to buy my plane ticket to Tulsa. There is even a little bit left over. I'll be able to treat you to a small coffee at the show.

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Gary Grace
S&WCA #1837

Funny how Ruger will tell you over the phone and send you a letter free.

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NRA Life Member

I agree a letter is free from Ruger, But .... You get absolutely no detail of any substance from them. A ship date is all you get along with the model number. They have only to go back to the 50's also. While S&W has a little more history and the Total Volume of guns produced is considerably more.

Dan

Saying that people who letter recently manufactured, mundane or otherwise "regular" guns are part of the back-log problem sounds a little like an "elitist" attitude don't you think?

I'll take the point for this stretch of trail.

I think it ought to be $100. Maybe at that rate, they could afford to hire a helper. I think it's worth it. And it is good to discourage trivial requests.

I don't have my steel pot and flak vest on, but I've got a thick skin.

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Regulate Banks, not guns

Trivial requests?

So if a first time gun owner (who bought a S&W revolver for example) wants to get a letter on his gun, you're going to tell him not to do it because it would be a trivial request?

HOSTILES in the open- front.
FIRE at will.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

It seems to me this is pretty straightforward. Regardless of age, all S&W letters have the same information, ie, general backround, where shipped, date and original configuration. On rare occassions, Mr. Jinks can add a little additional info. Neither S&W nor Roy Jinks, who BTW are the only people involved whose opinion matters, place any limitations on what age guns can be lettered. It thus follows that a person has a perfect right to letter any gun they want.

It matters not what the Gladys Kravitz's of the S&WCA or collecting community at large think. It is what it is...deal with it.

Bob

I know I’m swimming against the tide, but here it goes.

It was the easiest $30.00 S&W could ever hope to make, and good PR. Why should S&W or anyone else care what vintage gun people want to letter. I imagine the bean counters work pretty hard at the bottom line and price points on all their products, it’s easy money! They should be more customer friendly and have better and quicker service for factory letters. Sending un-cashed checks back because they are behind in their advertised service? That’s poor customer relations.

I appreciate that Mr. Jinks is a fine man and very available and approachable, that however doesn’t relieve S&W of poor service.

Emory

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Hard To Kill

I've followed this thread and there seems to be three approaches in the mix:

1. I collect old S&W's. How dare you get in line in front of me with that mundane, *** newer S&W. I have no patience; I don't want to wait 8 to 16 weeks; I want it NOW! Get out of my way! Mommy, make 'em move out of the way. Mommy! Mommy! Make 'em move!

2. I have newer S&W's and I want a letter, cheap and fast. How dare they go up in price to 1/2 of what Colt charges and place a moritorium on accepting any new requests for a couple of months. And, on top of that, once I send in my $50 request in October, it's still going to take 8-12 week. This ain't fair, my S&W ain't worth enough to justify a whole $50.00, especially if I have to wait.

3. Whatever. $30 was quite cheap and led me to requests letters on just about everything. Now, it will be $50, which is still more than fair, which will lead me to be more discriminating in my requests. As for the wait, it is what it is. My mother and teachers in school taught me that when waiting in line be patient, wait your turn, and shut up. Seems simple . . .

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1st Signal Brigade, RVN '70

I think the point that most folks miss is that issuing letters on S&W's from 1900 doesn't really affect the current company bottom line. They are in the business to produce and sell modern firearms. Yes, there is the customer service aspect, but remember, S&W does not own the factory records. Roy Jinks purchased the records from the Wesson family. They were in storage and the family was no longer interested in paying the storage fees since they no longer owned the company. Without Roy Jinks and his records, there would not be factory letters. Not sure how many of you are in business, but doing research and issuing and mailing a one or two page typed letter for $50 is pretty cheap.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I wish a letter was $30, but understand why it is $50.00. What I really worry about is what will happen when Roy is no longer willing/able to provide this service, and what may happen to these records. Information that a 1974 model 19 was sent to some wholesaler is pretty trivial, but there is some real history to some of these guns.

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I see dead people

Mr. Jinks told me in a SHOT Show visit that the State Library will get the records when he cannot do it anymore. What do you suppose the cost will be then?

I have some old Smith's aad some new one's, but I need to know who died and made you GOD TO SAY WHO OR HOW MANY LETTERS one can get on a new gun. If I buy a new one that Lew Horton had made and only 250 was made, I what a letter for it for 10 years down the road. So being self cented as you are, you can blow it out your *****.

I would be curious how many of these Mr. Jinks does per day, and how organized the records are.

I do have a question a bit off (brand)topic. I think, one of the best things about these letters, is knowing to whom the S&W was originally sent, especially early on, when they were mostly sent to hardware stores, etc. before distributors, rather than individuals, really took over the business of dealing directly with the company.

Unfortunately, as far as I know with regards to the Cody Museum and the Marlin and Winchester records, they do not provide a destination for the rifles with their letters. Does anyone know why? Certainly these companies must have kept records of where they sent their products years ago.

I will still letter any of the older Smiths I find. I lettered my military Victory and very glad I did as it turned out to be an OSS gun. I also lettered the 10-13 just because of how few of them were made. The rest of the older ones just because I can and they are all interesting in their own way.

Thank you Mr. Jinks for this great service. Fifty dollars is still a bargain.

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Mike
USMCR 84-87, USAF 87-07

If you think $50 is expensive, see how much your attorney charges to write a similar letter..

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M.A.A.C.
OGCA

I would guess that at $30, money was actually lost each time. Anyone know how long it takes to research, prepare and produce a letter?

Mike
SWCA 1975

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Sure you did

This seems to be a truely assinine move, on the part of Smith & Wesson. Surely there is an enthusiast amongst the ranks local to S&W who would step up to take over where Mr Jinks decides to leave off.

I believe that Mr. Jinks personally owns the records in question. I may be wrong but I dont think so. Maybe one of the more experienced collectors can expound.

Dan

I believe the records will go to the Connecticut Valley Historical Museum (the invoices are already on file there). Letters will continue through their efforts at some point in the (hopefully) very distant future when Roy no longer wants to write them.

Bill

Dan, Roy Jinks owns, or owned , the majority of the older S&W records, which he acquired from the Wesson family decendents and other sources. Most of these ( approx. 400,000+ pieces of paper,) are stored in the Conn. Valley Historical Museum vaults. The S&WCA has funded something like $150,000 over the years to perserve this material and catalog it, including some 1,500 guns from the factory collections. Not all the paper material is related to actual firearms - a lot of it is just daily business correspondence and other misc. material. One item I remember reading was a letter from D B. Wesson to his tailor complaining the tailor made D.B.'s shorts too tight! For years Roy has said that when he dies, his material goes to the CVHM and Factory letters as we know them, will cease - however some of us have argued with Roy over the years that another solution was possible. A tax exempt entity , Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation, has been founded by Ray Cheely, Jim Supica, Bill Cross, Roy, & others interested in preserving factory archives and historical letters, etc. which will eventually provide funds for digitizing all the gun info into one source, so that when a letter is requested you would get the original shipping info, a copy of the invoice and all other related material, such as work orders for later repairs or alterations to the same gun, etc. This will not happen tomorrow but the wheels are in motion to achieve this goal. See other threads on this site about the S&WHF. Having said all the above, collectors are still getting a bargain at $50 per letter. Roy is 'Retired" from S&W as a factory employee and is a contractor that furnishes historical info. to collectors, etc. plus PR appearances and other functions. The $50 fee covers the factory expenses related to his efforts. S&W management is not interested in having happy campers in the collecting fraternity, but are concentrating on the bottom line in their daily efforts to keep S&W in the black, which is a real chore in today's economy. Factory letters have come a long way in the last 75 years. The first letters I used to get were free, but usually said something like "Yes, you have a S&W revolver and we made it. Thanks for asking." After Roy was hired, they got a little better and were still free, but then they were raised to $5 ! Everbody howled about the big Rip Off! Gradually they went to $15, $20 and $30 and more info. was in each letter. At the now cost of $50, they are still a bargain, and I don't object to any collector who wants to spend $50 to letter any S&W, even if it was made yesterday. In fact. letters on recent production may be somewhat of a rarity as current records are not being kept in a fashion that is easy for Roy to locate, especially rarer guns from the Performance Center. There are other sources of older S&W records, not at the CVHM or in Roy's collection. The Univ. of Massachusetts library has quite a collection and several private collectors have materials purchased at Gun Shows and from dealers. If you have contacts and access to any of those areas, you can do extensive research on older S&Ws sometimes. Dan. you asked "What Time it Is?" and I've told you how to make a watch! Sorry about that! Ed.

Thanks Bill & Ed,

I think that explains everything.

Dan