Today I saw a pre Model 37 at a show that a dealer had just gotten in. He had not yet decided what he wanted for it. I would easily rate it at 99%+, it still had the original alloy cylider with a faint hint of a turn line. It was a square but and of course it had a flat latch. I am going back to the show on Sunday and he is going to price the gun to me. Give me an idea as to what would be a good price

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Gary Grace
S&WCA #1837

Today I saw a pre Model 37 at a show that a dealer had just gotten in. He had not yet decided what he wanted for it. I would easily rate it at 99%+, it still had the original alloy cylider with a faint hint of a turn line. It was a square but and of course it had a flat latch. I am going back to the show on Sunday and he is going to price the gun to me. Give me an idea as to what would be a good price

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Gary Grace
S&WCA #1837

That's a rare gun with a square butt (book says 900 made). It's not safe to shoot.

I've never seen one. In that condition, It has to be worth 1K. I'll bet I'm low too.

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"I also cook."

Thanks for the fast response. This one also had a "bug screw" di all have that?

I'll post more on Sunday

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Gary Grace
S&WCA #1837

No, I've seen aluminum cylindered guns without the bug screw.

I still kick myself for passing on one with the bug screw at a show last year. It's finish was severely challenged from being carried loose in a pocket with coins, etc., but its asking price was only $200! I paused long enough to think about it because of the scratches, and someone else plopped the money down on the table.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Here's one with the "bug screw" that shipped January, 1954. I had it on handejector's table at Tulsa a few shows ago with $1100 on it. Rick Nahas (who's the noted authority on all things
Airweight) looked at it and told me that was a good price.

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John

I don't recall seeing a Square butt. I would try to buy it. There is apparently no rhyme or reason on the bug screws.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I got the pre 37 today at the show today. It has the bug screw, a square butt and still has the original aluminum cylinder.

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Gary Grace
S&WCA #1837

WAY to go.
Cool gun.
Number?

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

It is 33207

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Gary Grace
S&WCA #1837

Gary, just for reference the one in my picture above is serial# 43926.
I'm surprised yours doesn't have a more pronounced turn line, the finish on the alloy cylinder scars up pretty easily.

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John

John

Mine was shipped in July 1954. I do not think it was ever fired. I wonder how many square butts are still around with the original aluminum cylinder. I also got a Chief's Special Red Box with the gun, but not correct for it

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Gary Grace
S&WCA #1837

Really neat gun Gary. That is also a low number I believe.
Let's see the box label. Are you sure it is not correct. I would not be surprised to see a corrected label on that gun's box.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Lee

Here is a picture of the box lable. As you can see there is no overstamp on the box. There is also no number on the bottom. This gun had not been in the hands of a collector and came from a private person

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Gary Grace
S&WCA #1837

I just acquired a flat latch, 4 screw w/ AL cylinder and 4 digit serial number starting at 1xxx. Picture to follow

The 4 screw J frames started in 1955, so an early Chiefs Special Airweight would have had an SN well into five digits. Interested to see the photos...

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I have a 4-screw Chiefs with an aluminum cylinder that shipped July 31, 1953, but it's a 5-digit sn.

Eager to see the photos, too.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

M-1911, I am interested in the dimensions of your square butt's box, since I bought a red Airweight box marked "Square Butt" for my "boxless" square-butt alloy-cylinder Airweight Chief number 290XX and the gun will not fit in the box! (I ran an extensive thread on the gun and box several years ago, and the conclusion was that the box was marked in error.) 290XX shipped June 24, 1953.

I also have alloy-cylinder round-butt Airweight Chief number 272XX, which shipped April 7, 1953.

I have been fascinated with alloy-cylinder Smith & Wesson revolvers since I first noticed the weight variation in the catalogs when the alloy cylinder was replaced with the steel cylinder. I did not know why the weight variation until becoming educated about the alloy-cylinder revolvers. If I recall the cataloged-weight correctly for the alloy-cylindered round-butt Chief, it is 10.75 ounces unloaded! That is light. Not until the Model 317 appeared was there a Smith & Wesson revolver that light.

While I am a Colt guy so I am not well-educated in all things Smith, I do not see how an Airweight Chief could have a serial number in the 1XXX range. Would not that be a 1951 serial number? As I understand it, the Airweight was not introduced until 1953. I too will be interested to see the pictures.

According to Roy Jinks' book, History of Smith & Wesson, "The Chiefs Special Airweight was introduced on September 12, 1952, with the first revolver bearing serial number 1,785...."

Roy doesn't say whether the first ones were made on the Baby Chiefs frame with five screws or, like the ones in the 27XXX through 29XXX range, were 4-screw "Model of 1953" Chiefs.

Additionally, Supica and Nahas in their Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th Edition, say the Airweight was introduced in 1951 with a 5-screw frame, but those seem to have been assigned "X" (experimental?) serial numbers, and they were "quickly changed to 4 screw for 1st production run."

Trying to tie all this together, "wiskerchew" could have found one from that first run. Hope he'll come back and let us know with photos.

Roy does note (not related to Airweight models) in the Chiefs Special database under this forum's "Downloads," that Chiefs Special serial number 225 had an "over-size trigger guard," and that gun shipped on "September 4, 1951."

This all leads me to question the "Model of 1953" designator, because it seems there's a chance the longer trigger guard, at least, might have been on the street as early as 1951. Of course, I have found no mention of the grip handle length getting longer till the Airweight models of 1953.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

Two-bit, If memory serves, and it doesn't much these days (or I would have remembered the reference in the SCSW), I think someone on the Forum has an early Airweight with the old round trigger guard and five screws. It may have been pictured in my Airweight undersized square butt red box thread for some reason, or perhaps in another Airweight or Airweight box thread. Anyone remember who it was - if it was?

Hopefully, some pictures will be posted that will further clarify what wiskerchew has.

I just purchased one with original red box s/n is 29xxx. Ship May 1953 as it came with factory letter. To answer your question about I paid north of $1K but less than $1500. It still has Aluminum alloy cylinder as well. It came through a forum and SWCA member. The sq butts are hard to find let alone with original alloy cylinder. I’m a collector so I’m ok with not firing. ( I also buy lots that I do fire) But according to Roy Jinks letter the factory will replace cylinder with a steel one and also give you back the original. I haven’t picked mine up yet as I’m in another country right now. $1K is a good price if everything is right. They really are quite rare.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Howdy JudgeC,

I went back through as many of those 2008 - 2011 threads as I could find. I couldn't find anyone who claimed to own, much less had even seen, a 5-screw Airweight. Some said they'd heard of them, but that's about it.

Clear back then, already, you were saying, "If memory serves, and it doesn't much these days."

Eagerly awaiting wiskerchew's next post.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

Two-bit, I went back and reread my thread. I think what I was thinking of above, IF memory serves, which ..., etc., one of the posters argued that the language in the SCSW left open the possibility of a square-butt, alloy-cylinder (Airweight) with the early round trigger guard variation. If anyone has such a rare item, I have a box for it!

Here is some more info on the Airweight Chiefs Special with alloy cylinder.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Judge can you post a pic the end label and bottom of box? Thank you ever so much.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Yes, I can, but, since I have already done so in my March 2014 thread on this curious box, I see no reason to do so again. Here is the link to the thread, with the picture and lengthy discussion of this curious box (please excuse the transposition of the "u" and "e" in the word "question" in the heading, a common typing mistake for me!):

Red box qeustion: Why won't my square butt Airweight fit in its box?

Hi Judge,

I rather believe mbliss57's request was more related to the serial number on the bottom of the box, a photo of which is not posted in your original thread. The box's sn could help determine whether the box is truly for a Baby Chiefs Airweight (I think).

The five earliest Airweights on my list are in the 24XXX sn range, and I believe those are "Model of 1953" Chiefs -- not Baby Chiefs -- but I've not been able to determine that for sure. I am quite sure the ones in the 27XXX through 29XXX are all Model of 1953 Chiefs.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

To "muddy the water" a little more, here are my two pre-37 with alloy cylinders.
The square butt gun has a later style flat latch, bug screw, and J frame stocks. Serial 29011.
The round butt has the earlier style flat latch, no bug screw, I frame stocks (as found on the baby chiefs), but not the small trigger guard found on the baby chiefs. Serial 28663.

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