jvelke, though I've not been part of this conversation I applaud your gracious offer to those with an interest.
Kudos to you, sir.

__________________
John

John I bought a copy of your excellent book on a trip to WVA and have enjoyed it very much. Thank you for your hard work and contribution to the history of Law & Order.Tony

Mr. Velke, Wow! You just made my day sir, the e-mail is in the mail. I can't wait to read that one. Thank You, and may I be the first to welcome you to the S&W forum. And I hope your search is fruitful.

Rod

Thanks all who have contributed to this post (and others like it)! You folks make this Forum worth while - and Thanks, Para for sponsoring it!

Jerry

Don't know how I missed this thread earlier.

I live in Letcher County (on the VA line between Pike and Harlan Counties)and attended Pikeville College in the late '60s.

Anyone interested in the wars/feuds on the KY side of the WVA line might consider John Ed Pearce's excellent DAYS OF DARKNESS which goes into great detail concerning the Hatfield/McCoy racket, the Howard-Turner Feud of Harlan and Clay County, the Perry and Breathitt feuds, the Rowan County war, etc.

A long-time student of East KY's feuds,

Rich

sunday bill, that sounds like a good read, I'm adding it to my evergrowing list. Do you know if it happens to include the Holbrook-Underwood feud from Carter County Ky.?

Jelly. No it doesn't.

Looks like;

-Harlan (Turner/Howard Feud; not the coal wars)
-Breathitt (among the bloodiest, historian Stephen Bowling says this feud had more men killed on the courthouse square in a month than the 14 or so who died in the Hatfield/McCoy misunderstanding; lasted many years)
-Pike (hosted parts of the much publicized Hatfield/McCoy feud)
-Perry (French and Eversole Feud; French faction featured Bad Tom Smith)
-Rowan (Martin/Tolliver Feud)
-Clay County's Hundred Year War (The Turners and Howards made life so miserable for each other, both sides packed up and left Harlan County. Both sides settled in Clay and picked up where they left off. The feuds,there, had already been ongoing for many years)

Some of the mountain feuds appear to have carried over from the War of Northern Agression. Our SCV camp (The Col. Ben Caudill Camp, #1629)has set over 1000 Confederate gravestones(in several states and 50+ KY counties)since Nov. '94. Several of them were for Holbrooks buried in Letcher and Breathitt Counties.

Having ancestors who were involved in the Breathitt and Perry feuds has always caused me to have an interest in them.

Rich

sunday bill, that does sound interesting. From what I had read many feuds were the results of bad feelings left over from the war, but not all of them.

Ben Caudill camp huh? I found your camps website while researching several of my relatives, who I had no idea were veterans. In that part of Ky. it wasn't talked about very much. Anyway, I exchanged e-mails with a gentleman I think his name was Tharon(?) Sparkman. I have Caudill ancestors but am not sure if I am related to Col. Ben Caudill or not. I am now a member of the SCVs camp #1658 in Tallmadge, Ohio.

This thread is awesome! My family is from a bit south of there (Georgia) but we numbered veterans from the Confederacy on both sides; also, few know that Oregon raised money and troops for the South...the 1st Oregon Confederate volunteers fought at the battle of Goleta Pass in Colorado at the end of the war. I have a Starr carbine that dates from that conflict. Do any of you know if there is an SCV camp out hereon the left Coast? It would be interesting to chart history.

MikeyL
S&WCA #2010

Congratulations to the both of you on your ancestry.

MikeyL, We (as a camp)have been in contact with Combs folks whose ancestors migrated from the Letcher/Knott/Perry County KY area and now live near The Dalles, Oregon. They are members of an SCV camp in that area. Can't remember but I'll look up the name and address of the camp if you'd like.

Jelly, Most folks from this area served in:

-5th KY CS Infantry, which became part of KY's Orphan Brigade (after Lookout Mtn., I believe).
Several of my granddaddies served with them early in the war. They saw action with the 5th at Princeton (near Bluefield, VA/WVA line), Middle Creek, Ivy Mountain and Wireman Shoals in KY before Capt. Ben Caudill was promoted to Col. in the late summer of '62 and sent home to Letcher County to recruit a mounted regiment. He had been their Capt. in Co. F of the original 5th and most of the men in that Co. followed the Col. to his new mounted outfit.

It was at Wireman Shoals some of them borrowed Union rifles they later had shortened and carried throughout the war, after they became horse, serving with Col. Caudill's 10th KY CS Mounted Rifles (which became the 13th KY Cav in early '65 when some pencil pusher in Richmond decided to re-enumerate CS outfits.

-Diamond/May's 10th KY Cav (later re-numbered the 14th KY Cav).

-Fields' Partisan Rangers

-Caudill's Army (variously known as 10th Mounted Rifles, 13th Ky Cav) It is this regiment on which we have focused the bulk of our research.

I'm part Caudill, too. My mother is a Caudill family genealogist. 4 Caudill brothers, 2 of them Revolutionary War vets, (James, Jr. and Stephen served at Kings Mtn, other VA and NC sites)came here. Matthew and Thomas Aaron also migrated here.

Most East KY Caudills can trace back to one of these brothers. A very small number descend from another Rev. War vet and brother (Ben) who took his payment for war services in the form of some GA real estate.

Oh, Faron Sparkman was the camp's second commander and remains our most active researcher with regards to burial sites.

Edit: If I can help you relate to your Caudill ancestors just e-mail me what you already know. I'll volunteer my mother's services.

Please excuse my long-windedness,

Rich

sunday bill, Thanks for the info, long windedness is fine depending on how the wind is blowing.

The only family history I have on them is from the oblevins.com site, which I should write down because I know websites can disappear suddenly. I also realize they make small mistakes.

According to that site my ancestry follows back to Matthew, of the five brothers you listed. Matthew, Abner, Afred, Abner and Elizabeth who married my Great Great Grandfather Abner A. Tackett. Abner Tackett served with two of his brothers under Col. Ben Caudill and so did another one of my great great grandfathers, John C. Oney. The only real information I have found on Col. Caudills units came from your camps website, thank you again. John Oney left a three page autobiography which didn't inculde enough information. He said he was captured and held prisoner but didn't say which battle or prison camp. He said they were offered to go west to fight indians and were promised they would never have to fight any Confederate troops, which he accepted. He said he would rather die fighting indians than at the hands of the yankees like all the rest of the prisoners. He mentioned one patrol where he was the only survivor and had felt an indian lift his hat to club him but someone had shot him first. He was still fighting them when help came and chased the indians away. Since he was a galvanized yankee there was never anything said about this battle. He mentioned he stayed out west for seven more years before returning to Ky. but doesn't say a word about what he did there in the mean time.

Now I'm getting long winded.
Does the geneology match up with what your Mom has? Thanks a lot, cousin.
Rod

MikeyL, sorry I missed your question earlier. You might try looking here. http://www.scv.org/campLocator.php
And thank you for the info, I wasn't aware of that.

Jelly, What I know:

*Ref. the Caudills, controversial author and lawyer Harry M. Caudill told me he spent a fortune hiring professional genealogists to research the Caudill surname in Europe and the British Isles and didn't learn diddly.

It's my considered opinion, based largely on information from Dr. N. Brent Kennedy and his Melungeon Research Team, that our Caudills descend from the Caudillo families listed on the roster of the Santa Elena (Spanish) satellite settlement between Johnson City, TN and Middlesboro, KY. Are you familiar with any of this?

*Col. Caudill was the grandson of Stephen Caudill; Stephen was a brother to your Matthew. You'd be some degree of cousin to the Col.

*Matthew, Jr. married a sister to one of my ggg Granddads; they are buried about a mile from my house. Don't know Matthew, Sr.'s burial site.

*Although Faron bought his home from an Oney family in Hazard, we have struggled with the Oneys, five of whom, including 4th Sgt. John C., were in Caudill's Army. Although some of them were living in different counties in 1860, all of them enlisted 14 Oct. 1862 in Floyd County. All of them were placed in Co. F. We think John C. was captured in Wise Co., VA, 25 June 1863. He arrived at McLean Barracks, 18 July and was admitted to a hospital in Cincinnati the next day. He arrived at Camp Chase Prison 6 Sept. 1863 and was taken to Rock Island Prison 14 Jan. 1864.

I didn't have time to talk to my mama tonight and won't be back until Sunday evening. I'll verify the Caudill info early next week and get back to you.

Ol Rich, from the breezy side of your family

Um, No.
sunday bill, This has turned out to be a very informative thread indeed. Thank you for all this, I'm going to have to copy it down. I have an uncle that is an Oney although he is in poor health and I don't know if I'd be able to get any information out of him or not. John C. was related on my mothers side of the family and there are a couple of cousins that are researching them, I don't know how much Oney info they have. I didn't know for sure he was a Sgt. either, I'd seen something on the internet ,and it might have been on your camps website, but didn't know if it was the same one. I asked in their forum but don't think any one ever answered.

We probably should continue this off the forum if you don't mind. I would like to know if you have any info on my other ancestors service. My e-mail is [email protected]

Thanks a lot Rich, I really appreciate this.

Just an up-date.
I received the copy of "The True Story Of The Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency" that author John A. Velke III so kindly sent me yesterday. I haven't had a chance to start reading it yet but I did look at chapter 20: "The Guns Of Baldwin Felts" which was written by Richard Mann. This chapter answers my original question. Apparently the guns the agents carried were purchased by themselves and weren't issued, so the chances of finding one lettered to the company would be rare to impossible.

It also stated that the agents carried a wide variety of firearms from the major and some smaller manufacturers. And there was an interesting fact that was rather surprising. William Baldwin was an excellent marksman and used a S&W New Model no.3 chambered in 38-44, but he also had a Mauser 1878 revolver, possibly chambered in 10.6mm caliber, that he used in at least one gunfight.

Also, I hear a lot of people talk about a "New York reload" referring to people carrying two handguns. I also heard it recently, that's why I'm bringing it up now. This was a very common practice with men who carried a gun for serious work that dates back many, many years ago. And from what I have read the Baldwin-Felts agents were no exception. Hollywood has a way of distorting history. I just don't know what it has to do with New York.

And I would like to thank John again for his generosity, browsing through his book it looks like it's going to end up on the top shelf.

"We probably should continue this off the forum if you don't mind. "

If you decide to do that, could one of y'all cc me as well? I shoot with a North-South Skirmish Association unit, the 34th Battalion Virginia Cavalry CSA, and their men came from the same general area: Tazewell and Buchanan Counties in Virginia; Lincoln, Logan, Mercer, McDowell, and Watne Counties, West Virginia; and Carter, Floyd, Lawrence, Martin, and Pike Counties, Kentucky. A number of men from other border counties were also enlisted in the unit.

While my direct ancestors went from Virginia to North Carolina to Alabama, I'm sure some others wound up in the Appalachians.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Muley, I only suggested that because I thought it would be too boring for everyone else. And I didn't want the thread to stray from guns either.

Jelly, I believe “New York reload” comes from the famous policeman Jim Cirillo’s habit of carrying two Model 10s as he lay in wait for Cuban homicidal maniacs who were terrorizing the bodegas of NYC in the early ‘80s after the Mariel boatlift.

Cirillo was killed in a traffic accident last summer. The excerpt below is from a recent article on him by Mas Ayoob:

….His most famous gunfight occurred in a dairy store. Three fast-moving armed robbers entered in such a way Cirillo's partner, armed with a shotgun, didn't have a shooting angle, and Jim had to face the deadly trio alone. Jim shouted "Police! Drop your weapons!" And everything went to hell.

As one opened fire on Jim with a High Standard Sentinel .22 revolver, two others managed to put a terrified, frozen clerk between themselves and the lone lawman as they brought their guns to bear. Three seconds later, it was over. Jim had shot all three of them with his Smith & Wesson Model 10.38 Special revolver, two of them out from behind their human shield, who was unharmed. Cirillo told me later his strongest memory of the incident was seeing his front sight in such huge, stark clarity he could observe every flaw in the grooves that ran across it. The sight on a 4", heavy-barrel Model 10 is 1/8" thick….

Thanks Onomea.

there is a an old Baldwin Detective Badge made of sold gold on the market on a popular internet site at the moment. It would be for the period late 1800s to 1910 before the agency became Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency.

The 2013 Gun Digest has an article on the courthouse shootout that occured in Hillsville, Carroll County, Virginia, in 1912. There is a wanted poster for the involved members of the Allen family. It was printed for Baldwin-Felts and mentions a Roanoke, Virginia location, as well as the previously mentioned Bluefield WV office.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Harlan County USA

I actually have two of the BF Thompsons. One was kept at the Bluefield office, and the other at Pocohontas. Velke is the expert on the agency.