This is my second post on this subject - I don't have a clue as to what happend to the first.
I have acquired a 2" revolver, K frame, round butt, diamond grips
It is marked revolver, lighweight, M13 on the upper left toptrap
It is marked Property of U.S. Air Force on the backstrap
The numbers match on the frame, cylinder (aluminum) and barrel (C259XXX)
Two matching numbers (different from the frame #s) appear on the frame and the crane in the crane opening
The barrel has smith and wesson in small lettering on the left and 38 spl. ctg. in slightly larger letters on the right
The right grip has the frame number on it - inside
The left grip has (179) embossed on the outside between the checkering and the backstrap
There is a small p on the lower left front of the frame near the crane
There is a holster marked USAF on the flap and part number 55D3513 on the front/side and it has a white braided lanyard attached through a hole in the barrel end
It appears that a strap is missing from the holster - there are two buckles attached to flaps on the holster that seem to need another piece
I have sent for a letter from Jinks (now $50)
Gun and holster are in true 99% condition - unfired/unworn/unused, with only the tiniest of dings on a few of the sharp edges of the piece - I am a TOUGH estimator of condition
What do you-all think?

I think you'll know a lot more when you get Mr. Jinks's letter back; that will tell you if the serial number belongs to a genuine Air Crewman.
There is a seller in Southern California who has craftily engineered very good copies of this gun in the past. It's possible to take a demilled frame and rebuild it into a remarkable semblance of an original gun.
It's been suggested that prospective buyers get a letter from Mr. Jinks (or demand one from the seller) before buying these guns.
Best of luck on yours.

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John

I have heard that there are many fakes of this version but my inspection didn't really reveal any discrepancies - I am a rather astute expert on Winchesters which are also regularly faked and feel that it is genuine. However, who knows?
I also considered that the person I purchased it from is a very wealthy collector, he also had a genuine (proven) Colt Aircrewman which is even more unusual, and he has had this gun for 20 years or more.
Thanks for your reply. I can only hope.
Any idea on the value of a "proven" original?

Nahas and Supica's Standard Catalog of S&W 3rd. Ed. lists "Excellent" condition value as $2000.
They list your partial serial number as within the range of manufactured Air Crewman.
Real world value is whatever a collector of these will pay for it.
Hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge will chime in.

__________________
John

Do you have any photos to post? Sounds like a very interesting revolver and holster rig. I'd like to see it

Post some photos especially of the top and back-strap markings. If you letter the gun Roy offers the following caveat due to the number of fake guns. " This letter can only verify that a particular serial number was shipped to the United States Air Force. It cannot authenticate whether the revolver is original or rebuilt." My gun shipped July 25, 1957 to Robbins Air Base, Warner, GA. Perhaps Ed will give a good assessment if you provide good photos. Here are some photos of my gun. John

twaits - post your email - I don't know how to put photos on the forum and haven't taken any yet. I would be happy to forward you some detailed pix. The same goes for anyone else who would like to see it and help me with ID.
I realize that the Jinks letter only confirms the origin.
hsguy - mine appears identical to what I can see of yours but is in much better condition - my holster also has a few extra parts than yours shows, namely, I have the back flaps and straps for the shoulder strap but not the strap itself - other than that everything looks identical even the braided cord at the bottom. My holster is also virtually unused/worn. Thanks for the interest guys.

hsguy - I just noticed that your example is of the four screw variety - what's up with that???

hsguy - I also just noticed that the barrel markings on your version are reversed from mine.

twaits and hsguy
I just looked over my gun and it is indeed a five screw. Additionally the fifth (top) screw in the sideplate also has a very tiny aditional screw that appears to be a setscrew holding the upper sideplate screw in place (?????)

BOBR94, yours is an earlier 5 screw gun and the small screw locking the top sideplate screw is called a "bug" screw. My gun is a later 4 screw gun. The barrel markings were reversed on the earlier and later guns. John

That was called a Bug screw and was usual for S&W revolvers of that vintage. DO NOT mix up your screws. Each is unique to the hole it fits in.

The correct spelling is Aircrewman, not Air Crewman.
There is also a J-frame version.

Apart from those two, all K and J-frame guns used by the USAF had the normal steel frames , to my knowledge. The Airweight guns had light alloy cylinders, and were found to be unsafe. Do not shoot yours.

I don't know why the USAF didn't just have Smith fit steel cylinders to the Aircrewman guns. Maybe they also realized that the frames weren't too durable in millitary use.

Colt also supplied the Cobra in an Aircrewman version. It, too, is highly collectibile.

T-Star
P.S. Sorry: my post crossed with the one above. HSGuy knows about the Bug screw, too. (My Smilies have disppeared I was going to post a winking one here.)

twaits, got your message. Will try to post soon.
BOBR

Texas star
I have no intention of removing any screws - the only thing I did was check the grip number. Thanks for the info.

BOBR94,

Is your complete SN C259874? (There is no problem with posting complete numbers, contrary to Internet myths). If so, I believe it to be an authentic and original Aircrewman. The next issue of the S&W Collectors Association Journal will have an article on 2" Smiths used in military service, including the Aircrewman revolvers. The last issue of The Rampant Colt (Colt Collectors Association) had the companion article on 2" Colts used by the military.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

Were they all flatlatch??

Kwill1911
Yes. How can I get a copy of the S&W Journal? Thanks for the info - how did you know about the SN?
BOBR94

Go here and sign up! http://theswca.org

Kwill1911,
Since I am not a true S&W collector (I do the Winchester 1894) just a fan with a few of their better efforts, 5 screw pre-29, 5 screw pre-27, 36-1 Target and the Aircrewman, I am reluctant to part with $60 for a copy of one journal - is there any other way to buy a single copy or just a copy of the particular article about the Aircrewman? You didn't say how you got my SN.
Regards, Bob

Bob,
I'm sure any of us will be glad to scan and email the article out of the journal for you when it comes out.
I passed on a commercial with aluminum cylinder and bug screw a few months back at a local show. It didn't have much finish left, but I still regret not picking it up. IIR, it was less than $300. It was the first one I have seen in person.
Chris

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Thanks cgt4570
I didn't even know there was a commercial all aluminum model - what was the model number? I do remember the Model 12 and Model 37 airweights but I thought they had steel cylinders.
Thanks for the article offer I will be sure to take someone up on that very generous and friendly gesture. It would go great with the Jinks letter.

BOBR94, All the above info is correct. I believe that from your description, you have a genuine example of the S&W Aircrewman M13 revolver & correct holster, and apparently in excellent condition, and condition is everything to do with value for these guns. I would estimate a 99% K frame Aircrewman to be worth between $2500-$3000 in today's auction market. Your grips should be numbered to the gun, so look at the back of the right grip panel to see if the number is there. Restored guns seldom have the original grips. Holsters for these guns are more plentiful than the guns, so check the internet vintage holster sites and the auctions for a complete example. Pictures of complete holster, with all the staps, etc are shown on pages 375-377 of Meadows book, "US Military Holsters and Pistol Cartridge Boxes" These holsters were made by the Service Manuf. Co., Yonkers, NY., and other makers. The long number stamped on your holster is the military contract number, not a serial number. Also, if you want more tech. data on your gun, get a copy of the Army Technical Manual TM9-2027 "Ordnance Maintenance Cal. .38 Special Lightweight Revolver M13" dated July 1956. I think repo copies are available from Abby Books for about 10 bucks. Your gun was shipped from S&W to Rock Island Arsenal in about April-May 1953. Roy Jinks letter will verify that. As you know, the S&W designation for this gun is the Model 12 and the M!# is the military designation. Most commercial Model 12s have the steel cylinders, however some early production Model 12s were shipped with the alloy cylinders, so they occasionally turn up. S&W offered, and still offer, to replace the alloy cylinders in these commercial revolvers free of charge, if the owner so desires. Hope this helps, Ed.

Bob,

Prior to 1957, they didn't have model numbers. The guns in question would be referred to as Chiefs Special Airweights (pre-37s) and M&P Airweights (pre-12s). The first of both had alloy cylinders (both military and commercial production). They were quickly replaced with steel due to cracking. The early ones also had the bug screw. These are also seen on the very early Pre-Model 38s and Pre-40s, if I remember right. FYI, don't ever send one with an alloy cylinder back to the factory for any reason. They will replace your cylinder with steel and destroy the old one!
Chris

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Hi Bob:

Your Aircrewman was up for auction for many weeks on Gunbroker. I assume that you are the guy who finally bought it for $1500 in June. You got a good deal as it is a nice, legit gun.

Kevin knows the serial number because, like some of us here, he studies the Aircrewman and pays attention to the details like serial numbers. These guns are regularly faked. The S&WCA, largely through the efforts of Rick Nahas but with help from Kevin and other members, maintains a Database on known legit and faked Aircrewman revolvers to keep track of the real vs. the not-so-real. (Another benefit of S&WCA membership.) I suspect that the Winchester guys probably do the same sort of thing with their scarcer models.

Since you said you can't post pics for the benefit of others here is a pic of your gun taken from the GB listing. A sorta crummy pic, which is probably one reason why it took the seller so long to sell that gun.



BTW, Kevin is too modest to say so himself, but he is the author of both of the articles on the 2" USGI revolvers published in the CCA's Rampant Colt and in a forthcoming issue of the S&WCA's Journal.

Regards,
Charlie Flick
S&WCA #729
NRA Life
S&WHF Member

Ordnanceguy et al,
As you said it was apparently posted for quite awhile on the GB site. It probably wasn't as noticed as it should have been because it may have been listed as a Model 13 -would have fooled me, M13s are nothing special - I'm not a real Smith guy but I do remember hearing about these "Aircrewman" models and was happy to find it - actually, I was most interested in his Swiss Luger and then discovered the Smith on his "other items." I researched it as best I could and was apprehensive about it being a made-up piece but after speaking with him decided he seemed like he was a good and honest guy. The damn Luger was scoffed up right before my eyes on buy-it-now while we were discussing the AC, that's when I "pulled the trigger" so to speak. Heard he had a Colt too - that would have made a nice pair. The Smith certainly turned out a lot nicer than I expected. It's a beauty and a real keeper for me. At the price I probably can't go too wrong.
I thank all of you guys who helped me out with authentication info and, yes, Kevin is a great guy. I'm primarily a Winchester 1894 guy and we have a similar group who watches for the phonies, misrepresentations and alerts the misguided. It's refreshing and makes you feel secure. I'm glad I found you guys.
I sent one member some detailed pix that I hope he can post on the forum for me - and you-all - I'm computer "challenged" in that regard.
In the scheme of things, how many of the genuine article seem to have survived? I'd be interesed in any variants also - just for my own education - it seems that good reliable info is at a premium.
No matter what, there's no way I'm starting a new collection of anything at my age.
Regards to all,
Bob

Bob,

I just got your photos. I'm downloading them into photobucket so I can resize them. The images are huge. Great photos though. I'll post them for everyone to see asap.

-Erik

Here's the first picture. I'm posting this one first to make sure I sized it small enough to work on the forum. I will post the rest when I get them all loaded in.

Attached Images

	ac01.jpg (87.2 KB, 164 views)
	ac02.jpg (94.4 KB, 151 views)
	ac03.jpg (93.0 KB, 136 views)
	ac04.jpg (80.5 KB, 152 views)
	ac05.jpg (63.3 KB, 152 views)

Here's the holster pictures

Attached Images

	ac07.jpg (47.7 KB, 90 views)
	ac06.jpg (44.6 KB, 89 views)

Thanks twaits - I hope all the forum members enjoy!!!
BOBR

I am actively persuing the purchase of a pre M-12 civilian model with original aluminum cylinder. I pay fairly but do not overpay.
I am also looking for the shoulder strap (a VERY superior repro would do) for my Aircrewman model holster (see above pix) and an original box of M41 ammo. Any pertinent paperwork or manuals (repro OK) would also be considered.
Thanks.
Bob

I don't care for resurrecting dead threads, but noted that this very revolver was sold at auction last fall.

What is interesting is that RIA was suspicious about it's authenticity. The OP wrote that he had already requested a letter from S&W but the auctioneers make no note of such a letter accompanying the sale.

Copy of Smith & Wesson M13 Revolver with U.S.A.F. Aircrewman's Markings and Original Leather Holster