I just picked this up at a gun show recently. A Smith & Wesson .38 M&P revolver Model 1905 4th change chambered for the .38 Special. This is one of the earlier guns produced just before they started heat treating the cylinders.

Serial number is 2902xx and all the numbers match. This gun still has it's original checkered walnut medallion grips (in excellent condition) and are numbered to the gun. The grips would put the date of the gun sometime between 1915-1920.

This gun is a six-shot revolver, has a six-inch barrel, and fixed sights. It is a five-screw square-butt K-frame. The blued finish appears to be all original with no signs of rebluing. Just a few rust specks peeking through the bluing in a few places. One side of the cylinder has some minor pitting. The barrel does have some holster wear on the bluing and the 'brushed' appearance is evident. The chambers and bore are pristine and sharp! Doesn't look like this gun was used a whole lot. Probably spent a lot of time in a leather holster.

This is an earlier gun that has a couple of unusual features not seen on the later models. The ejector rod has the large mushroom knob on it and the underside of the barrel is cut deeper to allow clearance for it. The other feature is the 'hold open device' found inside the crane arm. There is a ball and spring inside the crane arm that locks into a small detent in the frame to hold the cylinder open. My very last photo shows this as I am holding the gun upside with the cylinder open. The 'hold open device' is what prevents the cylinder from falling back into the frame of the gun. I'm not sure when this was elimated but later production guns do not have it.

The markings on my gun are as follows:

- The underside of the barrel in front of the serial number by itself is the letter B, but that probably means a blued finish.
- Left side of the barrel is marked SMITH & WESSON
- Right side of the barrel is marked 38 S.&W. SPECIAL CTG
- Top of the barrel is marked SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A. PATENTED OCT.8.01.DEC.17.01.FEB.6.06.SEPT.14.09.DEC.29.14

There are no other markings anywhere on this gun. What is unusual the S&W trademark is not there along with the MADE IN U.S.A. I examined every part of this gun and there are no factory rework or rebluing markings anywhere. According to the SCSW3, it is not uncommon to find guns missing some of those markings.

The SCSW3 states that the square-butt frame for the 4th change is scarce and is worth about two times the value. Can anyone out there elaborate on this. I have seen a lot of square-butt K-frames out there. Personally, I don't think they are scarce at all. The prices out there don't seem to reflect on this.

There were over 750,000 of these revolvers made in the 4th change and finding one is not hard at all. Mine is an earlier one with checkered walnut gold medallions. You normally don't find these early ones very often. My gun is in almost excellent condition. Just that minor pitting on one side of the cylinder and some holster wear on the barrel are the only real detractments. I paid $440 for it from a gun dealer at a show.

Any comments out there!

jsmith








I am holding the gun upside down allowing the 'hold open device' to hold the cylinder in place.

I think you did fine, I also believe the book meant Round Butts no square.
I have a few of the 4th change but they are the target models, one serial number 24756X has a ship date of Jan, 1916, these are Pre War guns, and have the large knob on the extractor rod.
My other M&P Target has a 1923 ship date 45624X but has the standard grips non medallion, which I think the medallion grips like you have are much nicer on the earlier guns. Your gun is most likely shipped in the same year or one later than mine 1917.

Very beautiful revolvers!!!! Those are my favorite classic Smith !

The "hold-open device" is completely new to me. Can anyone tell me what HE models utilized this feature and in what years of manufacture it was found?

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David Wilson

What I referred to as the 'hold-open device' was new to me also until Hondo44 told me about it in another thread of mine. He said all the K and N-frames had it until about WWII. In the .32 I-frames I do know that the Model 1896 and Model 1903 (original) have them because I have both of these models and has this device in them. I don't know exactly what it is called but it was referred to me as a 'hold-open device'. Interestingly, this is something that is not mentioned in the SCSW3 and most collectors don't even know about. One dealer that I do business with knows about this device and even he says that most experienced dealers and collectors don't even know about it.

This was post #9 sent to me by Hondo44 on 4/1/2009 at this thread: S&W 32 Hand Ejector 1st Model (Model 1896)

jsmith,

That is a fine revolver! They certainly are different from all the following models. There is one other little-known difference from the rest of the I frame guns. It's the only small frame with the cylinder 'hold open device' used in all the K and N frame guns prior to WW II and discontinued in all guns after the war. The next model .32 no longer has the device. If you pull the crane out of the gun, you'll see a detent in the frame side of the hinge and a pin & spring in a hole in the crane side of the hinge. I like the feature and have toyed with installing it on some non-orginal post war guns.
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Jim
S&WCA #819
NRA Life

Its a spring assisted plunger that is part of the yoke assembly. I know its on the 32HE 1st and on the 38M&P of 1902. Not sure from memory how many others but I'm pretty sure Supica/Nahas lists which models.

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Pace

Beautiful revolver!

The spring loaded plunger in the yoke went away sometime in the mid 1920s or so after probably 400,000 or so Kframe variants were produced. The plunger hole remained for a while after the plunger & spring were deleted.

OH I would like a pic of this.
Peter

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Need 1/2 moon Chiefs special

Here's a picture of a hold open from a M&P 1st Mod from Jan. 1901. The pin sticks out of the back of the crane, and the small depression in the inside of the recess of the frame. I also found one in my Brazilian 1917, which dates to Apr.1946 (made from left over parts from the original 1917's).

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I Know its an old thread but I have a 32-20 that needs a bit of attention on the font of the cylinder because of hard closing/opening.
How do you remove the cylinder from the yoke in these models?
I have searched but only found the easier way on the model 10s.
Thanks
Ron

Once you have the yoke & cylinder assembly removed from the frame, (by removing the front screw on the side late, and sliding the assembly carefully forward), you unscrew the ejector rod, most probably a right hand thread, put at least three fired cases in the cylinder and put a leather pad around the rod so it won't mar, and use a pair of pliers over the leather pad to unscrew the rod. Once the rod is removed slide the cylinder off the rod just like any other model S&W.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Thanks Richard,
The ER I can unscrew by hand and is RH thread, it and the spring come out along with the ejector spider.
Then the Cylinder is still affixed to the yoke with no way I can see it fixed or am I not seeing it ??
Ron