Navy Seals use of Model 66s or 686s?

Coldshooter · #51 01-08-2012, 07:54 PM

Not SEALS but did Navy law enforcement or Naval Intellegence issue the Model 66. May be urban legend but I thought I once read round butt with 4 inch barrels.

1 old 0311 · #52 01-08-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian894x4

I didn't mean to suggest that it "needed" be modified, but was just curious if it was.

I was thinking more along the lines of action jobs, and in today's modern warfare environment, would they be modified with night sights or flashlight adapaters or anything like that. Maybe any modifications to make them more friendly in the water...i.e...better sealed up gun..or maybe the opposite, holes drilled to allow it to drain faster.

One thing that I wonder if was changed was grips. I'm not sure how the factory wood grips would do in a salt water environment and if maybe they wanted anything different.

SWAT type teams regularly modify their weapons, or have specific add-ons or toys, so that's where I'm coming from.

I'm curious what kind of holsters they use(d) and how they packed the things plus carrying spare ammo. I probably have a lot questions that answers would not be easy to come by.

Look at what the Customs Office did with the CS-1. The 686 was strong to begin with but they had S&W do the mods THEY thought were important. Wouldn't surprise me if the SEALS did the same type of thing.

murphydog · #53 01-08-2012, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldshooter

Not SEALS but did Navy law enforcement or Naval Intellegence issue the Model 66. May be urban legend but I thought I once read round butt with 4 inch barrels.

NIS (now NCIS, of TV fame) did issue a RB 4" model 19, many of which were later transferred to the FBI. Regarding the model 66, there are published accounts of these being acquired (not through standard issue channels) for the SEALs, it being the only corrosion-resistant gun then available in a major caliber.

earplug · #54 01-08-2012, 09:33 PM

Curious why the 45 ACP 625 was not employed instead of a .357 686? Weight is pretty close and A stainless moon clipped 45 ACP would be easy to handle and not so hard on the eyes or ears at night.
Only reason I can think of is the power of the .357.
Long slender .357 cases don't load as fast as short fat 45 ACP cases with a moon clip.
I want to know what type of Speed Loader reloading device is used. Or is this a fire 6/7 times and reach for something else type weapon?

TAROMAN · #55 01-08-2012, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earplug

Curious why the 45 ACP 625 was not employed instead of a .357 686? Weight is pretty close and A stainless moon clipped 45 ACP would be easy to handle and not so hard on the eyes or ears at night.
Only reason I can think of is the power of the .357.

Penetration could have been a big factor in this decision.

Stu Honea · #56 01-09-2012, 01:41 PM

Very good thread.I had heard on several occasions that the SEALS had used Mod.66's,but never bothered to try to confirm it. Doesn't surprise me that they did,tho.
Revolvers are still not dead for many applications and I don't think they ever will be.
A little off topic,but the hushpuppy was mentioned in this thread. I know that the Mod.39's got some bad press for various reasons in years gone by,but I think it was a great pistol. I carried a mod.39-2 as duty pistol in the seventies and it was a hell of a shooter and mine was dead nuts reliable.
I still have an all steel version,the 539. in minty condition and wouldn't take anything for it. It feeds modern HP's like the HST's and others without a bobble. These are ,to me ,the best feeling and fitting auto pistols ever made.

Double-O-Dave · #57 01-09-2012, 10:56 PM

FWIW - I've read several books written by former Navy Seals, and they mention carrying and using Model 66 and Model 686 revolvers. No modifications or details were mentioned about the revolvers, unfortunately.

Regards,

Dave

Drail · #58 01-09-2012, 11:04 PM

Dick Marcinko's books have always led me to believe that team members could and would use pretty much anything they wanted if it enabled them to accomplish the mission. They were not subject to any real "rules" which is as it should be. Those men should get anything they want right now no questions asked.

18DAI · #59 01-10-2012, 10:22 AM

Chuck Pharrar mentions in his book "Warrior Soul" that he was issued a 686 upon reporting to SEAL Team 6. This was post Marchinko though. Regards 18DAI

squidsix · #60 01-10-2012, 10:55 AM

.357 magnum is not in our supply chain. .45 ACP, .38 SPL +P, and 9mm are. Easy.

jspick · #61 01-11-2012, 01:09 AM

My friends step son is a seal. I do not know the level of his training, but they only shoot semi autos, from what he has said.

John

squidsix · #62 01-11-2012, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphydog

NIS (now NCIS, of TV fame) did issue a RB 4" model 19, many of which were later transferred to the FBI. Regarding the model 66, there are published accounts of these being acquired (not through standard issue channels) for the SEALs, it being the only corrosion-resistant gun then available in a major caliber.

True, and still strue today. A good friend has an "ONI" rollmarked model 19-2, round butt, four inch barrel, and yellow front sight insert. He's an NCIS agent, and carries this every day. He gets 2 cans of the "FBI" load ever quarter to train.

reitejl · #63 01-14-2012, 03:41 PM

I'm using Facebook messaging with a my sons best buddy who is a Seal in the middle east somewhere and they carry Sig 226's or 228's.

shadowrider · #64 01-14-2012, 09:27 PM

I'm curious as to what lube the SEALs use for small arms.

riverrat38 · #65 01-14-2012, 09:54 PM

"I'm curious as to what lube the SEALs use for small arms."

salmon oil! :-)

Pgothro · #66 01-14-2012, 10:49 PM

My brother is a retired Seal Master Chief and noted that they train with 686's (66's in the past) as well as semi autos and they can choose both but most go for semi autos because of capacity fire power dosent count for much in close quarters (1 in the head 1 in the chest) with hours and thousands of training rounds. Also 9mm is readily available in most of our enimies countries.

lipripper · #67 01-14-2012, 11:26 PM

not in the supply chain.?c'mon.

Pgothro · #68 01-15-2012, 01:00 AM

Seal teams are not required to order from the supply system. Those and many others are standard in every team armory.

texagun · #69 01-15-2012, 09:36 AM

I just finished reading "American Sniper: The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History" by Chris Kyle, a former Navy Seal with 160 confirmed kills. He spent 3 tours in Iraq and was active in all the major campaigns. He goes into great detail about the firearms the Navy Seals currently use. Their issued small arm is the Sig P-226 in 9 mm. His opinion from his battle ground experiences is that the 9 mm. round is essentially ineffective against drug-laced insurgents. They would take several hits without going down. He bought a Springfield Operator in .45 ACP that he used with much greater effectiveness, and eventually replaced that gun with a Sig P220 in .45 ACP which he used with great effect. He made no mention of ever using a wheel gun as a Navy Seal.

KaGee · #70 08-13-2012, 11:43 AM

There was a special edition Model 66 (4 in.) produced for Naval Investigative Service in 1988. 333 were issued. Came with a glass top presentation box with the NIS badge etched in glass.

nipster · #71 08-13-2012, 12:04 PM

Revolvers, I dont care if stainless or not I dont think would hold up long term in any sort of salt water environment. (no firearm would)

The chrome lined bore of the barrel sure wouldnt like it

Above that, inside the action, the rebound slide spring, cylinder stop spring and cylinder release bolt spring and sear and hand spring would be the first to go. Especially the later two.

The rebound slide itself, trigger and hammer on earlier 66's and 686's re chromed, so they might be ok for a while.

Wonder what the procedure was to de-salt the revolvers were? I would bet the armor would at minimum do a full disassembly and after thoroughly rinsing all of the parts individually, soak them in deionized water for a period of time, then fully clean and oil with something like hoppes or CLP, followed by reassembly with a replacement of all springs.

MP1518 · #72 08-13-2012, 12:09 PM

Seals DID use model 66.I know that Team 2 used it for sure. By used it, I mean that You were able to check one out if You wanted to. There were NOT a std issue . Winchester STHP and/or Remington 158 FMJ.

cochise · #73 08-13-2012, 02:32 PM

Model 15 's and model 39 9mm were available when I was on active duty,68 - ,72. I was in ordanance, UDT 21 and UDT 22, never saw a model 66 but heard they were around.

MP1518 · #74 08-13-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cochise

Model 15 's and model 39 9mm were available when I was on active duty,68 - ,72. I was in ordanance, UDT 21 and UDT 22, never saw a model 66 but heard they were around.

You could check out a 66 around mid 70's. I will try to find an old photo. PS. After 1973 it was about MP5's.

tc215 · #75 08-13-2012, 03:04 PM

This info comes from someone that works in the NSW armory on the east coast:

Quote:

No one carries a 1911 anymore. They all disappeared circa 2004, along with the 686's and .22LR's.

The Mk23 is still around on a very limited basis, until the number of Hk45's arrive to replace them.

Sig 226 is the workhorse pistol. Most are Classic P226's, sans rails. The 226R was an interim replacement as the Classic 226's wore out. The Mk25 is so new very few have actually arrived, and without a holster...............they sit on the shelf doing nothing.

mayo258 · #76 07-03-2016, 09:26 AM

To set the record straight, the Teams did in fact use the 686. I was both a west and east coast Team guy from 1989 to 2015. The 686 was used when diving due to it's stainless steel construction. We also had Sig 226's which we used when we expected more intense gunfights. I also carried the 686 in a shoulder rig when in the jungle for the same reason. Unless you were constantly cleaning it, the Sig would rapidly develop surface rust on the slide. The 686 would go a week in the bush and simply need a quick wipe down to be GTG.

As for ammo, the supply system had .38 Special, but the local gun store always had .357. Worth the cost out of pocket to get the most out of the 18 rounds I carried.

As for semi-auto vs. revolver firepower, my use of the 686 was a first line backup when the SHTF and my M4/203 was out of commission. Intent was to shoot the bad guy then pick up his AK.

texagun · #77 07-03-2016, 10:00 AM

mayo258,
Welcome to the forum. Very interesting 1st post. So you were "both a west and east coast Team guy from 1989 to 2015."? Under Military Status on your profile it shows "none". After 26 years as a "team guy" you might want to update it. Looking forward to more posts from someone with your experience.

Pa.Bill · #78 07-03-2016, 10:04 AM

List never ends.
What ever they are connected to sells out in a day and when they put the Anchor on the Sig that hit an all time high.
They use everything/anything that works.
They used Glocks before they became popular. But Glocks brakes one of the general rulings, no external hammer.
The US Military changing sidearm- I don't know who controlled
it but they F$%^&* it all up for 5 to 7 years.
From all the rumors out there the S&W was the only one I have not heard.
The last Official List - US Changing sidearm: Sig 227, H&K Tactical 45,
Fn 45 Tactical and a few others.
Revolvers as a general sidearm is surprising. The only reason I remember, less sound in tight places.
One thing is for sure- the day they go to a knew sidearm, the market will flood out with used 92's.

Pa.Bill · #79 07-03-2016, 10:27 AM

38 +P's are very good and mostly forgotten when 9 mm became popular.
357 I have been shooting since 1974.
Very powerful and most can't handle it.
But with a little practices, 100 yard shoots are much easier
then most would think. We have been doing this 100, 75, 50 yards since the 1970's. ( S&W Combat 19/38-357/ 6"barrel.. Also XL Hunter 38-357/ 6"barrel/Scoped........... the 19 is more accurate then the Hunter. Even if its 40 + years older)

daddy bear · #80 07-04-2016, 04:38 PM

BigCleo, that is exactly the way my Sig 228 is equipped. The dot rear sight lives in the box. I was a pioneer at TXDPS, in scheduled night time firearms training. My troopers at first thought I was crazy, but we soon learned that a lot of available light existed, even on moonless nights. They
soon got the hang of it and if they could see it, they could hit it. Amazingly, we realized that the glow from even small west Texas towns reached for a few miles. And sure, we worked on flashlight use at times. It doesn't have to be mounted to a gun to be useful. For sure, lights are so much better than they were in the early '70 that there is no real comparison. Again, the front sight is the key.

Jack

S&WIowegan · #81 07-04-2016, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian894x4

I've read some snippits here and there of the Seals using both Model 66s and Model 686s. Nothing concrete, just a lot of snippits, including things like Seal Team 6 was the only one to use the 66 and the rest used 686s, that they were used because stainless steal was easier to deal with in salt water environments.

I've also read that the Seals might "still" use the 686 in some cases, because it's less likely to jam in silty water, etc, etc.

I'm curious if anyone has a more detailed account of their use by the Seals. And especially any pictures or information on when they were used, how they were carried (where and holsters, etc) and specificly what models were used. Were they only 4" barrel models for example, or did they carry 2.5 or 3" versions too?

Also, if any modifications were done to them...i.e. changes in sights, internals or anything else?

It just really peaked my interest when I read this and I'd like to find out as much as I can about their use by the Seals since I'm a big Model 66 fan. If there's a website or anything that I missed while trying to search I'd appreciate the link too.

I figure these were probably all mid 1960s guns so that's why I posted in this section. Thanks for any insight or info.

This zombie thread has come to life and I noticed this first post could use some actual dates of introduction of stainless revolvers by S&W. The stainless Model 60 came first in 1965. The Model 66 was introduced in 1970 and the Model 686 came out in 1980. All these dates are in the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson.

99savage308 · #82 07-06-2016, 03:36 PM

clif58,
Really ?

amd6547 · #83 07-06-2016, 04:56 PM

I read the book Point Man, by Patches Watson, recently.
Model 15's were mentioned several times by that famous SEAL.

mayo258 · #84 09-01-2016, 07:16 PM

S&WIowegan:

FYSA - Reference Dick Marcinkco's first book, "Rogue Warrior" (1992). Both the enclosed pics and text on page 222 mention Model 66s. By the time I was in BUD/S in 1989, we'd switched to 686s.

Basque1 · #85 09-02-2016, 03:23 PM

US Navy SEALS have pretty much open door to use a lot of weaponry while on duty, in my 20 years in the NAVY I don't ever recall any SEAL using SW revolvers, for the most part I saw SIG 226 and 229 . Here is a link that might provide an idea as to what they use.
Navy SEALs Weapons
Lou

loc n load · #86 09-02-2016, 04:46 PM

I was at S&W attending the revolver armorer's school in the 80's. My bench mate was a SEAL, there was another SEAL in the class also. I remember the fellow I shared the bench with telling me that they would cut a groove into the sight ramp and install tritium lamps (harvested from bow sights) in them to make a night sight for the revolver. I borrowed that idea and used it in my own shop.

jack2ndbas · #87 06-20-2017, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian894x4

I've read some snippits here and there of the Seals using both Model 66s and Model 686s. Nothing concrete, just a lot of snippits, including things like Seal Team 6 was the only one to use the 66 and the rest used 686s, that they were used because stainless steal was easier to deal with in salt water environments.

I've also read that the Seals might "still" use the 686 in some cases, because it's less likely to jam in silty water, etc, etc.

I'm curious if anyone has a more detailed account of their use by the Seals. And especially any pictures or information on when they were used, how they were carried (where and holsters, etc) and specificly what models were used. Were they only 4" barrel models for example, or did they carry 2.5 or 3" versions too?

Also, if any modifications were done to them...i.e. changes in sights, internals or anything else?

It just really peaked my interest when I read this and I'd like to find out as much as I can about their use by the Seals since I'm a big Model 66 fan. If there's a website or anything that I missed while trying to search I'd appreciate the link too.

I figure these were probably all mid 1960s guns so that's why I posted in this section. Thanks for any insight or info.

We used the 686 in the 1970's, w/ a chest holster.
If we were going in the salt water.The ss stands up better than the blued finish and it doesn't jam up in silty / salt water.

kwill1911 · #88 06-20-2017, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack2ndbas

We used the 686 in the 1970's, w/ a chest holster.
If we were going in the salt water.The ss stands up better than the blued finish and it doesn't jam up in silty / salt water.

Thanks for jumping in, thanks for your service and welcome to the forum.

Texas Star · #89 06-20-2017, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack2ndbas

We used the 686 in the 1970's, w/ a chest holster.
If we were going in the salt water.The ss stands up better than the blued finish and it doesn't jam up in silty / salt water.

That 's a pretty good trick, considering that the gun wasn't even MADE until 1980-81.

I was a gun writer then and was invited to an early introductory range session when the L-frame models were introduced.

Citiboy289 · #90 06-20-2017, 07:09 PM

What a great thread

jspick · #91 06-20-2017, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Star

That 's a pretty good trick, considering that the gun wasn't even MADE until 1980-81.

I was a gun writer then and was invited to an early introductory range session when the L-frame models were introduced.

You beat me to it!

John

digiroc · #92 06-20-2017, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary Gary

Way back in 1985? I had a SEAL TEAM buddy get orders from SEAL TEAM ONE ( West Coast ) to some SEAL TEAM on the east coast . As soon as he got there he called me and wanted to buy his jump gear back from me that he had sold to me...

I kept my gear, No skydiver wants to jump unfamiliar gear. Here I am airing it out after 30 years in the pack. I'm wearing a "Boot" from a chainsaw cut to my leg so I couldn't jump that day.

Think it's still good after three decades of disuse? My 547 was. I have a waterproof "swim" holster for it in case I fall in:

digiroc

ABPOS · #93 06-20-2017, 11:23 PM

Somewhere on my computer I had a pic from Marcinko's book of a guy (supposedly a SEAL) with a ski mask (or was it like one of those race car masks that has an oval for the eyes) holding a 66 in his right hand, looking like he's going through a door. But I can't seem to find the dang thing right now.