I've read some snippits here and there of the Seals using both Model 66s and Model 686s. Nothing concrete, just a lot of snippits, including things like Seal Team 6 was the only one to use the 66 and the rest used 686s, that they were used because stainless steal was easier to deal with in salt water environments.

I've also read that the Seals might "still" use the 686 in some cases, because it's less likely to jam in silty water, etc, etc.

I'm curious if anyone has a more detailed account of their use by the Seals. And especially any pictures or information on when they were used, how they were carried (where and holsters, etc) and specificly what models were used. Were they only 4" barrel models for example, or did they carry 2.5 or 3" versions too?

Also, if any modifications were done to them...i.e. changes in sights, internals or anything else?

It just really peaked my interest when I read this and I'd like to find out as much as I can about their use by the Seals since I'm a big Model 66 fan. If there's a website or anything that I missed while trying to search I'd appreciate the link too.

I figure these were probably all mid 1960s guns so that's why I posted in this section. Thanks for any insight or info.

Hi:
I am interested also in the fact that revolvers were used instead of semi-autos?

I never saw a 66, but the Teams at Little Creek VA did use 686's. I saw two at the SEAL Team display at NAS Oceana in 2004.

One was submerged in an aqarium tank. Periodically the sailors would pull it out and fire it (blanks).

I did hear that LCDR Marchenko wanted stainless S&W revolvers, but don't recall what became of that request.
Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI.

Well I have a 686 in my bag of tricks and the Seals like to copy what I do - - so it wouldn't surprise me

It is sort of interesting - AND - what would the duty round have been? I've never seen any mil-spec/Hague-compliant .357 ammo. I'd hate to depend on .38 spl. 130 gr. FMJs for anything critical.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

145gr Winchester Silvertips

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Doug "N Frame Addict"
CO

Dick Marcinko's book shows a picture of a Seal team Six training exercise where the boarding team is carrying/pointing Model 66s.

When I went to firearms instructor school in the mid 90's there was an active duty Navy Seal going through the same class. That dude sure could shoot, and he was the only one who could still function after taking a face full of pepper spray. (He took the blast, held his eyes open with his fingers, and told the instructor "I could kill you right now". Not sure if that was a threat or a mere statement of fact.)

Anyway, in conversation with him one day he mentioned he "swam a 686", which I took to mean he carried one when scuba-ed. I know they work underwater, and I imagine a contact shot with one would do the trick.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Because the SEALS are often deployed against terrorists, they probably are not hindered by the Hague Accords prohibition of hollowpoint or lead ammo that applies to war between nations.

I know that French equivalents use whatever .357 ammo they want, including some pretty exotic stuff. They have employed Manurhin MR-73's and S&W 586's. French cops also use a variety of other Ruger, Manurhin, and S&W .357s. One Manurhin model is based on Ruger's old Security-Six, with refinements. But later actual Rugers also see use, often with Trautsch grips.

I think the SEALS do still use stainless S&W's, and not just with Hague Accords "legal" ammo. However, their primary handgun is the SIG-Sauer P-226 9mm, with a Navalized finish. I believe that SIGARMS also offers that finish option to civilian buyers.

T-Star

This is all cool info. Thanks for chiming in. I wonder if aoyone has any pictures on the net somewhere. I never thought to ask which round they might shoot out of the things, but that was a great question too.

The idea of them using S&W revolvers at all is one thing, but the idea they still might be using them today is just flat out amazing. I have to imagine that while the original Seal revolvers might have been stock, that anything used today, must be modified in some ways.

I worked at a training facility in NC which a lot of SEAL teams used. Back in the early 1990's they were still carrying a lot of Model 66's.

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John

The SEAL Model 66 revolvers are shown in Richard Marchinko's book.
They had Hogue rubber Mono-Grips fitted.

The holsters appeared to be an upright type nylon shoulder holster fastened tightly to their vests.

The Teams now have huge support organizations including world class gunsmiths.
They can have any modifications they need to their guns, so some probably have modded S&W revolvers, or even several with different mods.

In his book Marcinko said they wore out S&W .357s regularly. Don't recall which model though.

Huh...apparnetly his book is available online by google and you can basically read and search it for free. At least major parts of the book. Weird stuff. Here's a couple of interesting and relavant excerps....

Definition of "Smith": Smith and Wesson, Generally a .357 Model 66, stainless steel revolver with 4" barrel

"Desert Target Practice during Training of Seal Team Six. Those Model 66s got real hot too".

"The Men Hung silhouette targets and then practiced aquiring a sight picture and squeezing the trigger of their stainless steel Smith and Wesson Model 66 .357s"

(Listing gear) ".....Smith and Wesson Revolvers in stainless steel, so they wouldn't rust when we swam with them".

"...Delta used .45s, while my unit used .357 or 9mm...."

Check out "Weapons of he Navy Seals" by Kevin Dockery. He is one of the curators of the Seal Museum and covers the history of firearms used by the Seal Teams in depth. Both the 66 and 686 were used.

I hate being a "I have this buddy who..." guy, but one of my good friends honest-to-God just finished his enlistment as a SEAL. He was stationed in San Diego, and he unequivocally told me that they used 686s for some situations due to its salt water resistance. He specifically brought it up with me because he remembered I had a 686 when we were in high school and let him shoot it.

However, he still preferred the SIG 226 9mm because it was simply ingrained in him through the training.

Speaking of holsters......I've got a vintage ballistic nylon piece, most definately mil-spec (built like a brick *****house). Manufacturer was a company called "Elevated Urban Operation" (or somthing to that effect....I'll have to dig it out of storage to remember for sure). It's a full flap, secured with lots of velcro and most definately made for a 4" K frame (though there's no model designation on it that I can recall)

Perhapse it's got a military history???

In this book, it says the 686 is used for (among other tasks) "live" fire using primer-only .357 cases plugged with wax as the projectile.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Way back in 1985? I had a SEAL TEAM buddy get orders from SEAL TEAM ONE ( West Coast ) to some SEAL TEAM on the east coast . As soon as he got there he called me and wanted to buy his jump gear back from me that he had sold to me . At that time he mentioned that when he arrived at his new command he was issued a Stainless Steel S&W Mod. 66 and that he was to be carrying it " at all time's " . He mentioned something to the effect that his new TEAM was very intense . He said that he needed his jump gear back and was willing to pay me more then what he sold it to me for becouse he had to have it right away and he needed it overnighted to him ? I don't till this day know what that was all about . Now I don't remember ever having the SEAL TEAM SIX conversation with him but as I can recall I assumed that this is where he went . At that time as I can recall SIX was the only TEAM actively carrying anything " at all the time's " let alone a revolver .
That's all I know , or can remember .

I kept my gear, No skydiver wants to jump unfamiliar gear. Here I am airing it out after 30 years in the pack. I'm wearing a "Boot" from a chainsaw cut to my leg so I couldn't jump that day.



Think it's still good after three decades of disuse? My 547 was. I have a waterproof "swim" holster for it in case I fall in:



digiroc

Last time I was at the Seal Museum in Ft. Pierce, Fl, there was a nicely engraved 686 with white (pearl?) grips that was labeled as having been presented to Richard Marchinko by some of his troops. Beautiful gun!

So it's safe to say that the SEALS did carry and use both the 66 and 686 in the past and perhaps still do among many other type of firearms.

^That would have been the "X-147". It was an experimental early pre-59 prototype. Some say it was made of stainless, but that I can't confirm.
The HushPuppy was a fact! And I think there is a photo of one in one of the 39 threads in the autopistol section.
Both were before my time in service.

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

I don't know any seals,but I was friends with a dolphin that used to pack a model 696

I think those were 5" barrels. However I could be mistaken.

While I'm not a SEAL, I've trained with them around the globe as a SF Combat Diver. We were training (shooting, diving, jumping) with them in Machrihanish Scotland during 89'(Tm 2). I do remember seeing 4" M66s in the arms room. Haven't seen any since. Tm 8 has always carried the SIG 226 in the Gulf when I've worked with them. Here in Astan they still prefer the 226.

CD

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De Oppresso Liber

da gimp-the air force had the model 10'sbut us army folks had 1911's that must have been Bora War Vets, because they were junk. They rattled so bad that an average VC mortorman could put the first round on you just from the noise comming off of these buckets of bolts. I was fortunate to get an as new model 10 from a civilian,a 4", which went wherever I did, all of the time. There were some bad "accidents" with the 1911's we had, and I just developed an aversion to it, as I did to the m-16. Still couldn't own anything gas impingement, I just would not be able to get past the broken trust issue from a psychological standpoint. I found out just a few years back the last 1911's the Army bought was in 1943! At least for those of us that Viet Nam Vets. No wonder they were tired. When we went to the range a Ft. McClellan, one guy just squeezed by with enough hits to qualify after a whole day on the range. Fortunately only 11C's had to qualify-11B's just had a familiarize requirement. There were all kinds of malfunctions, and they sent us over with that junk. I hope what they have now is better. Amazingflapjack

I can also confirm that while going through a certain Firearms Instructor school in 1995 there were 2 SEALs that did have their issued 686 4"s with them for the revolver portion. They were quite fond of the revolvers.

If you read Marcinko's books, it becomes clear that those guys practiced A LOT, serious practice at serious shooting. I would imagine that any gun one used that much, to such good effect, would become a very good friend, not easily abandoned for a stranger.

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Formerly Model520Fan

It warms my heart to hear of some of our best still using the "outdated" wheelgun in todays auto filled world.

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Sie vis pacem parabellum

+1; I was thinking the same thing!

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NRA Certified Instructor

Well I'll tell you to me and this is from my personal experience. One of the best all around S&W's is either a 4'' Modal 681 or a 581, fixed sights all the way and the full under lug barrel to aid recoil with full house loads. and for those folks who don't like the extra weight a Modal 64,65 or any of those bull barrel fixed sight Modals the only modifications that I would recommend would be is milling off the front sight and dovetailing it adding Trintium Night sight and drilling two in serts for the rear.

I gotta admit that's a great idea! But I was wondering if one of those "Big DOT" sights by Ashley could be made to work?
As for them using "outdated" tech, well revolvers do tend to work very well at bad breath range! Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

You know I was at the range the other day and noticed one thing that those 3 dot night sights really suck. I shoot much better with the dot front sight and the white outline rear or the bar dot or just plain dot front and black rear night sights. Much easier to find the front sight then lining up the three dots.

One of my horseshoeing clients is a former SEAL from the mid-80's. I asked him this question. He stated that they could pretty much carry whatever they wanted depending on the mission requirements and that it was not uncommon to see someone packing a revolver. He personally never carried one tho.

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Dyin ain't much of a livin

Very interesting thread. I'd like to see it start up again with more info. Any takers?

Not SEALS but did Navy law enforcement or Naval Intellegence issue the Model 66. May be urban legend but I thought I once read round butt with 4 inch barrels.

NIS (now NCIS, of TV fame) did issue a RB 4" model 19, many of which were later transferred to the FBI. Regarding the model 66, there are published accounts of these being acquired (not through standard issue channels) for the SEALs, it being the only corrosion-resistant gun then available in a major caliber.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

True, and still strue today. A good friend has an "ONI" rollmarked model 19-2, round butt, four inch barrel, and yellow front sight insert. He's an NCIS agent, and carries this every day. He gets 2 cans of the "FBI" load ever quarter to train.

Curious why the 45 ACP 625 was not employed instead of a .357 686? Weight is pretty close and A stainless moon clipped 45 ACP would be easy to handle and not so hard on the eyes or ears at night.
Only reason I can think of is the power of the .357.
Long slender .357 cases don't load as fast as short fat 45 ACP cases with a moon clip.
I want to know what type of Speed Loader reloading device is used. Or is this a fire 6/7 times and reach for something else type weapon?

Penetration could have been a big factor in this decision.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Very good thread.I had heard on several occasions that the SEALS had used Mod.66's,but never bothered to try to confirm it. Doesn't surprise me that they did,tho.
Revolvers are still not dead for many applications and I don't think they ever will be.
A little off topic,but the hushpuppy was mentioned in this thread. I know that the Mod.39's got some bad press for various reasons in years gone by,but I think it was a great pistol. I carried a mod.39-2 as duty pistol in the seventies and it was a hell of a shooter and mine was dead nuts reliable.
I still have an all steel version,the 539. in minty condition and wouldn't take anything for it. It feeds modern HP's like the HST's and others without a bobble. These are ,to me ,the best feeling and fitting auto pistols ever made.

FWIW - I've read several books written by former Navy Seals, and they mention carrying and using Model 66 and Model 686 revolvers. No modifications or details were mentioned about the revolvers, unfortunately.

Regards,

Dave

Dick Marcinko's books have always led me to believe that team members could and would use pretty much anything they wanted if it enabled them to accomplish the mission. They were not subject to any real "rules" which is as it should be. Those men should get anything they want right now no questions asked.

Chuck Pharrar mentions in his book "Warrior Soul" that he was issued a 686 upon reporting to SEAL Team 6. This was post Marchinko though. Regards 18DAI

.357 magnum is not in our supply chain. .45 ACP, .38 SPL +P, and 9mm are. Easy.

My friends step son is a seal. I do not know the level of his training, but they only shoot semi autos, from what he has said.

John

38 +P's are very good and mostly forgotten when 9 mm became popular.
357 I have been shooting since 1974.
Very powerful and most can't handle it.
But with a little practices, 100 yard shoots are much easier
then most would think. We have been doing this 100, 75, 50 yards since the 1970's. ( S&W Combat 19/38-357/ 6"barrel.. Also XL Hunter 38-357/ 6"barrel/Scoped........... the 19 is more accurate then the Hunter. Even if its 40 + years older)

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NRA Life VVA Life USN Seawolfs

I'm curious as to what lube the SEALs use for small arms.

"I'm curious as to what lube the SEALs use for small arms."

salmon oil! :-)