I've been cleaning guns since I was 12 years old and was taught that the barrel is clean when wet or dry patches run through it come out clean. At times this is easier said than done. Today I cleaned my 29-3 which I recently bought NIB. I've put a total of 350 rounds through it, 200 since the last time I cleaned it (150 copper jacketed followed by 50 lead). Today I started with Break-Free foam, waited 15 minutes, ran a brush through 8 times followed by patches. Then I used M-Pro 7 Bore Cleaning Solvent, ran a brush through another 8 times and followed with a number of patches alternating dry and solvent soaked until it was mostly clean. Then I used M-Pro 7 Copper Remover followed again by a brush and a series of patches which took quite a few before coming up nearly clean. Then I ran a patch through with M-Pro 7 CLP and it came out with dark black lines. After another 10 or 12 times through alternating wet with dry the patches were coming out a lot cleaner but not clean. Between the barrel and the cylinder I spent about 2 hours which is why I'm asking how necessary is all of this? I shoot all of my guns and don't see them as investments, but I want to keep them well enough maintained to last for the rest of my shooting life. Any thoughts on how much cleaning is really necessary to keep a gun in good working order?
Thanks.

Personally, I think people ruin more barrels by over cleaning than by shooting them out. I used to try to keep cleaning till the patches came out clean..........now I just run a brass brush through a few times followed by a couple of solvent soaked patches and then a couple of dry patches. If the barrel looks bright with no visible signs of lead or brass I'll run a patch through with "light" oil and then I'm done. JMO.

Don

__________________
Laus Deo! <><

Depends if you ask a marine or just a regular shooter I usually run a brush through the bore and knock the loose stuff out, then I put a solvent soaked patch through the bore. I personally let the solvent soak for at least 15 minutes, or longer before I start scrubbing hard on it. That seems to have improved my cleaning efforts substantially. I can usually get a clean patch pretty fast using this method.

Here, here! I agree 100%!

kscardsfan: FYI, it is a tradition among we Marines, past and present, to always use an upper case "M" in typing the word, irrespective of grammatical rules to the contrary.

__________________
Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

I'm a bad one to ask that question. Friday night was fun shoot night, got in around 9:30 and started cleaning the Model 29 and the Model 36, finished up about 12:45, but they are cleaner now than the day they were purchased.
I thought I heard my husband grumble something about the house being as clean as my guns are.

__________________
Μολὼν λαβέ

Personally, I use a Hoppe's Bore Snake with Break Free, making sure there is a light coating in the bore and chambers afterward, and I am done. For really dirty looking bores/chambers I use a foamy cleaner to loosen up the crud, then clean as usual. You can wash the Bore Snake after using it on a really dirty gun.

I wouldn't worry so much about the solvents and patches more than the multiple passes with the brass brush in terms of inducing scratches and wear.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I have owned and shot guns since 1970 when I got out of the Army and I believe you guys are working to hard at the gun cleaning. I clean my rifles and handguns after every range visit or hunting trip.

On S&W I take the cylinder out of the revolver and then I run a bore snake down the barrel with Hoppes #9 on it 3 or 4 times and it shines like new and then I do the same through the cylinders. I have a bore light and inspect the results of the cleaning and unless there is build up in the bore I'm done with the bore and cylinders. If there is build up then I run a bore brush on a rod and clean it until the build up is gone. I then clean the exterior of the gun down with Hoppes and clean all the powder residue off and after wiping dry I coat the crane with gun oil and reassemble the revolver. Then I usually apply a coat of Renaissance Wax after every 2 or 3 visits and the gun is good to go. This usually takes 15 to 20 minutes about revolver.

I've never had a problem with rust or a revolver not functioning or shooting as it was designed to.

How clean is clean enough? Depends. A bore scope will amaze you by exposing to view all the remaining fouling, both carbon an metal, after most cleaning sessions. With smokeless powdeer and modern jacketed bullets, cleaning for bore preservation is relatively simple and most bore solvents seem to remove sufficient carbon and metal fouling to keep the gun shooting well and prevent rust.

When one ventures into the world of corrosive primers as found in much surplus ammunition, a lick with a boresnake won't get it. The bore must be washed out with water to remove the corrosive salts, then metal fouling removed with a good solvent. Break Free will not protect against or remove corrosive primer residue; I learned the hard way.

What ever you are shooting, if the gun is plated, go easy on the finish. I bought a beautiful 25-5 nickel plated revolver that was immaculate to include the face of the cylinder. It had been so over cleaned that the plating on the face of the cylinder started coming off after firing a couple hundred rounds.

With modern ammo, I am convinced that you can over do the cleaning pretty easily.

I always shoot lead first then jacketed second, in the hopes that the jacketed bullets will help remove any lead residue. I note this is the opposite of what was done in the OP. It may be worth a try next time.

I mostly shoot jacketed bullets so I follow the "clean but don't over clean" model.

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

+1 I agree with Don (and his sig) ;-)

Marine clean has always been just fine by me.
Bill@Yuma

I also agree that more guns are damaged by excessive cleaning than by firing. Cotton patches and bronze bore brushes WILL NOT scratch your bore. Be wary of stainless brushes however as they are harder and should only be used on the worst fouling, and sparingly at that. The greatest risk of bore damage during cleaning is when inserting the cleaning rod through the muzzle. If not very careful and if done too much the rod can easily rub against the rifling at the muzzle crown. Too much of that can deform the crown and result in diminished accuracy. My advice is to clean it enough, no more.

__________________
S&W Armorer
Lost in the 50s

Jack Flash mentioned the practice of shooting the lead first and then the jacketed to clean the lead out. I "used" to subscribe to this practice and never had a problem, but....

The current best practice seems to be shoot the jacketed first and then the lead - as the OP stated. If sufficient leading occurs, a dangerous pressure spike can occur from shooting jacketed bullets down the leaded bore. And the jacketed bullets can actually "iron" the lead to the barrel so that it is harder to clean out.

YMMV

What works for me, I usually field strip, clean, and reassemble the guns at the range while the metal is still warm I run some solvent patches (2-3) I then clean the other parts of the gun after that I use the brush a few times and then follow with a few solvent and oil patches it all takes less than ten minutes per gun. I then leave it overnight so that sweat out can occur. The following day I repeat the process a little better and everything comes clean LIKE NEW but every year or two they all get a detailed inside and out cleaning. Guns are designed to be a little dirty if not they would all jam up from pocket carry or with the dirty powders used in today's commercial ammo. -happy cleaning-

I don't believe that you will ever get completely clean patches out of a AIME 4140 chrome-moly alloy steel barrel. No matter how much you run patches through it you will probably see some graying on the patches. As others in this thread have correctly stated - many barrels have been ruined by over cleaning. Remember, you are cleaning a pistol barrel not an air gauged match grade bench rest rifle barrel.

Learned something new here. Thank you.

__________________
Dave

I run both ways. I have a "going to shoot it again soon" clean, similar to many mentioned, brass brush, Ed's Red on a patch, and a couple of dry patch follow ups. I also have the "putting it away for a while/lone term storage" clean, very similar to the a fore mentioned Marine Clean. Clean the snot out of it, and then clean it again until patches stay white and a Q-tip can't find anything in the tiny spots.

__________________
Dave

My pleasure, Dave.

__________________
Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

Wow a lot of "too much cleaning" can wear out a gun in this thread. This has been stated here many times. So I will ask again for the umpteen time.

DOES ANYONE HAVE PROOF OF THIS?

I doubt it, using the proper tools will not wear out a gun by cleaning it correctly. I obsessively clean my guns, have been doing so for over 30 years and never wore out a gun or decrease it's accuracy.

__________________
Dom

I have had 2 gunsmiths tell me tales of barrel replacement due to over cleaning problems. And an article in Field & Stream by David E. Petzal about bore life mentions it some too, although I don't remember the exact date of the article. Personally I think it is people getting too aggressive and banging the rod around the chamber and leade/throating of a rifle bore is what most people are referring too. Most handgun barrels, I don't feel, run this risk.

I doubt this is meant to be a literal statement.

__________________
John 3:16 .

"less is more" for me.

My barrels are probably never "Too Clean". But, I shoot long range rifle, (Prairie Dogs), and my barrels are clean enough to connect with "Dogs" out past 500 yards. I try to not shoot too fast, as Hot barrels tend to foul up faster than cold barrels. I try to not shoot more than 50 rounds without basic cleaning and resting for awhile.

In the field I soak a patch and run through the barrel and let it soak in for 20-30 minutes, then wipe out and run a bore snake through it. At the end of the day, I will fill the bore with bore foam copper cleaner, and let soak for at least 30 minutes, then clean out with shooters choice and several clean patch's. After several thousand rounds, rifles will still hold 1/4" to 1/2" at 100 yards.

Handguns are cleaned after every shooting. .22 RF will have one wet patch (on a plastic pull through) then 2 or 3 dry patch's. And the chamber area wiped out or with revolver the cylinder cleaned just like the barrel and the extractor, forcing cone, inside the frame, etc all wiped out. Since I predominately shoot lead, I have to use a brush with C&S "wool" on it to remove any lead deposits, after soaking in solvent (Hoppe's) for 10-15 minutes. Then follow with several dry patch's.

If I still have a line or two of gray on the patch's I don't worry about it.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I clean after every trip to the range, whether I fire 10 rounds or 100. It takes me about 45 minutes to clean a revolver, perhaps 1/2 hour with a semi. I clean a bore by putting a patch saturated with J & B Bore compound through it, followed by brushing with a solvent-soaked bronze brush, followed by solvent soaked patches (usually 2 or 3) followed by dry patches until they come out clean. I use the same procedure with the chambers of a revolver. Lately, I've been wiping down the exterior surfaces of my revolvers with a gun cleaning cloth. I'm careful to use only cloths that are marked safe for blued guns with my blued revolvers.

I use every cleaning session as an opportunity to thoroughly inspect each handgun. Every exterior screw gets checked for tightness, I check the cylinder to make sure it hasn't developed excessive play, the extractor and extractor rod get checked, and I make sure that the rear sight on my adjustable revolvers hasn't come loose (that has happened to me a time or two). I sometimes also check the tension on the strain spring. Finally, I shine a flashlight down the bore to look for lead or copper fouling and, if I find any, I take care of it. I finish every cleaning session by gently polishing the gun with a clean, soft, cotton cloth, and dry firing it for a few rounds, just to make certain.

Sounds pretty anal but, as I've said, the whole process takes about 45 minutes. I've also found and addressed some problems with my guns which were taken care of before they became acute. I've mentioned the loosened rear sights, but I've also had strain screws back out and extractor rods come loose and I've discovered these problems long before they became serious.

all the input is appreciated
___________
Archimedes 3.141592653...

I sort of clean mine, every once in a while. A couple of patches with Hoppes, a few dry ones, spray with Break Free, WD-40, whatever happens to be handy, wipe the crud off, a drop or two of oil here and there.

I can't see any difference from doing that than from when I used to worry about it.

__________________
John 3:16 .

Among us bonified grammar police, we know that your tradition serves you better than the wannabe grammar police. Most of y'all on this board who are referring to marines are referring to past or present members of the USMC, not just any old bunch of marines from some nondescript country. Since you are referring specifically to Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, "Marines" should definitely be capitalized.

__________________
Formerly Model520Fan

my cleaning is very quick. I run a bronze brush dipped in #9 through the cylanders and bore, then spray brake cleaner down bore and cylanders, run oiled patch down barrel and wipe down whole gun with oil.. done in 5 minutes

At the range, while still warm.
Pull through brush.
Squirt of Aerokroil in barrel & cylinder followed by pull through brush.
Let sit, barrel angled downward, while I dampen Bore Snake with Kroil.
Pull Bore Snake through barrel & cylinders.
Wipe down with slightly oiled rag.
If a significant amount of powder residue still exists, I might clean it better when I get home. Otherwise, that's it. (Unless it's going to pose for a picture. )

I tend to shoot correctly sized, Alox lubed lead, with an appropriate BHN for the velocity, so leading is seldom a problem with my 15-3, 19-3 and 686.

John

__________________
Age + Treachery = JohnnieB

Every thread needs someone who presents the other perspective, so here it is. I am an ex benchrest shooter and know that nothing destroys accuracy more than a build up of copper. If you used a borescope you would be surprised how rough most factory barrels are and how they retain copper fouling. It's just that less accuracy is not very noticeable in handgun shooting, but it is there nevertheless. I think it is important to remove the fouling.
However, since revolvers have to be cleaned from the muzzle, one has to be very careful with the cleaning rod to not rub one side. Cleaning rod damage to the lands at the muzzle end will be much more harmful than copper fouling.
So keep it clean but be careful.

__________________
Dick

I fully agree with Dick King's post, except that I would add that copper fouling probably affects most handguns less even than the less stringent accuracy requirements (compared to bench rest) would indicate. First, because the lower velocities probably result in less fouling, but, second, because even the same amount of fouling is going to have much less effect on a .36 caliber bullet weighing, say, 158 grains, or a .43 caliber bullet weighing 240 grains, than on a .24 caliber bullet weighing, say, 80 grains.

__________________
Formerly Model520Fan

There are a lot of lazy people who just don't want to bother cleaning their guns. At least its what I've concluded.

You don't need to look over your shoulder to see if the DI is watching. He's there, even if just in spirit. Remember, he's kind and gentle and will remind you of your failures.

In all fairness, many of us overclean our guns. And we over lubricate them. And it does no harm. On the other hand, under cleaning and under lubrication will certainly do significant harm. So we mostly err on the side of compulsive cleaning. Its a good thing. Even if you don't over clean every time, doing it once in a while is good.

I have a son who has never cleaned a gun. Ever. And he probably shoots more than me and the other son combined. Pretty scary stuff. But I've worn out one set of lips preaching, so I'm done. If he wants nasty gritty handguns, its OK with me. I guess. I just don't want him to inherit any of my treasures when I die. There are people who should own and shoot Glocks, he's one of them.

__________________
Dick Burg

Dick, if you put me in the will I promise to keep them as clean as the driven snow.

__________________
John. SWCA #1586

There was a reason for Marine Clean, or in my case Army Clean (circa 1963): A clean and properly lubricated weapon is an accurate weapon, is less apt to malfunction, and during the process of getting it throughly clean, you are more likely to spot any broken or extremely worn parts. Your weapon is your best friend, and if you depend on it to save your life, than that means a very through cleaning everytime you shoot it. The only excuse for a good cleaning and lubrication after shooting is pure cussed lazyness (per my DI).

There is a point of "saturation" when it comes to cleaning........you don't need to pop the sideplate off, detail strip and scrub the daylights out of every part. In fact overcleaning can do more harm than good.

I bought 2 revolvers, a S&W and a Ruger, from a guy who had OCD (for real) and the cylinder face on the S&W has been scrubbed of all the blue, the chambers look like the guy scrubbed them until he was sweating blood, and the sideplate looks to have been removed 1,000 times. He even said he removed every part of the gun each time he fired it......luckily he doesn't seem to have done any real damage. He had to torque each sideplate screw to a certain degree so the slots lined up, and he probably did unseen damage to the bore trying to sterilize it with a bronze brush, it is mirror bright which might not be a good thing....he was probably in there with metal polish and a Dremel for all I know....THIS is going too far with it......