roscoe13
Member
For a daily concealed carry gun, would you prefer a 2" M12, or a Colt Cobra, and why?
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M12 2" vs Colt Cobra?
- Thread starter roscoe13
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They are really two different animals. The Colt being more comparable to a J frame than a K frame. I don't have a M12, but I do have a couple of 2" Ks, 10 and 64. I do like the extra heft of the K when shooting, but pay for it in weight in carrying. The Colt D frames are much easier to conceal (IMHO) that the larger K frames. On the plus side the K can shoot unlimited amounts of +P while with the Colt small frames one had better limit the +P to serious social events and train with a similar weight non +P round.
Of course the unlimited +P may not apply to the M12 lightweight frame, in which case you just have a larger frame 6 shot .38 Special than the Colt.
My "retirement gun" just completed by C&S is a Colt 2.5" Diamondback .38 Special. Has the adjustable sights for various loads, a slightly stronger frame than the other D frames, and the best ergonomics for my hand in a small frame revolver.
I would think (I am NOT an expert) that since M12s are a little on the scarce side, if I had one, I would not shoot it but retain it as a collector item.
One thing I am sure of is that the alloy frame Ks are hard to find grips for, the frame is slimmer then the standard K frame, and other than custom made grips are going to be hard to find. If it has pristine factory splinters I would absolutely not carry it but preserve it.
Of course the unlimited +P may not apply to the M12 lightweight frame, in which case you just have a larger frame 6 shot .38 Special than the Colt.
My "retirement gun" just completed by C&S is a Colt 2.5" Diamondback .38 Special. Has the adjustable sights for various loads, a slightly stronger frame than the other D frames, and the best ergonomics for my hand in a small frame revolver.
I would think (I am NOT an expert) that since M12s are a little on the scarce side, if I had one, I would not shoot it but retain it as a collector item.
One thing I am sure of is that the alloy frame Ks are hard to find grips for, the frame is slimmer then the standard K frame, and other than custom made grips are going to be hard to find. If it has pristine factory splinters I would absolutely not carry it but preserve it.
Good question. I've been considering those two options for a while now. I don't have much to add. It maybe looks like the M12 might be a bit less in price that the Cobra (or the Agent whick I think is a 6-shot lightweight as well)
I'm holding out for either is the price is right.
I'm holding out for either is the price is right.
sheriffoconee
Member
Here is what you need to know
Smith>Colt
NOT to say I don't like Colts, but everything else being equal, I always go Smith and Wesson...I guess if that wasn't true I would be posting on the Colt revolver forums...
Smith>Colt
NOT to say I don't like Colts, but everything else being equal, I always go Smith and Wesson...I guess if that wasn't true I would be posting on the Colt revolver forums...
I've had Colts in the past, in fact a Colt DS was my first off duty/BUG. Could never get used to the DA trigger pull; it "stacks" at the end. Switched to Smith's for my revolver needs and never looked back. there is not much difference in diameter of cylinder and thickness is what makes the bulk. Personally, I like K frames and have a bunch of 2, 2.5 and 3 inchers. Wouldn't want to live without them. Bottom line, either one will do just fine but be careful of +P loads in either.
sureshotbob
Member
I've got both steel and alloy J frame's and a Model 12 and also have Colt detective special's and a Colt Cobra . the Colt's are nice but I do Love my Smith's.I have a simple solution to the +P ammo I do'nt use it .I use Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWCHP low flash standard load's in my carry gun's.
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Malysh
Member
I dunno about Mod 12 2 inchers being scarce. Maybe I've got my head in the sand but I don't think I ever see a week where ones are not for sale either on Gunbroke or other websites.
There seem to be a lot of them around.
There seem to be a lot of them around.
Texas Star
US Veteran
The Colt is more concealable, but has cylinder-timing issues, as do all older Colt designs.
T-Star
T-Star
Scary Gary
Member
I have a nice 1964 in the box Cobra.
And when I was in the Navy I had a S&W Mod. 12 .
The Cobra to me feel's cheap .
And as I recall the S&W did not .
And when I was in the Navy I had a S&W Mod. 12 .
The Cobra to me feel's cheap .
And as I recall the S&W did not .
StingrayG4
Member
The Model 12 has the size of a K frame, but the weight of a much smaller gun. I think it's a great .38. I have no experience with the Colt Cobra.
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mel023
Member
I have just been through this same dilemma. What it came down to for me was fit and feel of each gun in my hand. While I am a diehard S&W fan (I wouldn't be a member of the S&W Collector's Association if I wasn't) I have found that a round butt Mod. 12 just didn't fit my hand. It felt like I had to reach for the trigger where as my Cobra was just a natural fit. Of course I have a permanent injury to my trigger finger in which I can't extend it all the way straight so that may have something to do with it. Bottom line is go with which ever feels best and then shoot it until it becomes part of you.
akviper
Member
I often carry my Cobra equivalent Colt Agent in my front pants pocket. It's a lot harder to hide a K frame like the Model 12. The Model 12 is pretty much a holster gun. My vote for carry is the Cobra.
stiab
US Veteran
Here they are side by side for you to compare. They are both 6 shot revolvers but the Cobra weighs 3 oz. less than the Model 12. I don't put any stock in the notion that Colts will have timing problems. I have owned several used and vintage Colts, and have never had any issues. Also, I have friends with older Colts, and again no issues. Recently I acquired a 1968 Detective Special and a 1969 Python, and they both locked up like a safe and the timing is perfect. The factory position on +P for the 3rd gen Colt DS/Cobra/Agent family was that after 3,000 rounds you might want to have a gunsmith check the timing. But we know how long it took Osprey to shoot 1,000 rounds of +P in his M12 test, so I don't think +P in typical usage is an issue in the Colts.
Cocked & Locked
Member
Colt Timing Issues?
There's a couple of references to timing issues as being Colt specific. I've owned lots of (still have one or two) S&W's and Colts since I bought my first one 47 years ago.
The only revolvers I've had timing issues with are two S&W's. Both were N-frame .357's, a 28 and a 27...six small holes in a fat and heavy cylinder. I realize that we're talking about model 12's and Cobras, but I think the "Colt timing issue" has been overstated and expanded upon like a rumor through the years.
Of course that's just the way its been for me.
There's a couple of references to timing issues as being Colt specific. I've owned lots of (still have one or two) S&W's and Colts since I bought my first one 47 years ago.
The only revolvers I've had timing issues with are two S&W's. Both were N-frame .357's, a 28 and a 27...six small holes in a fat and heavy cylinder. I realize that we're talking about model 12's and Cobras, but I think the "Colt timing issue" has been overstated and expanded upon like a rumor through the years.
Of course that's just the way its been for me.
Malysh
Member
To harp on something I mentioned the other day in this thread....I just took a count on Gunbroker. At this time there are 13 2" bbl. K frame Airweights for sale. I think 3 of them were factory nickel, a few are M&P Airweights. This includes one from a seller who must be be on drugs because he's selling offering an M&P Airweight in the C236 serial range with aluminum cylinder(non Mod 13 Aircrewman), no grips, and the guy has a starting bid of $1895 with no reserve!
This is only one gun website in one week, and it doesn't take into consideration other online websites or local gunshops that may have these for sale. So I have to take issue with the concept that these are scarce or rare models.
Also, I have a beater carry gun 1955 Colt Agent(1st year production) that has great timing and lockup. I also have a beater 1964 Cobra and a 1993 mint one. All of them have very good timing. All 3 are very accurate
Without actually doing inventory, I think I have 9 S&W revolvers and only 3 Colts. I prefer my S&Ws, but I don't think it's fair to condemn Colts on hearsay or isolated examples.
There is room enough in this country to appreciate that we had two excellent revolver producers at one time that made great products with rich histories, no matter which brand we may prefer.
This is only one gun website in one week, and it doesn't take into consideration other online websites or local gunshops that may have these for sale. So I have to take issue with the concept that these are scarce or rare models.
Also, I have a beater carry gun 1955 Colt Agent(1st year production) that has great timing and lockup. I also have a beater 1964 Cobra and a 1993 mint one. All of them have very good timing. All 3 are very accurate
Without actually doing inventory, I think I have 9 S&W revolvers and only 3 Colts. I prefer my S&Ws, but I don't think it's fair to condemn Colts on hearsay or isolated examples.
There is room enough in this country to appreciate that we had two excellent revolver producers at one time that made great products with rich histories, no matter which brand we may prefer.
I'm not sure I'd consider them scarce or rare but one thing to take into consideration is the condition of those on GunBroker (not to mention prices, etc.). I watched M12s on GB for a couple months before deciding trying the forums would be a better bet to get one in good condition at a reasonable price. There's a reason most of those at GB have sat at repeat auction unsold for months on end.
Malysh
Member
I'm retired, so I get to loaf a lot more than most folks. I peruse Gunbroker every day in a few search categories like Airweight, Centennial, Bodyguard, 41 magnum, Agent, etc. I've been doing this for over a year as well as reading the news, which just aggravates me. It doesn't take up much time even with 6 or 7 different types of firearms I collect and different websites.
I do see guns in all categories that stay there for a long time but I can't agree that most of those Mod 12s have been there for months. It's fair to say some of them have. Conditions I saw today appear to be good to very good and prices were about $400-$450 average, if they don't rise. Only a few were very interesting, such as M&P Airweights. None listed today look like dogs, except the M&P w/alum cylinder and no grips for $1895.00.
I see our members sell Mod 12s here for $400 or in that range without boxes, etal. In fact I can't remember the last time I saw one of us sell one for less than $400. I know getting one for $350 in good condition is great, but seeing that mentioned here in a thread ocassionally is the exception, not the rule. Ask the guys who scored one at that price. They only validate that finding one under $400 is a score. I have to agree with you that buying one here is a good idea. We have a GREAT bunch of folks here!
I did notice a 4" Mod 12 that has been for sale for about a year was not listed when I looked a few hours ago. Maybe he sold it or maybe I just timed my search before he relisted it
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