For a daily concealed carry gun, would you prefer a 2" M12, or a Colt Cobra, and why?

Thanks

They are really two different animals. The Colt being more comparable to a J frame than a K frame. I don't have a M12, but I do have a couple of 2" Ks, 10 and 64. I do like the extra heft of the K when shooting, but pay for it in weight in carrying. The Colt D frames are much easier to conceal (IMHO) that the larger K frames. On the plus side the K can shoot unlimited amounts of +P while with the Colt small frames one had better limit the +P to serious social events and train with a similar weight non +P round.
Of course the unlimited +P may not apply to the M12 lightweight frame, in which case you just have a larger frame 6 shot .38 Special than the Colt.
My "retirement gun" just completed by C&S is a Colt 2.5" Diamondback .38 Special. Has the adjustable sights for various loads, a slightly stronger frame than the other D frames, and the best ergonomics for my hand in a small frame revolver.
I would think (I am NOT an expert) that since M12s are a little on the scarce side, if I had one, I would not shoot it but retain it as a collector item.
One thing I am sure of is that the alloy frame Ks are hard to find grips for, the frame is slimmer then the standard K frame, and other than custom made grips are going to be hard to find. If it has pristine factory splinters I would absolutely not carry it but preserve it.

Good question. I've been considering those two options for a while now. I don't have much to add. It maybe looks like the M12 might be a bit less in price that the Cobra (or the Agent whick I think is a 6-shot lightweight as well)

I'm holding out for either is the price is right.

Here is what you need to know
Smith>Colt

NOT to say I don't like Colts, but everything else being equal, I always go Smith and Wesson...I guess if that wasn't true I would be posting on the Colt revolver forums...

I've had Colts in the past, in fact a Colt DS was my first off duty/BUG. Could never get used to the DA trigger pull; it "stacks" at the end. Switched to Smith's for my revolver needs and never looked back. there is not much difference in diameter of cylinder and thickness is what makes the bulk. Personally, I like K frames and have a bunch of 2, 2.5 and 3 inchers. Wouldn't want to live without them. Bottom line, either one will do just fine but be careful of +P loads in either.

Yeah, I'd already come to that conclusion about the +Ps.. Steel K-frames, sure, but not the alloys...

Thanks...

Roscoe

I've got both steel and alloy J frame's and a Model 12 and also have Colt detective special's and a Colt Cobra . the Colt's are nice but I do Love my Smith's.I have a simple solution to the +P ammo I do'nt use it .I use Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWCHP low flash standard load's in my carry gun's.

Try both and see which fits your hand better. The mod 12 is kinda scarce and the Colts are more easily found. I carry a Colt Cobra or a DS because they fit better.

Charlie

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SWCA # 2294

I dunno about Mod 12 2 inchers being scarce. Maybe I've got my head in the sand but I don't think I ever see a week where ones are not for sale either on Gunbroke or other websites.

There seem to be a lot of them around.

The Colt is more concealable, but has cylinder-timing issues, as do all older Colt designs.

T-Star

I have a nice 1964 in the box Cobra.
And when I was in the Navy I had a S&W Mod. 12 .
The Cobra to me feel's cheap .
And as I recall the S&W did not .

The Model 12 has the size of a K frame, but the weight of a much smaller gun. I think it's a great .38. I have no experience with the Colt Cobra.

-S

I have just been through this same dilemma. What it came down to for me was fit and feel of each gun in my hand. While I am a diehard S&W fan (I wouldn't be a member of the S&W Collector's Association if I wasn't) I have found that a round butt Mod. 12 just didn't fit my hand. It felt like I had to reach for the trigger where as my Cobra was just a natural fit. Of course I have a permanent injury to my trigger finger in which I can't extend it all the way straight so that may have something to do with it. Bottom line is go with which ever feels best and then shoot it until it becomes part of you.

I often carry my Cobra equivalent Colt Agent in my front pants pocket. It's a lot harder to hide a K frame like the Model 12. The Model 12 is pretty much a holster gun. My vote for carry is the Cobra.

I would choose the 12 as I really prefer the Smiths for double action shooting and deal with the size.

Here they are side by side for you to compare. They are both 6 shot revolvers but the Cobra weighs 3 oz. less than the Model 12. I don't put any stock in the notion that Colts will have timing problems. I have owned several used and vintage Colts, and have never had any issues. Also, I have friends with older Colts, and again no issues. Recently I acquired a 1968 Detective Special and a 1969 Python, and they both locked up like a safe and the timing is perfect. The factory position on +P for the 3rd gen Colt DS/Cobra/Agent family was that after 3,000 rounds you might want to have a gunsmith check the timing. But we know how long it took Osprey to shoot 1,000 rounds of +P in his M12 test, so I don't think +P in typical usage is an issue in the Colts.

There's a couple of references to timing issues as being Colt specific. I've owned lots of (still have one or two) S&W's and Colts since I bought my first one 47 years ago.

The only revolvers I've had timing issues with are two S&W's. Both were N-frame .357's, a 28 and a 27...six small holes in a fat and heavy cylinder. I realize that we're talking about model 12's and Cobras, but I think the "Colt timing issue" has been overstated and expanded upon like a rumor through the years.

Of course that's just the way its been for me.

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C & L

To harp on something I mentioned the other day in this thread....I just took a count on Gunbroker. At this time there are 13 2" bbl. K frame Airweights for sale. I think 3 of them were factory nickel, a few are M&P Airweights. This includes one from a seller who must be be on drugs because he's selling offering an M&P Airweight in the C236 serial range with aluminum cylinder(non Mod 13 Aircrewman), no grips, and the guy has a starting bid of $1895 with no reserve!
This is only one gun website in one week, and it doesn't take into consideration other online websites or local gunshops that may have these for sale. So I have to take issue with the concept that these are scarce or rare models.

Also, I have a beater carry gun 1955 Colt Agent(1st year production) that has great timing and lockup. I also have a beater 1964 Cobra and a 1993 mint one. All of them have very good timing. All 3 are very accurate
Without actually doing inventory, I think I have 9 S&W revolvers and only 3 Colts. I prefer my S&Ws, but I don't think it's fair to condemn Colts on hearsay or isolated examples.
There is room enough in this country to appreciate that we had two excellent revolver producers at one time that made great products with rich histories, no matter which brand we may prefer.

I'm not sure I'd consider them scarce or rare but one thing to take into consideration is the condition of those on GunBroker (not to mention prices, etc.). I watched M12s on GB for a couple months before deciding trying the forums would be a better bet to get one in good condition at a reasonable price. There's a reason most of those at GB have sat at repeat auction unsold for months on end.

I'm retired, so I get to loaf a lot more than most folks. I peruse Gunbroker every day in a few search categories like Airweight, Centennial, Bodyguard, 41 magnum, Agent, etc. I've been doing this for over a year as well as reading the news, which just aggravates me. It doesn't take up much time even with 6 or 7 different types of firearms I collect and different websites.
I do see guns in all categories that stay there for a long time but I can't agree that most of those Mod 12s have been there for months. It's fair to say some of them have. Conditions I saw today appear to be good to very good and prices were about $400-$450 average, if they don't rise. Only a few were very interesting, such as M&P Airweights. None listed today look like dogs, except the M&P w/alum cylinder and no grips for $1895.00.

I see our members sell Mod 12s here for $400 or in that range without boxes, etal. In fact I can't remember the last time I saw one of us sell one for less than $400. I know getting one for $350 in good condition is great, but seeing that mentioned here in a thread ocassionally is the exception, not the rule. Ask the guys who scored one at that price. They only validate that finding one under $400 is a score. I have to agree with you that buying one here is a good idea. We have a GREAT bunch of folks here!

I did notice a 4" Mod 12 that has been for sale for about a year was not listed when I looked a few hours ago. Maybe he sold it or maybe I just timed my search before he relisted it

Texas Star is right, Colts go out of time pretty quickly. If you carry more than shoot maybe, but for the long haul I would go with the Smith. Having said that, I carried an alloy Agent for a lot of miles and it is an easy carry. Just a little bigger than my airweight Smith, but the sights are much better.

The Cobra. Lord forgive me for I have sinned. But that is my preference.

WILDPIG

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I ain't from around here.

I consider them approximately equivalent, and believe that the three main differences are DA trigger pull, fit to your hand, and accuracy of the individual sample that you have in your hand.

The DA trigger pull of the Colt definitely stacks. Whether this is good or bad is a personal judgment that may depend on your hand size and the use to which you put the gun. All I can say is that you will not be surprised when you shoot someone or something with DA on a Colt. It could conceivably happen with an S&W. For best accuracy, one is about as good as the other SA, if you leave that capability on the gun.

Fit of gun to hand varies with hand size. For my hand, the older Colt Cobra, unshrouded, comes with stock grips that combine with a Tyler to be slightly better than an RB 12 with Tyler, which is somewhat better than an SB 12 with a Tyler. YMMV.

I own three Colt 2" D frame revolvers (old DS, old Agent, old Cobra), and none of them is particularly accurate. Both of my 12s are better, and my 2" 15 is significantly better yet. However, I believe that it could have turned out almost the opposite. I don't own enough 2" medium-frame revolvers, however, to support my belief.

While Colts can have timing issues, it seems many posters in this thread would not agree with your statement. I assume eveyone bases their comments on their actual personal experience, and apparently you have owned some Colts with problems. I have owned many over the years, but never any problems. As others have said, I do prefer the S&W, but also appreciate the Colts, which for me have been completely trouble free.

S&W goes click, click, click.
Colt goes clack, clack, clack.

I don't own any more Colts.

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Term limits!

You guys are making me feel bad. I just bought a NIB condition M12 - 4" and now it sounds like I shouldn't use it. I love the K-frames in 3" - 4". This is my first M12, the weight and NO key safety, pushed me to trade a M60 - .357 - 2.125" (NIB) for it. I lost money on the M60, but it was too heavy for pocket carry. If it is a belt gun, it can be a medium frame gun, instead of a 5 shot. A M642 continues to be the pocket gun.

[QUOTE=OLDFED...S&W goes click, click, click.
Colt goes clack, clack, clack. [/QUOTE]


Oh man...I can't believe I didn't pick up on that before. Also, the cylinder of my Cobra closes with a tinny "schlack" sound whereas all my Smiths close up like a Moeller. My little Cobra does shoot good though.

Both are great guns, but I would go with the Cobra. Lighter to carry and a little smaller overall.
I drop my Cobra in my front pocket and off I go, wouldn't do that with the K-frame. I do carry a J-frame in the front pocket from time to time though.

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10mm, send the very best.

My last snubbie that I owned before I bought my Model 10 2-inch was a Colt Agent, if I recall they are somewhat similar to the Cobra. I liked that gun but the Smith's always suited me. I carry my 2-inch Model 10 everyday and don't have any issues. What I found was that when I started carrying pocket guns was to first make sure I had comfortable enough clothing. Even my shorts that I wear in the summertime allow me to carry the 10 comfortably in my right pocket with no issues.
If it were me, I would go with the Smith, just because that's what I am used to, but in a Model 12 I would stay away from +P's.

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Vaya con Dios

I actually have both, a 2” SB nickeled M12 and two old Colt Cobras, one with hammer shroud. I vote for the Cobra with shroud. I carried this one a lot and road many miles with it in a small pouch on the handlebars of my bicycle (back when I was in college, we won’t discuss how long that has been). The Cobra has developed issues however and I no longer trust it for carry. Yes, Colts will get out of time, but then I have had Smiths with issues too. These days I have a S&W M38 for walking the dog in the neighborhood and a no-lock +P rated 642 in the truck console to drop in my pocket when I am away from the house and feel the need to carry. But just to hedge my bets, I did recently pick up one of the newer parkerized Colt Agents. It came with some nice little bitty grips that just cover the bottom of the grip frame (these newer Colts had a shorter grip frame than the older ones). I fitted it with the appropriate Tyler T-Grip and when I wrap my fist around it with my pinkie curled underneath it feels just right in my hand. Comfortable and comforting with 6 shots on tap and not that much bigger than my M38 or 642. Or I could carry my 3” SP101, Speed Six, or snubbie 19-6 all in .357 or even my 9mm Speed Six but they are all even heavier and MUCH farther off topic.