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S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 3-Screw PINNED Barrel SWING-OUT Cylinder Hand Ejectors WITH Model Numbers


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  #1  
Old 05-23-2010, 10:39 PM
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Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"?  
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Default Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"?

Did S&W ever make a model that was identical to the Model 19 except chambered in 38 Special?

Edit: I should have posted this in the 61 to 80 forum.

Last edited by Gary7; 05-23-2010 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:16 PM
gerald mcdonald gerald mcdonald is offline
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I saw a new one about 12 or so years ago. Shop guy told me it was part of an over run for some police department. Cylinder was a standard model 15 size stuck in the 19 frame window.

Be interested to hear if he was correct.

Last edited by gerald mcdonald; 05-23-2010 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:16 AM
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And S&W did make the Model 15, which is more or less identical to the 19. The Model 15 had a more tapered barrel, an un-shrouded ejector rod and a slightly shorter cylinder, but even side by side, you have to look twice. I don't know if that answers your question

Andy
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyL8 View Post
And S&W did make the Model 15, which is more or less identical to the 19. The Model 15 had a more tapered barrel, an un-shrouded ejector rod and a slightly shorter cylinder, but even side by side, you have to look twice. I don't know if that answers your question

Andy
Not really. I'm wondering if they made a revolver that was identical to the Model 19 (bull barrel with rib, ejector rod shroud, etc.) but chambered in 38 Special.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:29 AM
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SCSW mentions the following;

Model 19-3, 2" Barrel, RB in .38spl without barrel shroud.

Model 19-8, chambered in.38spl, 2.5" or 4" barrel, SB, product code 148926. special order 0055 or 0056...2000

It would be kinda neat if a member had one of these and could post a pic.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:10 AM
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They made .38 Special Model 13s, which is essentially a Model 10. I believe those were made for some over seas PD that used very hot .38 ammo. I can imagine they made .38 Special Model 19s for the same reason.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTS Cop View Post
They made .38 Special Model 13s, which is essentially a Model 10. I believe those were made for some over seas PD that used very hot .38 ammo. I can imagine they made .38 Special Model 19s for the same reason.
Yes, the Thailand Police ordered the 13-4, quantities not mentioned, per the SCSW. Regarding the original question, I recall seeing a .38 Special model 19 for sale sometime in the last year or two, but can't recall the price or even if it sold. Seems the term "Magnum" just scares some people...
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:05 AM
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....and I seem to remember some 38spl 586s out there....
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:47 AM
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Default Model 19

I bought a 4 in. blued gun last year off gb, inside the yoke it said mod.19-7 on the barrel it said .38 special. the cyl was a .357. I sold it to one of my friends that just had to have it.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:45 AM
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The one I saw was brand new from the factory around 97 or 98, full size 4" model 19 with the shorter 38 spec cylinder mounted to a 19 frame. It had the barrel shroud and was in every way a regular model 19 with a 38 spec cylinder.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald mcdonald View Post
The one I saw was brand new from the factory around 97 or 98, full size 4" model 19 with the shorter 38 spec cylinder mounted to a 19 frame. It had the barrel shroud and was in every way a regular model 19 with a 38 spec cylinder.
Was it a Model 19 chambered in 38, or did it have a different model number?
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:08 AM
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10 responses and only Big Lou got it right. Obviously later posters didn't read his response.

From SCSW3, p187:

Model 19-3, 2"Barrel: Round butt in .38 Special caliber without barrel shroud.

Model 19-8,Chambered in .38 Special: 2-1/2" or 4" barrel, square butt, product code 148926; special order 0055 or 0056. 2000.

Not only .38 Special, but 9mm too! From SCSW 1st Edition, p116:

Model 19 9mm: Model 19 variations exist chambered in 9mm-a forerunner of the Model 547 for European export.

References are wonderful.

So the answer is YES. Not a 15, or 13, but a Model 19 in .38 Special, just like was asked. At least 2 acknowledged having seen one.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alk8944 View Post
10 responses and only Big Lou got it right. Obviously later posters didn't read his response.
.
I read it, I was just trying to clarify that what I saw had a shorter 38 spec cylinder in a 19.

Gary, it was labeled a 19.
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:19 PM
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Here is a 19-8 that is marked "38 Special" but will chamber a 357 mag. I understand that many of the 19's will chamber the 357. I have not yet heard a definitive explaination for these guns but it is speculated that these guns were left over from an overseas order and rechambered by the factory for the American market.



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Old 05-24-2010, 10:14 PM
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Then, of course, there is the Model 68....
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:47 AM
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The one I saw was a short cylinder, there were obviously some made with the 357 cylinder and barrels marked 38 spec. makes me wonder if S&W didnt clean out the parts bin assembling revovlers to move the inventory out.
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:40 AM
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Lets not forget the model 586 built for the South American PD market.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:38 AM
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Default Mod 19s

Here's a pair of the 38 SPL marked guns that are overrun guns for Brazil.



Both of these guns will chamber a 357 round but are marked 38Spl.

Here are the 586s for Brazil that ARE 38Spl only!



jcelect
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Old 05-27-2010, 02:15 PM
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Smith never made a model “66” in 38 spl. (At least that they ever told anyone about!). They did make a model, the number of which escapes me, for the California Highway Patrol which was the same as the 66 but was chambered in 38. The gun was stainless and had a 6” barrel with ejector shroud. It was marked “CHP” on the left side of the frame under the cylinder. CHP sold the guns at some point but before they did they over stamped the “CHP” marking so that it read “OHB”. The gun had a red insert front sight and a white outline rear and was fitted with target stocks. I think that they marked the yoke model 78 or 74 or something like that. I will have to do some research when I am near my library.
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Old 05-28-2010, 03:28 PM
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I have one of those CHP revolvers. It is not overstamped. It is indeed a 6" SS model 68. The box it came in is marked "special". It has the red ramp but no white outline rear. It has hogue grips but the box says SB under "stock". Is that the designation for target grips or is "stock" on the box for something else?
The CHP did tests that indicated to them (so they said) that the +P+ .38 was just as good as the .357 so they went with the .38. I think it was because there were several women and smaller stature men coming onto the force at that time and it was easier for them to control. If you did not qualify, you did not graduate from the academy. There was a lot of time and money invested to get them trained thus far and they wanted to have the most people qualify. It was also thought that all members carrying .38 would simplify ammo purchase and using others ammo in an emergency. The CHP has a lot of officers and the amount of ammo they use every month is a big investment.
Of course now it is all changed, to .40 automatics.
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:48 PM
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I just noticed xray’s post above. The .38 CHP gun is indeed the model 68. These guns were made in the late 70’s and I think they came about because the CHP didn’t want to look like a bunch of cowboys by arming up with an evil Magnum. They also wouldn’t allow the use of expanding bullets, issuing round nose and then semi wad cutters. In case a Chippy had to shoot someone, they wanted to be sure that they didn’t hurt them too badly. It took a couple of shootings where things went bad for the good guy before things started to change. And they didn’t change much. It’s still a defendant friendly state when it comes to police work. A lot like it is here in the North East.

As a side note: About a year ago one of the over stamps had made its way East and into my hands at the local gun shop. The price was right but I didn’t pull the trigger fast enough (pun intended) and it now lives with someone else.
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:51 AM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary7 View Post
Did S&W ever make a model that was identical to the Model 19 except chambered in 38 Special?

Edit: I should have posted this in the 61 to 80 forum.
Yes, they did.

And they are again, except this time it is called a Classic Model 15!
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
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Yes, they did.

And they are again, except this time it is called a Classic Model 15!
The Model 15 doesn't have the barrel underlug.
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:23 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Quote:
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The Model 15 doesn't have the barrel underlug.
It does this time. Check out the new Classic Model 15.
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
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It does this time. Check out the new Classic Model 15.
I just checked the S&W web site and I don't see a Model 15 listed in the Classic line.
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:41 AM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary7 View Post
I just checked the S&W web site and I don't see a Model 15 listed in the Classic line.
Correct. It is not yet on the S&W web site, but one other person saw the same thing:

From a post on this Forum:

New Model 15 In Catalog

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Picked up the Smith catalog from a gunshop this weekend. IN the classic's section was a new model 15. But. It has an underlug. Looks like a 19. Check it out.

New Model 15 In Catalog

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore..._Catalog_3.pdf

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Old 10-04-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
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Here is a 19-8 that is marked "38 Special" but will chamber a 357 mag. I understand that many of the 19's will chamber the 357. I have not yet heard a definitive explaination for these guns but it is speculated that these guns were left over from an overseas order and rechambered by the factory for the American market.



May be it was a prior owner who re-chamber it to .357. If the S&W factory was done it they would change the .38 Special marks too.

Just remember that many .38/44 Outdoorsman and Heavy Duty were converted to .357 Magnum for their owners.

I would´t do it this whit a model 19 .38 Special only because I would prefer to have a special edition model 19 .38 than te more common .357.

Last edited by Hannibal Barca; 10-04-2012 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
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May be it was a prior owner who re-chamber it to .357. If the S&W factory was done it they would change the .38 Special marks too.

Just remember that many .38/44 Outdoorsman and Heavy Duty were converted to .357 Magnum for their owners.

I would´t do it this whit a model 19 .38 Special only because I would prefer to have a special edition model 19 .38 than te more common .357.
Hannibal-

Can you even own a .357 in Mexico? Brazil limits civilians to a .38, unless they buy an expensive collectors' license.

Come to think of it, I believe one of our other members there owns an old .357 Magnum that was carried by a famous Marine officer and FBI agent. He's actually Canadian, but has lived in Mexico for years.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:08 PM
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Jim I think that was CalMex (?) who has the R.M. If I remember his comments correctly the gun is illegal in Mexico do the .357 Magnum caliber, and he was trying to find a way to get out of the country or find an old 38/44 barrel to swap out with the .357 Magnum barrel.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:49 AM
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I recently saw a "S&W model 66 38 special" listed for sale on a guns-for-sale website that kinda raised my eyebrow. Thought that the seller probably didn't know what he was taking about, but after reading this thread maybe it was the real deal.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Barca View Post
May be it was a prior owner who re-chamber it to .357. If the S&W factory was done it they would change the .38 Special marks too.

Just remember that many .38/44 Outdoorsman and Heavy Duty were converted to .357 Magnum for their owners.

I would´t do it this whit a model 19 .38 Special only because I would prefer to have a special edition model 19 .38 than te more common .357.
Hannibal, I believe this gun left the factory as a .357 Mag rather than being converted later, I should send for a letter to confirm this. As near as I have have been able determine the gun was originally built for a Brazil order but was either left over or not shipped and the cylinder reamed to allow 357 Mag to be used as it would make it more marketable in the US. I suspect the gun was already built and it was easier to leave the roll markings intact rather than to change the barrel to one with proper markings. I have been told that these guns shipped to RSR Distributors in 2000 with product code 148926.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
Hannibal-

Can you even own a .357 in Mexico? Brazil limits civilians to a .38, unless they buy an expensive collectors' license.

Come to think of it, I believe one of our other members there owns an old .357 Magnum that was carried by a famous Marine officer and FBI agent. He's actually Canadian, but has lived in Mexico for years.
You are right, .357 Magnum are ban to civilian in Mexico, except for two cases. One that you mentioned that you were a collector with a license or if you are member of a “Charro” (Mexican Cowboy) association.
But I was thinking if I was the prior American owner wouldn´t change the chamber to .357 Magnum (I was talking figurative). In the case that the revolver were re-chamber to .357 like some .38/44s Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman.
And yes like Old Bear said, it was Calmex who have that registered magnum you said. I don´t know Calmex in person, but he is a good friend of mine in the Mexican gun forums.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:22 PM
Hannibal Barca Hannibal Barca is offline
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Quote:
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Hannibal, I believe this gun left the factory as a .357 Mag rather than being converted later, I should send for a letter to confirm this. As near as I have have been able determine the gun was originally built for a Brazil order but was either left over or not shipped and the cylinder reamed to allow 357 Mag to be used as it would make it more marketable in the US. I suspect the gun was already built and it was easier to leave the roll markings intact rather than to change the barrel to one with proper markings. I have been told that these guns shipped to RSR Distributors in 2000 with product code 148926.
I would like to know what really happened to this revolver. I didn´t know until recently that some model 19s were made for the Brazilian Police in .38 Special. I always have knew that some models 586 and 686 were made for the Brazilian Police in .38 Special too, but in the 686 and 586 case they were chamber for the .38 Special only and they don´t allowed use .357 magnum in them.

Last edited by Hannibal Barca; 10-05-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alk8944 View Post
10 responses and only Big Lou got it right. Obviously later posters didn't read his response.

From SCSW3, p187:

Model 19-3, 2"Barrel: Round butt in .38 Special caliber without barrel shroud.

Model 19-8,Chambered in .38 Special: 2-1/2" or 4" barrel, square butt, product code 148926; special order 0055 or 0056. 2000.

Not only .38 Special, but 9mm too! From SCSW 1st Edition, p116:

Model 19 9mm: Model 19 variations exist chambered in 9mm-a forerunner of the Model 547 for European export.

References are wonderful.

So the answer is YES. Not a 15, or 13, but a Model 19 in .38 Special, just like was asked. At least 2 acknowledged having seen one.
This information is correct. I would merely add that the end label on SKU 148926, Special Order 0056 is also marked **SPECIAL**.
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  #35  
Old 10-06-2012, 10:50 AM
sodacan sodacan is offline
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I know the question you are asking about non .357 model 19's, but the short answer is ALL of them are chambered for .38 special.
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  #36  
Old 10-07-2012, 12:21 PM
Nframe_is_no1 Nframe_is_no1 is offline
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Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"?  
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The current classic series model 15 looks identical to the model 19 except for being .38 only because it has the heavy barrel and a shrouded ejector rod.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:17 AM
gbw gbw is offline
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fwiw, I have a 19-4 that, when I got it many years ago, would not chamber any .357 cartridge I could find. They stopped about 1/10" from seating in the recessed cylinder. Otherwise the gun is a standard 19-4, 4", marked .357 cal. I had a gunsmith with the correct reamers cut the cylinder to accept .357. I've fired it a little over the years withour problems, but it's such a pretty example I tend to leave it in the safe. Probably just an error at the factory.
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  #38  
Old 10-11-2012, 03:04 AM
Qmark Qmark is offline
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Years ago in a conversation with a former in law. Back in the good ol'days when a Gi could still buy a handgun from a military PX. He claimed he purchased a Model 19, barrel was marked 357 but it would only chamber 38's. The PX would not allow him to exchange or return it and told him to send it to Smith and Wesson. He sent it to S&W and got it back with a 357 cylinder. He claimed the only correspondence he got with the returned revolver. Was a form letter saying something about immediate cleaning with modern ammunition was not necessary after test firing. No explanation about the mix up.
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  #39  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:41 AM
FRAN357 FRAN357 is offline
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Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"?  
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chp mod 68 made in 1977-78 made6055 orginal order.
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  #40  
Old 10-28-2017, 03:10 PM
john.41 john.41 is offline
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Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"?  
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Sorry about bringing back a dead thread, but I saw one of these 19-8's at a gun show today and had to research it a bit.
4" adj. sights w/rubber grips. No box or papers, very good condition.
Did I pass up something I shouldn't have for $600?
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  #41  
Old 10-28-2017, 04:30 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
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Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john.41 View Post
Sorry about bringing back a dead thread, but I saw one of these 19-8's at a gun show today and had to research it a bit.
4" adj. sights w/rubber grips. No box or papers, very good condition.
Did I pass up something I shouldn't have for $600?
Only if you're a collector. The regular M-19 in .357 is the more versatile gun.

The only reason to own a .38 M-19 or a Model 68 is if you work for a guard company or LE agency that requires a .38. And Brazilians and Mexicans are usually limited to .38 Special.

I don't know what you mean by very good condition. Do you know and mean NRA VG? Few here seem to know those traditional NRA grading terms. They tend to speak of percentage of finish left.

For $600, I'd expect a near new gun, hopefully with box and any tools or papers. Some look at prices on Gun Broker and think they can get those elevated fees. Look and you'll probably find a M-19 in .357 without box for maybe $450-500.

One of the Bond films had Bond (Sir Roger Moore) look at a M-19 used by some black girl from CIA. He commented that it was a custom .38. At the time, I thought it was just a movie writer who didn't know what he was talking about. Later, I learned that .38 M-19's do exist.

I'm pretty sure that most M-19's shipped to Brazil chamber just .38 ammo. Maybe Ray in Rio,or another Brazilian member will comment. Mexican members have covered this pretty thoroughly in prior threads.

Last edited by Texas Star; 10-28-2017 at 04:46 PM.
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  #42  
Old 10-28-2017, 09:11 PM
john.41 john.41 is offline
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Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"? Did S&W ever make 38 Special "Model 19"?  
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Thanks, the only thing that got my interest was the fact it was in .38spl. I have plenty of other S&W revolvers, just struck me as odd. I'm not usually interested in anything that recent anyway.
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