I'm new here, but I am familiar with the ONI marked S&W Model 19's.
My neighbor was an old time ONI/NIS Special Agent in the 1960's and 70's. He was a higher up type, and when he retired he had a shadow box with his old credentials and his ONI and NIS gold badges.
He also had a Blue ONI marked S&W Model 19 4 incher. When I saw his little collection of guns, to include a Chinese AK47 from the Tet Offensive and a Silencer Equipped Swedish K subgun, which he said he brought back from the Manila ONI office, of all places.....
He said the S&W was not original ONI issue, since they were then, 1983, issuing the Ruger Speed Six in .357 mag. He had the gun made up from Smith & Wesson on an original ONI frame with a later model 19 cylinder & barrel. The front sight had a yellow insert (I guess since that is what he carried). You could tell that the gun was not original because of the gas guard on the cylinder had a gap....which was changed after the mid 1970's. The frame was in the range of the Supica/Nahas serial numbers, so it was legit. The trigger was a Ranger trigger (smooth & narrow) and the hammer was standard service type.
Frame was marked "ONI" under the cylinder cut out on the left side.
He also had a NIS Commemorative Stainless Steel Model 66 4" and a factory overun NIS & US marked Ruger GS32N Speed Six.
The thing I thought was most interesting was his Swedish K with silencer, which he allowed me to shoot in his backyard...in suburban Virginia Beach on the Lynhaven river. We took it apart to clean and I took some pictures using his NIS Crime Scene kit ruler. I have the pictures somewhere and will try and post them up.
He passed on due to Cancer in the early 1990's, and I do not know what happened to his guns or Badges. His family moved to Florida and I lost track of them due to Overseas jobs.
The last one I saw sold in the late 1990's from the collection of the late Bill Anderson of Burkburnett Texas. Bill had a great collection of Military use Smiths, to include Tommie Campbell's parts rack built Smith & Wesson Hush Puppy 9mm (one of two in Civilian hands).
What I do remember is that outside of any released by Smith & Wesson in the 1980's after ONI/NIS stopped buying revolvers.....none were ever released into Non-Governmental hands.
The FBI got some of the ONI and NIS marked ones (the NIS marked ones were from the late 1960s - post 1968). The FBI SWAT Team carried them until 1984-5 when they issued 559's and other variants. There are still some on the weapons boards at Quantico. The rest were delcared surplus and issued to GSA Guards and some Federal Housing police.
If you have one with a legit S&W history and not stolen Federal property, it should be worth over $1000, which is what Bill Anderson's gun went for. As a contrast, NIB Ruger NIS marked Speed Sixes are highly in demand by collectors since only 125 were released in 1995 and they sell from $750 to $1500 depending on condition and completness.
First model ONI guns from 1965 have red ramps and smooth triggers. Most all have the S&W marked grip adapter.
Second model has NIS and are from 1968. Some have red or yellow inserts. Smooth triggers and S&W Grip adapters. these were also issued with Seventrees marked holsters and handcuff cases, and they are collectable in and of themselves.
There was a NCIS agent named Blair Gluba who was very tight with the Van Orden's, and he is responsible for making the NIS commemorative guns C&R eligible, and he also was responsible for all of the quotes about the ONI & NIS guns since he served as an agent for both agencies.
He now works as a consultant for FN Herstal in Northern Virginia. You can google him and he can probably fill you in even more.
If you find a registered Swedish K with silencer with a weird green paint job, keep me in mind......I still have fond memories of my 5 minutes behind that gun on the river bank......and that was over 20 years ago!
Good luck on your gun! Post some pics as they are great guns.
Last edited by SpartanDCI; 06-04-2010 at 12:35 PM.
Pull up a chair, Spartan. Seems you have much to share! Thanks for the informative post.
The Karl Gustav Model 45, aka "Swedish K" is a fine old gun and served as the model for the S&W Model 76 9mm subgun. I've fired several of both.
The revolver (which I hope to be purchasing soon) was purchased by a fellow who found it a few years ago at a reputable gun shop. The shop owner stated that he'd purchased it and a few other firearms from a retired Marine officer. The revolver is as follows: 1965 S&W M-19-2 357 Magnum, Round Butt w/ original Checkered Walnut (Diamond Center) Stocks, 4" Barrel, Red Ramp Front Sight, White Outline Rear Sight, Service Hammer & Trigger, Parkerized Finish. The revolver is stamped "ONI" on the left side of the frame below the cylinder. Serial Number: K6222_ _. As far as I know that's all there is to this particular revolver; nothing else having come with it. It is in excellent condition, looking as though it were stored more than carried. It certainly must be considered collectable.
The revolver (which I hope to be purchasing soon) was purchased by a fellow who found it a few years ago at a reputable gun shop. The shop owner stated that he'd purchased it and a few other firearms from a retired Marine officer. The revolver is as follows: 1965 S&W M-19-2 357 Magnum, Round Butt w/ original Checkered Walnut (Diamond Center) Stocks, 4" Barrel, Red Ramp Front Sight, White Outline Rear Sight, Service Hammer & Trigger, Parkerized Finish. The revolver is stamped "ONI" on the left side of the frame below the cylinder. Serial Number: K6222_ _. As far as I know that's all there is to this particular revolver; nothing else having come with it. It is in excellent condition, looking as though it were stored more than carried. It certainly must be considered collectable.
Tom Sunday
Might that gun be refinished? I thought these guns were originally blued?
And does "service hammer" mean like on the Model 10, or the normal, wider (but not Target) hammer usual on M-19's?
Mornin'. The Navy parkerized the revolver after taking receipt of it from S&W. These revolvers would have been carried virtually all around the world, and at the time they were manufactured Viet Nam was on the upswing. The climate in Nam was not friendly to standard blued weapons, making them very prone to rusting. This revolver's parkerizing is consistant with this.
As to the trigger & hammer, they are the standard service issue type (like on a model 10 M&P or non-target model 19), i.e., serrated, thin trigger & checkered standard width hammer... neither are the Wide Target Style. The standard service trigger & hammer are what one would expect to see on any military or L.E. revolvers from S&W. S&W did not come out with smooth triggers until a lot later.
As to the trigger & hammer, they are the standard service issue type (like on a model 10 M&P or non-target model 19), i.e., serrated, thin trigger & checkered standard width hammer... neither are the Wide Target Style. The standard service trigger & hammer are what one would expect to see on any military or L.E. revolvers from S&W. S&W did not come out with smooth triggers until a lot later.
This almost sounds like a po-tay-to vs. po-ta-to thing.
Although I can't speak for a Model 10's hammer, there is a .265" wide service hammer (Models 13 and 65 come to mind) and a non-target Model 19 usually had a .375" wide semi-target hammer.
A guy could go nuts figuring it out! I'll try and get a photo of this wheelgun posted. That should take care of biz.
Probably dangerous to admit it on this particular forum (but you having a Globe & Anchor leads me to believe you understand), but I've been packin' a 1911 for duty & now retired carry for some time. I did carry a model 28 on & off for some time.... and thought it was the cat's meow! Fine piece. Had a 5" 27 for a time, but didn't want to beat it up... it being as pretty as it was. But this whole ONI wheelgun business has me intrigued.
I was following along with this. The description is spot on, especially with the grips.
First problem is I found out that no ONI or NIS marked S&W model 19's were ever surplused by the US Navy. Those that were recalled by NCIS were sent to the Naval Surface Weapons Support Center in Crane Indiana and Destroyed.
Those transferred to the FBI were either turned into "Red Handle" guns, transferred to the GSA (Government Services Admin - Government Landlord) for issue to their Uniformed Guards during the 1990's, or destroyed.
A friend of mine is related to a current NCIS Special Agent and he checked with a Technical Services Special Agent at the Washington, DC Navy Yard. He said that several S&W Model 19's marked ONI and NIS were returned to Crane Weapons Station for refurbishment before the SIG P228's were issued to both the Special Agents and Navy Reserve Special Agents. Some of these weapons had extensive blue wear so Crane parkerized them and refurbished them. He said that the only commend thread was that many of the reparked guns were also lightly bead blasted and all had the old style front sight ramps that were double pinned to the barrel rib and it was observable. Along with these S&W Model 19's were also a series of military issue S&W Model 36's with lanyard rings at the butt and U.S. marks.....those were parked also. He advised that some of those Model 36's were actually sold as surplus by S&W through their dealer network, but were restamped over the "U.S".
I am not saying that your Model 19 is stolen USG property, I am just saying that none issued to ONI or NIS Special Agents, U.S. Navy Officer Agents or Marine Corps CID or NIS Marine Agents were ever sold, given as retirement gifts or surplused to gun dealers. Several weapons were stolen and lost and they are listed in the NCIS off line search of stolen weapons and the Crane MLSR (Missing, lost, stolen Registry) at Crane.
If you have any more direct questions, you can PM me off line and I will be able to do a search of the registry for you to set you mind at ease.
I am not trying to start a brush fire here, just letting you know what I have been told.
If it were me, I'd buy the Model 19 and keep it hung up with Some ONI memorabilia. Hell, an authentic ONI Special Agent badge just sold on EvilBay for over a $1000 BUCKS.
Keep your powder dry.
Last edited by SpartanDCI; 06-20-2010 at 01:00 AM.
I'm a little late to this thread, but I thought I'd add my meager bit of knowledge.
There was at least one ONI marked Model 19 still in service with the FBI as late as 1996, because I shot one from the gun vault in New Orleans in preparation for going to firearms instructor school at Quantico.
I remember it as you guys have described - a four inch round butt Model 19. It had an extremely smooth DA trigger - one of the best I've ever used.
I left NO in 1998 and haven't been back. I'm sure that nice gun has been sent to the chipper by now.
O.N.I. Holster(Hank Sloan Type) From the 1965 Mod.19 run
Hi guys,I have this old holster and was doing some googling/research on it. It looks like the standard Bucheimer Hank Sloan type but is not maker marked. The only markings are "Pat.Pend."and "O.N.I. 9." I found an official Office Of Naval Intelligence newsletter dated Sept.30,1965 which describes the holster issued with the new 357 revolver,it exactly describes a Hank Sloan type holster.It fits a S&W model 64 K frame perfectly.I was thinking some of the LEO and holster historians here might be interested in seeing this one.
Hi guys,I have this old holster and was doing some googling/research on it. It looks like the standard Bucheimer Hank Sloan type but is not maker marked. The only markings are "Pat.Pend."and "O.N.I. 9." I found an official Office Of Naval Intelligence newsletter dated Sept.30,1965 which describes the holster issued with the new 357 revolver,it exactly describes a Hank Sloan type holster.It fits a S&W model 64 K frame perfectly.I was thinking some of the LEO and holster historians here might be interested in seeing this one.
There is no doubt in my mind that your holster is a Hank Sloan model made by Bucheimer. The stitching pattern, hardware and configuration are identical. Thanks for posting it, that is a very interesting holster.
Regards,
turnerriver
Hope Tom was able to locate an O.N.I. I carried one on the job for several years. None to happy to turn it in. It was the original FBI SWAT sidearm eventually replaced by the 459 and then the 226. The O.N.I. 19 was an outstanding weapon day in and day out. I am sure it created an impression on the Firearms Training Unit and lead to the adoption of the 3” model 13 which was probably the best answer for general Agent issue.
Not sure how I missed this fascinating thread the first time around. Does anyone have insight on how GSA disposed of the guns that were transferred to them?
Model 19 "ONI" (Office of Naval Intelligence)
Linear Mode
