The factory specs for STs are 1225 fps from a 4" which is what the rounds out of that same box of ammo got several years ago. They clocked 1300 even out of a 6" 57....no clue why that round was down in the 1100s. It did expand however....

From what I read the 38-40 (.401" bullet of 180 grains) was one of the more popular gun fighting rounds of the Old West. The reason stated is it gave the lowest recoil of a round that was still a reliable manstopper. And remember this was generally with an all lead non-expanding bullets going in the 900 fps range.

The original no longer available .41 Magnum "police" round was a soft lead SWC at 950 fps from a 4" barrel. It had a good track record but leaded barrels very very badly. It also shot to POA in the 58. I still have a few boxes of this ammo and hope to run them into some water this spring...

Bob

...and yes the .41 Winchester ST and the CorBon 170s are only mid-range loadings. 1225 for the ST and 1275 for the CorBon. CorBon uses the Sierra 170 JHC that is more of a hunting bullet. Buffalo Bore runs that same bullet at 1600 fps...it is a deer smoker...

Wow, quite an educational string of posts SuperMan. Many thanks.

I guess I'll load the M58 with the Remington 210's when I go camping, and for normal everyday carry, I'll go with the others that you mentioned.

The Remington 210's were the very first shots I took with my M58, about 3 weeks ago. Very fun to shoot, makes a thunderous boom at the indoor range that causes everyone to stop what they are doing. Much louder than even my snub nosed .357 mag with full house loads.

I posted a picture of my old 58 that I carried on duty for 13 years back in #137.
I carried reloads reccomended by Elmer Keith. The 210 grain bullet over a healthy dose of 2400 was a salty round to say the least.

I put one thru the spare tire, the tubular tire carrier, the tail gate, rear of the front seat and took out the dashboard radio of a 1970 Ford Bronco with one. Feller tried to run me down and kinda torqued me off a bit.

I was in 3 serious social encounters, and in each case, only one round was all that was needed to bring them to a quick end.

Heck, even the guy driving the Bronco went to the PD and reported that "messicans" was shooting at him. So I guess that was a one shot stop too. Another HP was there and arrested him. He got out of jail before I got out of the ER.

Interesting stories, Iggy. It sounds like the model 58 and 41 mag cartridge did very well. This certainly offers a lot of extra confidence in the hardware.

Thank you for sharing.

If a .41 won't do it, you need a crew served weapon.

Ditto! Break out the 60mm mortar (my favorite crew-served weapon)!

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

a BIG +1 on what Iggy just said. I trust mine 100%.
Chip King

Iggy you GOTTA write down the history of that 58!!!!...now that the statute of limitations has passed.... :-)

Bob

1776...if you look at the above pics you can see the line of jugs and then a bullet proof vest insert. All the HPs went though the milk carton and 2-3 jugs... The 210 Remington SP ran through the carton, 4 jugs and buried itself in the vest insert....



....then CRACKED THE JUG THAT WAS SUPPORTING THE VEST so it had to be replaced.

I always have a few boxes of that stuff around.


Bob

hi guys , curosity over what has been written on the model 58, what i see in pictures , were there any options on the model 58 production , example : grips ?
target hammer ?
target trigger ?
, front sight plastic inserts ??

robbt

Not many options on the 58. It was a plain ol cop gun. Early ones came with plain clothes variation of the Magna grips.

I found the issue magna grips to be painful with hot loads, so I destroyed them to get the hardware to make a set of modifed target grips. The PC magnas would probably bring more money today than my gun.

Many owners including me changed over to target hammers and triggers much to the disgust of some of the "experts" of the day..

I painted the front sight red back in 1966 and it's still red today.


I have put 1000s of rounds thru this ol beater and it's still tight and smooth as when it was new.
I carried the gun in a black basket weave Safariland Jacket slot holster and had two Dade Speed loaders.

58s could be ordered with Target Hammer and Target Trigger as well as Target Stocks. I have seen two guns that had the above in the original box with the proper markings on the label. Have seen quite a few 58s with a red ramp but no documentation as to whether it was original, sent back to the factory for modification or done outside the factory.

Iggy...those Dade loaders were fast, but if you dropped them one or more rounds of ammo usually dislodged...

Bob

Iggy...those Dade loaders were fast, but if you dropped them one or more rounds of ammo usually dislodged...

Yup, but they were all I could get at the time.

hi Superman , i realize this is a sillly question , were these odd guns early or late production ??


" 58s could be ordered with Target Hammer and Target Trigger as well as Target Stocks. I have seen two guns that had the above in the original box with the proper markings on the label. Have seen quite a few 58s with a red ramp but no documentation as to whether it was original, sent back to the factory for modification or done outside the factory.

Iggy...those Dade loaders were fast, but if you dropped them one or more rounds of ammo usually dislodged...

Bob '
'

Superman,
Those Remington 210s are impressive. Your posts are very educational.

I'm glad I have several boxes of those. I'll look into getting some more, just to have all that fire power.

I'm guessing that these Remington 210's would be hard on the model 58. Would this N-Frame be good for a steady diet of these, or would 'use sparingly' be the recommendation? I know folks handload the 41 mag to more powerful levels; I'm just trying to get an idea/feel for how I should care for my model 58.

One of my favorite Smiths is this Model 58. I moved up to the Model 58 for its power after being a bit disappointed in the stopping power of my 357. While holster worn, its still pretty tight and shoots to point of aim with the "Police Load." My 210 grain cast SWC bullets over Unique powder at 900 fps mimic the factory police load and are pretty easy on the weapon yet have a surprisingly effective impact down range.

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Keep your powder dry.

SuperMan if you think the Dade speedloaders were bad you should try being issued the 2 flap dump pouches or the AW **** pouches as they were often called because no matter where you wore them they would snag on something getting out of a vehicle and DUMP your ammo about once a day .
Chip King

hi guys , did super vel ever load .41 magnum ammo

Especially when you were the rookie and in lineup one of the guys would unsnap your pouch....

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Take your time..quickly.

Can we get an Amen here??

Rob,

I have found no reference to the 41 Magnum being made by Super Vel (H&H Cartridge).

Here is a copy of the 12/1977 catalog page and an advertisement for a 1978 clearance sale.

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Take your time..quickly.

It's nice to know that the abuse meted out by fellow officers has been going on for generations, although I never doubted it.

I was more concerned with poking a hole into or through a car in my line of work, and I sure didn't need any Supervel flying ashtrays for that.

My Elmer Keith loads did just fine.

Iggy, at least you didn't have to do 2 days worth of paperwork explaining why your partner blew the light bar off your patrol unit with a load of 00 buck...from inside the car...

Dang car only had 700 miles on it. I'd never seen the Sheriff that angry in my entire career.

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Take your time..quickly.

oldafsp,
We went on a drug raid and a Deputy let a tommy gun get away from him and put 5 rounds through the floor in my patrol car. The next Sunday afternoon, the Captain and I pulled the floormats and filled the holes with hot asphalt. Problem solved.

Had a feller shoot out one of my overheads with a 30-30 right beside my head as I got out of the car when I went out to pick up his driver's license. That took a little more paperwork.

BTW the .41 mag put enough slivers in his face through the barn wall to keep him occupied while I got out of sight.

Hi Guys , picture below is my Nickel late model 58 with a period Safety Speed Break front break and ammo loops , next warm day I will strip the varnish from a two pair of Vintage Herrett Jordan grips for both my model 58's .

...I would love to find one of those holsters....

I remember a Dallas Investigator who was racking the rounds out of an Ithaca pump shotgun pointing it into the trunk of his car. Had his finger on the trigger and those guns were kinda like semi-auto pumps because if you held the trigger down the hammer would go down when the gun locked up...blew a hole right through the trunk and gas tank...

Bob

Back in the mid 70s I had been hunting with a .41 Ruger for several years and decided that I needed a Smith for duty, so I hunted until I found a Mod. 57 and was set to buy it until I picked it up and just didn't like the feel, it was too light in the barrel for my taste so I passed it up. Shortly there after I was in another shop and saw a Mod.58 in the used case, I picked it up and immediately fell in love with it the balance was perfect for me and it pointed just right, it has been carried and beat around by me for close to forty years now and I would still stake my life on it.

Well guys I guess I'm a new member. I just got another 58 from a friend. I just ran into it and I guess it was Fate that led me to my new 58! I reload for Ruger SA's in 41 mag so I needed another gun to shoot 41's out of. I have owned and do have a 57, but S&W has they're fixed sight gun figured out. Cast Load> 8.2 of Unique 225 LSWC. Jacketed XTP's> 7.4of W231 210 gr XTP. My 58 goes everywhere I do. It rides in a holster riveted to the dash of my old farm truck. It is my right hand.

hi guys , .41 magmum brass were they all brass of were there nickeled cartridges also ??
I have only brass winchester and remington .

Hello.

I wanted to do a brief range report on some new 41 magnum factory ammo I purchased. This stuff is called Copper Only Projectiles (COP). These are 180 grain hollow points.

Midway had some; box of 25 for 19 dollars. When I saw that price I picked up several boxes just to see what it's about.

Now I don't have any chronograph, but I took this stuff to the range and shot three different loads for comparison.

I had some Remington 210 JSP, and those are extremely loud, a wall of muzzle fire, and everyone at the range stopped. I guy asked me if it was a 44, and the range officers all watched us from the windows.

Next I tried the Speer 210 grain Deep Curl. They were very accurate, and about 10 percent less muzzle flash, recoil, and noise as the Remingtons. Still loud and serious business.

The COP rounds were, to my surprise, VERY MILD. Now, they are marketed as self defense rounds. I'm not sure I'd have these as my first or even second or third choice. The recoil was LESS than a 38 spl. load from my Ruger SP101. No huge muzzle flash, no huge boom. Maybe these would be the sort of recoil expected from a '41 special' type load.

The rounds seemed accurate enough, and they certainly didn't turn heads at the range. I would say that these are probably good range loads for plinking in the 41 magnum. I could shoot these all day if I wanted to, and I'm sure my Model 58 will thank me for running these instead of the steady diet of Remingtons. My wallet will also thank me.

I don't know if these bullets expanded at all. The velocity seemed much reduced on these loads, and the bullets are solid copper. But as far as recoil, noise, and muzzle flash, it's all minimal from these very easy loads. In my eyes, these will be ideal plinking loads for anyone with a 41 magnum who wants a break from the hard hitting hunting loads.

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Hmmm...I'll have to look into this ammo!

I just paid about a buck and a half too much for this one.
Looks clean and I have the right stocks.
Heck of a reason to buy a gun.
Smith & Wesson Mod. 58 No-Dash .41mag 4" Blue : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

That looks like a very nice specimen....Are you going to pick it up FTF? I bet it looks better in person that it photographs.

You are going to shoot it right? or is this one a safe queen?

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On the Oak Savannah

I looked at that one several times. You bought a sharp one.

....I wonder how a 3" round butt 58 would shoot...something like a Model 10 or 65 3" on steroids....in stainless it would really be a great carry gun.

I bought a customized RB 3in M58 that had been Armaloyed back a long time ago. Don't know who did the work, but it was done right, and that little blaster did shoot well with reloads. It did not do as well with factory ammo because about all we could get back then was either of the Remington loads. Carried it as a backup to my M57 for stakeout use, but soon after they started requiring us to use only factory rounds. so...alas...I traded it for a new Python, which wasn't a bad deal back then. Used a pair of the Pythons for stakeouts (no walking around...just sitting in beer coolers) after that, since I also had my trusty 870 and #00. Kept the M57 for years, but finally swapped it for something I can't recall now. Sigh...

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Run Fast, Bite Hard!

Sorry I missed this before... As I recall both were "N" prefix guns meaning that they would be 1969 or after production...

Bob

Thanks for the review of the ammo... I am hoping those COP rounds are going in the 1100-1200 fps range. The HP is noticeably larger than the Barnes so it should open up quickly. Last time I checked Midway way out of both the ammo and bullets...will be buying some when they have some back in stock.....

ikor...that custom 58 is just what I would love to have right down to the hard chrome finish....maybe one day...

Bob

The one I bought last week showed.
Much better than expected. I had the proper stocks.
1972 vintage...tight and right. Barely a turn line.

That is a beauty.. Well done.

I kinda remember when mine looked like that.

Interesting, I assumed they were add-on's. I just picked one up outfitted with TH, TT and Cokes.

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Sure you did

Mine came with a smooth target trigger..regular hammer.

Wow! That looks absolutely brand-new to me! Congrats!

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

howdy , my early 58 came with a target trigger regular hammer , food for thought , time for another beer, no not worry , I will not rust my models 58

Got this Tyler T grip from a fellow on GB. It was listed as used with a buy it now for $20 w/shipping.

Ok I took a chance. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it had been powder coated. Nicely done too and I am sure much more durable than the original finish.

So here it is on my 1965 S prefix 58. It feels good too..

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Take your time..quickly.

Beautiful gun...

I used to be one of Tyler's distributors...the later flat black Ts were powder coated.

Bob

Some of Federal factory ammo like Deep Curl (Gold Dot) comes in nickeled brass... I don't ever recall seeing any new nickel brass for sale.

Bob

Winchester Silver tips are nickled brass. 170 gr. I think.
Never bought them in .41; as I reload , all I shoot , in my Mod. 58.

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Dino in Pittsburgh's Rat Pack

OOPS , MY BAD...not nickled in handgun brass. (currently. ) & That's 175 grain bullets.

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Dino in Pittsburgh's Rat Pack