Model 25-2 accuracy?

I have a friend who has been shooting for at least 35 years, has at least 40 pistols who was telling me his 25-2 is very pickey about the ammo that goes through it. I was looking into finding one, but although he liked his, he didn't care for it that much. He said the only ammo it liked was a lower grain wadcutter, shooting typical ball it was terrible. Having seen him shoot consistant 2.5 inch groups at 50 yards, it had me wondering. From what I have been reading on these and other forums, the 25-2 was a great gun and very accurate too, but I haven't seen much mentioned about the ammo used.

What has been your experience?

My most accurate load for my 25-2 was with .452 dia. 230 gr. round nose lead in auto rim brass. I used bullseye powder. I have never fired jacketed bullets in it.

2.5 @ 50 yards is impressive.

I have shot several 25-2's over the years and have never had problems with accuracy. I have shot everything from 185 gr. lead swc to 235 gr. wc and even with older eyes and not so steady hands, I can still maintain 90% 10's off hand at 25 yds.. I don't recall ever using ball ammo on paper with a 25-2 and I don't recall shooting it at 50 yds. either. However, I thoroughly enjoy the 25-2, I probably would use a 1911 type pistol for competition, but for pure fun I always choose the 25-2. At least that is my opinion. Take care,
Steve.

There seems to be a good bit of variation with these guns. I had a 25-2 that I set up for practical revolver competition, like steel plate shooting and IDPA. It only liked .454" bullets and once I found a good source for 200g RNs of that diameter and a way to load them consistently, it shot quite well. I competed with it for almost 3 years.

I have one now that wears a tapered, Model of 1950 barrel and it shoots OK but my .452" plated bullets don't match the .455"-.456" chamber mouths it's cylinder has. Since I don't compete any more and I'm just plinking at plates it's good enough for my purposes. If I wanted it to shoot better I think I would have to go to .454" cast bullets again.

Dave

PS: These comments don't apply to the newer 625s, or for that matter all the 25-2s out there.

I've owned and shot a Mod. 25-2 since the early 70's. I own several Mod 25's in different dash numbers and I've never experienced the throat size problems occasionally mentioned by others.

The groves are shallower on the 25's than other calibers and they do require some experimenting to find the bullet diameter and shape the gun likes best.

If you reload your own it is a model and caliber to own... If you cast and size your own bullets all the better...

One of my favorite guns S&W should have made in a 5 inch, too.....

JMHO

My only 25-2 shoots lights out with all ammo so I guess I got lucky.

25-2 with 6.5 inch barrel and Kurac custom Maple grips

I had 6 of them once, all 25-2's, 1 with a 6 inch barrel, the others were 6-1/2 inchers.

They all shot better or worse with different ammunition. A couple shot well with about anything, I only found a few loads a couple others liked. None shot badly, mind you, they just each had preferences.

The loading that all of them shot very well was W-W Super Match 185 grain Full Metal Case, catalog number X45AWCP. It was kind of pricey, but I traded into a couple of cases of it and still have one partial case left.

I can't (then or now) shoot well enough hand-held to really know, but I was playing with a Ransom Rest at the time and it sure shot better than I ever will.

I recently bought a Ransom Rest and several forms including N frame. When I get time I will try my 25-2 out with different loads.

It's one of my favorite guns so I shoot it a lot. My guess is it shoots about anything better than I can.

I have never measured the cylinder. It's a fine gun.

S&W should have made in a 5 inch, too.....

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TDC I couldn't agree more. In fact, I liked the idea so much I found a "non-collector" grade Model of 1955 and had it made into a 5"



Since the picture was taken I've had the Patridge front made into a ramp and the gun now wears an old, hand checkered set of Herritt's Shooting Stars. Oh, and I put a standard width trigger on for DA work.

Dave

I'm in about the same position, My 25-2 has cylinder throats .455" and so far (other than Win 230 ball) I haven't found a load that seems to group that great. I've been getting 2.5 to 3.5" groups at 25 yards (Factory Ball gets about 1.5"). I have read with this large of cylinder throat's .454" bullets work well. I have obtained some 200 gr. .454 LRNFP bullets, 45 colt with small crimp groove, to work with. Any recommendations for powder/load? My go to powders are 231, Tightgroup, & WST for 45 acp. I intend to use with regular 45 acp brass with moon-clips.

Both my model of 1950 .45 ACP and a 25-5 have large throats in .456 or greater range. I have not shot the .45 Colt yet and only played around with the 1950, so can't really tell they shoot. I do have some concerns about their accuracy.

A few years ago I was at a good friends shop just after he purchased a large collection from a family who's Grandfather had passed. They didn't know, or care, what they had, they just wanted money. Guns, tools, brass, bullets and many accessories.
Being on the spot at the right time I kind of got the pick of the litter which was a pristine 25-2, I think I paid $400 as a friend and quick sale for the owner to start recouping funds.
This guy was a serious gun crank at one time, he obviously cared a great deal for his guns and loads as many had been customised. However he seemed to have started slipping as some of the things that were bought made no sense, in particular a M38 that he had cobbled a 6" barrel onto, why? Don't know, no one will, it was really odd looking, not original but fairly well done.
The M25-2 I bought came with a tag that read 'Use Rem AR brass and Rem 185g jhp only'. That was odd, and when I got it home I found that the forcing cone had been cut to a certain angle, all the chambers where numbered 1 - 6 and it had some excellent trigger work done on it. That is where the work had stopped as it honestly doesn't look like it has been fired at all. As I said, much of the stuff in this collection was great, some was out in La-la land.
Also with it I got 500 old Remington AR brass all in boxes of 50, all primed and prepped, trimmed and expanded for the 1K Rem 185g jhp's that I also got. These are old components, the brass is in the old green/yellow Remington boxes and bullets are in a bulk shipped box from Remington. All that fro $400 was a good deal.
Chamber throats seem to measure a consistent .453 or so, but with just an electronic caliper it's hard to tell.
Sadly, I haven't had time to take it out and fire it, so I can't say what it will do yet, but the custom work meant something to the old guy at one time. Too bad it didn't mean anything to those who ended up with it.
RD

H Richard said:

I'm in about the same position, My 25-2 has cylinder throats .455" and so far (other than Win 230 ball) I haven't found a load that seems to group that great. I've been getting 2.5 to 3.5" groups at 25 yards (Factory Ball gets about 1.5"). I have read with this large of cylinder throat's .454" bullets work well. I have obtained some 200 gr. .454 LRNFP bullets, 45 colt with small crimp groove, to work with. Any recommendations for powder/load? My go to powders are 231, Tightgroup, & WST for 45 acp. I intend to use with regular 45 acp brass with moon-clips.

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Nightowl said:

Both my model of 1950 .45 ACP and a 25-5 have large throats in .456 or greater range. I have not shot the .45 Colt yet and only played around with the 1950, so can't really tell they shoot. I do have some concerns about their accuracy.

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I load my own ammo and cast my own bullets but as I indicated on my post I've not had the throat problem you guys have.

The first thing I'd do is slug the barrel to determine how much variation there is between the throats and then provide an accurate barrel size as a comparative reference.

You have several options you may want to investigate to consider an attempt to remedy the problem.

Once you find a bullet diameter you believe will be suitable for your gun, find a friend or company who cast their own bullets. They may have bullet sizer dies ranging from .451 up to .455. If they are knowledgeable about casting they should also have several alloy combination's for you to experiment with. Alloy is important because its hardness or softness can be a major factor in each individual bullets performance and many times it can compensate for throat problems, especially something like you describe with your Mod. 25's.

Don't concern yourself with fine tuning normal reloading processes (powder, primers, etc) until you find a lead bullet/alloy your gun seems to like to digest with reasonable accuracy.

You may have some extra work cut out for you but everything I mentioned should be performed on every handgun anyway, IMO.

I don't know if the mods here will permit the mention of another website. They can eliminate this address if it isn't permitted, but another board I'm a member of, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ has some of the most knowledgeable people in the world with issues just like yours. Do a search on that website for your Mod 25 problem and you may find many solutions from trained metallurgists and others with more than a passing interest in bullet casting, handloading and shooting....

Your Mod. 25's are wonderful guns and I hope you can enjoy them as much as I do....

Hope this helps ya.....

I have not cast a bullet in more than 20 years. But, I still have a Lyman melting pot still in the box from that time frame. I am planning on casting again when I retire, so I can shoot more and with less financial strain. Thanks for the info. It looks like a very good place to find out more about bullet technology. In the past, I was casting for quantity for .38 Special and .44 magnums. I used to shoot a lot more than today.

I am cheap but don't cast my bullets. I buy in bulk from the Mo Bullet Co.

I haven't measured my 25-2 cylinders and I don't know if MBC will oversize some .45's.

fyimo said:

My only 25-2 shoots lights out with all ammo so I guess I got lucky.

25-2 with 6.5 inch barrel and Kurac custom Maple grips

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Very nice, looks like Ivory. I hope mine turn out that nice.

I love reading "Model 25-2 accuracy threads."

There seem to be two camps on these guns. One says their gun shoots fine, and sometimes they mention it favors ball, or cast semi-wadcutters, or whatever. The other camp claims the guns they have shot and been around either were mediocre shooters, or worse.

I will say two things:
1. I have never seen a 25-2 that would outshoot a good 44 Magnum, and admittedly most S&W 44 Magnums shoot pretty good. Ditto a 1950 .44 Target. Never saw a 25-2 that would keep up with one.
2. I have never fired a 25-2 (in stock configuration) that I thought shot well enough to be considered a "target gun."

Other than that, I will sit back and watch for the latest intelligence.

Wow! Well I have never slugged mine, but I did win a pistol league with it. The league was shot at various distances indoors at a max of 50 feet. I shot some amazingly tight groups that year, all with light loads of Clays under 200 grain Rainier plated (I know, blasphemy!) boolets in .45 acp brass in moon clips. I got several offers to buy that gun, but it's not for sale!

Flogging the 25-2

Howdy,
I came here looking for info on the expectations of a 25-2.
I have had a couple over the years but mostly just to bang away at pins or plates and I never put forth much effort to see what one would do.
I recently picked up another one. I hope to keep this one and not let it get away as I did the others.
It came in as almost unused other than being dropped. The damage was explained by the seller and other than the grips and rear sight blade it is pretty nice.
I picked it up and had ten rounds each, of four different bullets, loaded with 4.5 WW231, WW primers and mixed ACP brass. Factory half moon clips were used.
I headed for the bulls eye range at Arnold Rifle and Pistol Club. I set up at the 25 yard line but I had the wife's car and forgot to load the shooting bags. All groups were fired with fore arms resting on the presentation case.I think I left a little on the table.
Here is the gun.

Throats measured around .457 evenly around the cylinder.

Having read this thread and with the throats running large I was surprised to see it did not like WW 230 jacketed bullets. It shot them into a 4" group with 9 of the ten going into 3 1/16" CTC.

I switched to a 230 grain, hard cast and I wont even post the results. It is too good of bullet. It shoots great in my autos but this gun would not shoot them.
Next up was the Magnus #808. It is a swaged 185 grain bullet.It was loaded to a OAL of 1.232 and all ten went into 1 3/4" This load shows potential and I need to tweak on it and see what might be left.
It is a all X-ring group if centered and will suit me if I don't find anything better. Seems odd that a .452 185 grain bullet worked this well in a gun with large throats. It is a soft almost flat base bullet.

Last was the Delta 185 grain swaged hollow point. I like these and have had good luck with them but they fell behind the #808. They do hold promise and I might mess with powder and OAL and see if they don't come around. Ten shot went in to 3 1/2" With eight of them a little under two inches.I have the ability to let one or two get away from time to time. It could have been me.
That's it for now. I'll try to post what ever I try here in the future. I want to try Magnus #801@185 grain and I want to run some 152-155 grain bullets.
What I learned so far seems to show my gun prefers a softer or possibly a lighter bullet. My bet is on the softer bullet.
I hope this is a help to some one.
Thanks
Mike
Addition Nov 21,11: Magnus bullets think the bullets I used to shoot the 1 3/4" group are #811.
I went to re-order #808 and noticed a different looking bullet in the Magnus ad. The box I used are marked #808 swaged 185 grain .452 dia but in fact look to be #811. Go Figure. Bullet styles can be viewed at magnusbullets.com