BruceM,

I agree with everything you said. Almost all of the "old meat" hunters neck shot. And most of them were careful about doing it. As in the case of the errant female they probably wouldn't have been using a cheap scope if they could avoid it.

I would suspect that a seriously accurate .243 loaded with a fast 70 to 85 grain hollowpoint would explode enough at close range that a slight miss might still kill quickly due to explosive reactions.

I have posted this elsewere but I knew of a meat hunter who killed his white-tails with neck shots with a .218 Bee at 10 feet.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

I have shot 2 deer with a .357 Magnum, and found it to be a marginal deer cartridge at best. This year, I moved up to a .45 Colt, and after seeing what it did to a large doe I shot with it, I would never go back to a .357 Magnum. Oh, and I would never even consider a .38 Special for deer.

Don

Same here. Heavy hard cast LSWC's coming out hot of my .41 mag. I try to keep my distances short. Most deer don't know what hit em and they always make two holes for a kill. Used to use the standard Remington 210 gr. JSP load for a couple of years back in the early 80's till I discovered hard cast bullets and a Rock Chucker. The Remingtons worked well but paled in comparison to my handloads.

A .38 is below marginal to risk losing a beautiful animal because of it's weak ballistics!

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V/R
Roger / SG

i agree, i do alot of handgun hunting for deer, the smallest caliber i carry is .41 mag.

IGGY nailed it in my opinion. I have more respect for the animal. Good luck in your choice.

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Go big or stay home

My apoligies , but came across this thread accidently thru Google rather than digging thru the forum archives.

Statement #1 - A former co-worker used a .38Spl for deer ( 4in Colt Diamondback , W-W 158 LHP ). Involved a 5 cell flashlight , and shooting at the glowing eyes, and they reportedly dropped instantly. Not aproving. Just reporting.

Statement #2 - I can't really envision much difference in effect between a complete penetration non-expanding .38Spl and a complete penetration non-expanding .357Mag. Take whichever combination of praise for .38 and slam on .357 as one wishes.

Statement #3 - A larger dia non-expanding bullet , even with "modest" energy , will be more forgiving than either.

The various Game Dept regulations can be either very vague , or excessively micromanaging. The required minimums can be non-existant , or actually well in excess of what is actually suitable.

"State A " requires 6in bbl , and min 700ftLb. "States B & C " which border A require 4in bbl , and 350ftlb , and the deer are the same on either side of respective state lines.

Biggfoot's preferences and recomendations are another topic. But B & C's regulations are a lot closer to reality , given decent shot placement , and suitable distance.

A .22 rimfire rifle is the poacher's standard armament mainly because of its low noise level. And a .22 will do the job with a close-up head shot. Many years ago, I had a friend who used a Winchester Model 43 in .22 Hornet as his deer rifle, and he got his limit every year with it. But he was a good shot, and, in that part of the country, you never got a shot opportunity over about 50 yards due to heavy cover. Even if legal, I wouldn't use a .38 Special handgun for deer hunting. For that matter, I wouldn't use any handgun for deer hunting. Why handicap yourself?

Actually.. yes and no..

No, in a handgun .38 special is not a legal caliber in Ohio ... has to be .357 or larger..

However.... Ohio now being able to use straight-walled cartridge rifles.. the .38 special is listed..
From the ODNR website ...
(New this year, specific straight-walled cartridge rifles are now legal for use during the deer-gun season. These specific straight-walled cartridge rifles are legal for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum,
.38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson )

For some reason there seems to be a LOT of confusion over this...

sorry for the thread drift..

Very well put. Many thousands of deer have been taken with .22 rimfire rifles. The .22 rimfire rifle serves as the basic tool used by game management officers across the country, frequently in suppressed versions for use in populated areas to cull deer without unduly upsetting residents. Typically a 60-grain bullet at about 1000FPS, well under the power of just about any .38 Special revolver load.

There is a huge difference between hunting and killing. The .22LR will reliably put down a deer at short ranges (under 50 yards certainly) with a head shot, and that is not difficult to achieve on an animal standing still, especially at night in the beam of a spotlight. This does not mean that the .22LR is acceptable for deer hunting, which can be expected to involve animals in cover, moving at all angles, and perhaps with some sense of alarm that has raised adrenaline levels to the "fight or flight" level of survival.

Over the years I have used a .38 Special revolver to dispatch several deer that had been struck by automobiles. Some were obviously crippled and lying down, while others were upright and attempting to escape. I have used head shots when possible, but I have also used heart-lung shots on several. The .38 Special is certainly capable of doing the job at short ranges, but that does not make it a deer hunting weapon.

I was once tasked with culling deer on a military post because of an overpopulation problem with predictable damage (residential areas, golf course, and others). I did this at night using a spotlight and a M1911A-1 .45 caliber pistol. Just about all shots were taken within 25 yards on still animals. I used body shots exclusively with 230-grain ball ammunition. Most of the animals were in the 85-125 lb. range (not really well nourished). I took dozens of deer in this manner. None required a second shot. None went further than a few yards before going down. None went to waste; every one was field dressed and delivered to a family that wanted the meat.

That experience did not convince me that the .45ACP is a proper choice for deer hunting, only that it will do the job of killing quickly at short range under relatively controlled conditions.

When I hunted deer I usually used either a .30-06 or .30-30 rifle, or in one state with restrictions I used a shotgun with rifled slugs. I took one deer using .357 magnum, at about 40 yards with a standing animal and broadside shot through the heart-lung area, and that worked quite well. I recall missing a few shots also, and I remember one big Colorado mule deer buck taken at 400-plus yards with .30-06 that required 3 shots into the chest cavity before he went down (and a 4th as a mercy shot), providing a lesson on terminal ballistics at extended ranges.

Know your game and hunting conditions, and take enough gun to do the job cleanly under any circumstances that might arise.

I live where a lot of folks hunt deer with pointy sticks with strings that propel missiles at an amazing 400 fps. The experienced ones usually get it finished with a good blood trail, the lesser ones, well life is not about "fair". That said, deer are lost to 12gauge gut shots, placement is everything.

What vital organ resides in a deer's NECK? Some of the toughest MUSCLE as well as thickest hide is found on the neck and front of the chest.

Why not LUNG shoot the deer? Pop both lungs and it's done. If you hit the heart as well, it's a bonus.

I have never understood the hunters who shoot at heads and necks versus where their vital organs reside. Many state they wish to save meat. How much meat is saved if the animal is lost? You take out the heart or lungs through the ribcage...so you lose some RIB meat? Who cares.

And the story regarding your Road Deputies. They either need some marksmanship training or are shooting THE most frangible .45 slugs available to man.

I HEAD shot hundreds of road injured deer every year when I was on the Hwy Patrol. We would have so many deer hit on the Interstate that occasionally I did 2-3 a shift.
When we carried +P .38's and 125 gr HP's I had no issues. Same for the 147 gr 9mm sub sonic loads. Hardly the optimal loads but with proper placement they worked.

To the OP: Please don't shoot your deer with a .38 special. Unless they will stand still for you so you can get within 10 or 15 feet. Then I suggest a shot to the ear canal at an angle to go out through the other ear. Works very well.

FN in MT

Not to worry. The OP, buckman, hasn't been on the forum since November 2011, when this thread was active. Kind of a "hit and run".

Interesting discussion though.

Hunting ethics, use a big enough gun for a quick clean kill we owe it to the animal. To use a 38 special is just not right. I never hunted with anything less than a 44 Magnum. Being new to the 41 Magnum I might try that. I carried the 357 Magnum as back up but have up carrying handguns when I purchased the 338wm.

It's like me hunting with a 1911/45acp. There's a clown on you tube going through magazines while chasing a hog. It's not funny at all.

I'm not a hunter, but I did buy some Buffalo Bore +P "Outdoorsman" cartridges for curiosity's sake because BB claims they got 500 ft/lb.s of muzzle energy out of a gun that's almost identical to my late '50's model 14. That's pretty much .357 power.

As I recall, the energy drops dramatically by 40 yards; cartridge wasn't intended for hunting, but I think close up protection against black bears. Bullet is hardcast for skull/shoulder bone penetration, and wouldn't really mushroom like a hunting bullet is supposed to do.

According to what I've read, the cartridge was not developed because .38 Special is an optimum round for that application - it was developed for old-timers who have a .38 and don't want to buy a more powerful gun. Out of a Marlin or Rossi rifle, some .38 Special ammo could have fairly impressive ballistics at 40 or 50 yards, but not so much in a handgun.

THINK ABOUT IT. DO YOU HONESTLY IMAGINE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE BETTER RESULTS THAN ELMER ? ? ?

PUT YOUR EGO ASIDE, AND CARRY ENOUGH GUN, WITH THE APPROPRIATE AMMO, TO DISPATCH YOUR GAME IN A HUMANE MANNER. THAT'S WHAT ETHICAL HUNTING IS ALL ABOUT. IN ANY EVENT, I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED TO LEARN THAT HUNTING DEER WITH A .38 CALIBER REVOLVER IS LEGAL IN YOUR STATE…...

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Heck, why not use a hammer?

As so often, Lobo nailed it:

some people say a 30-30 should not be used, it is outdated and just not up to the job. after all why use that when you can use a 30-06 or 300 mag. but the same folks will say a 44 mag. is a monster of a handgun to use on a deer.

a 30-30 with 170gr. bullet has more energy at 100 yds than a 44 mag. has at the muzzle with a 240 gr. bullet. i know a 38 dose not have the velocity of a 357 mag.but it will go slam through a broad side deer. a double lung hit and it is over within 50 yds or so. here is what an lowly outdated 30-30 will do with a way to small of a bullet to be effective on deer. a sierra 125gr. hp. it's all about placement placement placement...

i black powder hunt to and people take many deer all the time with 32 and 40 cal. round balls with low velocity and no expansion all the time....... placement

Absolutely not.

Never been a deer hunter and preferred chasing birds, but threads like this one are fun to watch as all the experts get pretty heated about their opinions.

I certainly agree with use enough gun, but settling on a choice starts many discussions just as in personal defense calibers. I think being able to hit a target consistently is much more important than caliber, and that depends on the shooter. Some are patient enough to wait for the proper time to shoot while others shoot more bushes than game.

The comparison between the 30-30 and 44 Maggie is enlightening. Both are good calibers for brush guns.

It would be interesting to know what the OP actually did and how successful he has been.

38/44 with 158 gr lead bullets at 50 yards equal meat in the freezer..

Know your local rules:

In Texas "game animals and non-migratory game birds may be hunted with any legal firearm, except rimfire ammunition (of any caliber) may NOT be used to hunt white-tailed deer, mule deer, desert bighorn sheep, or pronghorn".

© Copyright Texas Parks and Wildlife Department

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Come and take it!!

If you are meat hunting for survival, then I guess it would be acceptable. Need to be a good shot,not like most of the "Hunters" that I see at the range. For every day hunting I would say most are not accurate enough. That said I have a friend that did meat hunting for his family. Rather poor at the time and a large family. He used a old thumb cock Winchester .22 LR. Why you ask? Well they were poor and ammo expensive. The other reason was their property back up to a National Forest.....and that was where he shot them. His aim point was in the eye for a brain shot, always dropped then and there.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Be careful, or else there will be 9 & 13 year old zombie deer running around...much like this thread.

Hard no! Been deer hunting for a better part of 40 years. They are tough and have a will to survive. There blood coagulates pretty fast. The rifles pick up pretty good speed and energy. Compare the 38 to a 30-30. Understand a 22 will do it but really wouldn’t ever consider to hunt with it. I say .357 minimum, myself I don’t go for anything under a 44. We owe it to the animal. Just my thoughts.

Unless you are using one of the huge pistol calibers placement and penetration are the number one concerns. A properly placed SWC.38 Spec bullet will kill a deer quickly but it must in the right spot. There is no shock or impact value in a pistol bullet unless it is from a large magnum. So be good enough and or close enough to put your shot through the lungs and you will be eating venison.

11 year old thread made a gasp in 2015 and back this week.

I have put two deers down with a .38 +P 125 grain JHP.

Now one of my classmates in Grade School. His father was the local poacher and sometimes Danny will come to school with a pocket of .22 rimfire cartridges. I don't recall now if they were Shorts or Longs.

I am a firm believe in using enough gun.

But, it isn't as simple as this is the minimum caliber or case size.

Montana had 3,700 bow hunters successful take elk in 2023. A bow has less power than a 38 special and it is limited to about 50 yard. Very few elk or even deer drop on the spot from arrows, they bleed out from the arrows wound. Are bow hunters unethical? I'd not suggest you tell many of them that to their face.

I would say that to be a successful bow hunters you have to be much better hunters than most rifle or handgun hunters.

I have seen guys at the range jerking and bucking with their scoped 7 mm, 300 and 338 mags. I have seen guys that could shoot a deer in the eye at 100 yards with a 22lr. and guys and one gal that can put every strong hand round in the 10 ring shooting a 38 special double action (the gal uses a 625 45acp). There are guys that can sit patiently for days waiting for just the right opportunity and there are guys that drive down the road, jump out and blaze away with their semi auto at the first deer they see even if it is 400 yards away.

I saw a guy with a tricked out 6.5 Creedmoor with adjustable stock a 6-20 scope complete with level bubble, miss a buck that was standing dead still looking at us at 50 yard. Not enough gun??? I could have hit it right between the eyes with a 22 and end of story.

Enough gun for an ethical kill varies from a guy with 22 lr to a guy who shouldn't hunt with a Vulcan cannon from a A10 Warthog.

A lot more depends on the hunter than the gun.

With the right hunter a 38 special is plenty, if he can't limit himself and make the perfect shot with a 38 special, why do you believe he would be fine hunting with a 500 S&W. Same principals apply, have to have and know your ability, be able estimate the range and be willing to pass up shots that are not right and or beyond YOUR range.

Which is more ethical, a deer gut shot with a 500 at 100 yard one gut shot with a 338 win mag at 300 yard or a deer shot with a 158 hard cast semi wad cutter right behind the front quarter?

For me there would have to be a reason the chose a 38 special when I have some nice 45 colts. But, should I really take shots with one of them that might not kill with a good 38. Not many

Wow, this thread again. Like a bad penny...

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Now go make God proud...

WHY?????? Would anyone want to "gimp up" "wound" And probably "LOSE" a deer or other animal by shooting it with an inferior cartridge?

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S&W Accumulator

Anchored in the top of a dead tree crappie fishing with me Dad long many years ago. My gun was holstered and loaded back by him in a side compartment. I heard something coming toward us up on the bank, so I asked for my gun. A black feral hog stepped sideways to me in the open and stopped. It was about a seventy yard shot.

I used to shoot at an indoor gun range once or twice a week, and all that practice had me find the right spot to hit the ten on a target. It was loaded with 148 grain wadcutter reloads. I had a lot of confidence for good reasons.

Killed that 125 to 135 pound sow with one through the heart. He made a small grunt sound and stepped into a tree surrounded by bushes right in front of him and stopped. Game warden saw the pistol and congratulated me.

We had two BBQs with a half pig and a keg of beer. A friend made Brunswick Stew I never knew how much it actually cost for a small party of a dozen or so. That was a Model 14-3 6".

When going hunting, I was taught to shoot for the heart. My Remington LH700 bolt action 30-06 was as accurate. My friend shot a lot with 30-30,
and I got pretty good at trailing animals.

Studying a book I had bought for snipers decades late, I set up two .308s
. Had a semi-auto for doe days and a bolt action for buck only. Most every shot I took was a neck shot. Shot one where his neck and spine joined. Shot one in the eye. Never again heard one run off, as they just disappeared. Never heard the bullet. What to shoot in a neck? Center mass of the bone structure. Didn't start neck shooting for meat: it killed them in a second. No more tracking. Deer never knew what happened. That was because of how I hold them in deep respect.

Would I grab a .38 to take hunting deer and such? No. Yes, I've killed with a bow and arrow. Killed with a crossbow, but gave the crossbow away. Spine shot a hog, and they don't allow a .22 handgun for a quick dispatch where I hunt. It was the only shot I had.

Now that I have reached oldtimer status, don't know about dragging one a football field without help. The stand and gun are a lot after two back surgeries and a bad hip. Need a new partner, I guess. I'll miss the evenings of hunting in the river bottom swamps I feel as holy ground, and will be forever thankful for having done so: The Glory of the swamps and little islands.

Seventy foot shot...sorry.

I am going to dig out my safe queen 38-44 Outdoorsman’s, holster it in the nice old holster I bought a few years back from our own beloved Turnerriver, and shoot a big buck dead! With these— 38 Special +P 158gr. Keith Black Cherry Coated Hard Cast Hunting Ammo.

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Love my country, hate my govt.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Rock Island Armory sells an inexpensive 12 or 20 gauge shotgun with sights that will easily kill a deer at 50 yards. Get one of those. It's not much bigger than a hog leg revolver. I've got the 20. It folds in half and fits in a backpack. Rural King has them for $108.
Rock Island Armory Traditional Single Shot 12ga 20" TK113 : RK Guns

Back from the dead ...some just wont die !!!
I realy need to pay more attention to the Dates !
13 years old ... Sheesh
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I've done it, too!

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Now go make God proud...

Sounds too much like trying to pull a stunt.
Be considerate of the animal and use something bigger.

Thread left open for informational purposes, but the OP hasn't been here for almost 13 years...

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

On a number of occasions, I have had shots at deer that were from five to ten feet. Had one that I could almost have touched. At that sort of distance, I would use a .38 Special loaded with any good self-defense type bullet that would give 15 - 18 inches of penetration. On out to even 10 yds., this should work fine. I would use any of my six inch revolvers. That would enhance velocity as well as allow me to kill any wandering ticks on impact. Now, out beyond 15 yds., I do not think I would use any but the most heavily loaded .38 Special loads from Buffalo Bore, etc. Last time I went hunting, a doe slipped by me at about 10 - 12 foot. I had my rifle in my hands, could not reach my holstered revolver w/o disturbing her. So, I let her go. Later that morning, got a very nice doe when she was jumping a fence. She was a little over 125 yds. away so of course I used my rifle. Sincerely. bruce.

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<><

It's legal in Alabama, but I haven't tried it, and wouldn't. In a have-to situation, yes, it can be done. But you can carry a .357 as easily as a .38, so why? If I were going to do it I would load a 173 gr Keith 357429 to 1000 fps, doable in a strong revolver though I wouldn't recommend a steady diet of such a load. I've shot a few deer with that bullet in a .357 at about 1200 fps, and though I feel better with any of my several .44s, I have to say the .357 shot deer died just as quick as those shot with a .44. I use a cast 429244 Ray Thompson design HP/GC for my hunting loads in my .44s.