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11-25-2011, 11:47 PM
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May be a silly question...Model 17 versus Model 18
I have to ask...what is the difference between the 17 and 18? Both are K-frame 22s...and am unsure of the difference.
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11-25-2011, 11:53 PM
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Model 17 = Target Masterpiece. Choice of 6" or 8-3/8" barrel. Usually issued with patridge front sight. There are known exceptions, however.
Model 18 = Combat Masterpiece. 4" barrel usually issued with a ramp front sight. There are known exceptions, however.
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11-26-2011, 12:16 AM
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Thanks for the information!!
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11-26-2011, 01:54 AM
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The M17 K-22 is more of a target revolver. It is just like the M16 Target Masterpiece in .32 Caliber and the M14 Target Masterpiece in .38 Spl.
The M18 Combat Masterpiece is the same revolver as the M15 Combat Masterpiece except for caliber. The M15 is a .38 Spl. and the M18 is a .22 LR. The M18 was initially designed as a training gun for Police Officers who carried the M15.
Jim
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11-26-2011, 02:19 AM
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I wish they'd offer stainless versions of the 17 and 18. Yes, I know about the 63 & 617 - one's a j-frame, and one is an unnecessarily heavy L frame.
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11-26-2011, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan
I wish they'd offer stainless versions of the 17 and 18. Yes, I know about the 63 & 617 - one's a j-frame, and one is an unnecessarily heavy L frame.
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The M617 is a K-Frame. Just a stainless version of the M17 K-22.
Jim
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11-26-2011, 03:40 AM
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Titan,
But still your point is well taken; it is a K frame but 617s are too heavy with that lugged barrel. I'm about 'this' close to installing a 17 barrel after having it refinished in one of the plethora of hi tech finishes out there, whichever most closely matches the stainless steel!
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Last edited by Hondo44; 11-26-2011 at 03:43 AM.
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11-26-2011, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44
Titan,
But still your point is well taken; it is a K frame but 617s are too heavy with that lugged barrel. I'm about 'this' close to installing a 17 barrel after having it refinished in one of the plethora of hi tech finishes out there, whichever most closely matches the stainless steel!
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Or you can try and find a factory non-lugged 617 from one of the Ashland runs....might be better off searching for a Unicorn though
Someday, when I'm old and retired, I'm going to buy a pre-lock 4" 617 and send it off to have the lug professionally milled off.
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11-26-2011, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinett_11B
Or you can try and find a factory non-lugged 617 from one of the Ashland runs....might be better off searching for a Unicorn though
Someday, when I'm old and retired, I'm going to buy a pre-lock 4" 617 and send it off to have the lug professionally milled off.
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Ashland model: I didn't even want to go there.
I've had that lug removal in mind as well, but I don't know if someone will taper the barrel as well. I like the sleekness of the early tapered barrels.
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11-26-2011, 10:13 AM
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My 17-6 does not have the full-lug barrel.
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11-26-2011, 11:10 AM
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This topic comes up once in a while,
Here is a link to the last time as it covered alot of the questions at hand.
M-17 4"
( 1985 ) The Model 18 line was dropped with the 18-4 ,(until its recent revival with internal lock).
(1986 to 1989) ...Realizing a 4" K22 was still needed they offered a 4" version of the Model 17-5,
at that time it had a heavier no underlug barrel .
Some transitional late 17-4's , early 17-6s and early stainess 617's ( sometimes marked 17-6)
are found with the heavy no underlug barrel.
Last edited by Engine49guy; 11-26-2011 at 11:21 AM.
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11-26-2011, 11:23 AM
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4" 17 humm...
so just when you think you have it figured out
This was my dads, he got around 1968. I dont know the history other than this is the way he got it.
My guess is it was rebarreled at some point, I dont know for sure or why?
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11-26-2011, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelgun28
4" 17 humm...
so just when you think you have it figured out
This was my dads, he got around 1968. I dont know the history other than this is the way he got it.
My guess is it was rebarreled at some point, I dont know for sure or why?
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wheelgun,
The only way to tell for sure is to get a letter, but I highly suspect that the factory used a 17-2 frame to use up a 4" barrel in inventory. It's not that uncommon. Sometimes they overstamp the model # with the correct # but I've seen cases where they didn't.
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11-26-2011, 03:53 PM
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Obviously not an overstamp. But it is not all that uncommon to find a wrongly marked model as I understand they make and mark frames prior to them becoming complete revolvers. I guess they sometimes neglect to re-stamp the model number.
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11-26-2011, 11:25 PM
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Wheelgun28 several things occur to me viewing your gun,
First the frame is not mis stamped because it is a 17 frame.
Second its definately an 18 barrel,
Its hard to imagine S&W QC would not to catch a major mistake like that but a letter is the only way to know for sure how it left the factory.
I am guessing the PC Diamond Magnas do not number to the gun?
PC's were usually used on non target frames
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11-27-2011, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy
Wheelgun28 several things occur to me viewing your gun,
First the frame is not mis stamped because it is a 17 frame.
Second its definately an 18 barrel,
Its hard to imagine S&W QC would not to catch a major mistake like that but a letter is the only way to know for sure how it left the factory.
I am guessing the PC Diamond Magnas do not number to the gun?
PC's were usually used on non target frames
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Well your right of course, the frame was meant to be made up into a Model 17. Lee has stepped in to 'referee' several of these kinds of threads. If original from the factory (and that's a big if) in it's present Model 18 configuration IIRC he contends that it was assembled as a Model 18, therefore is a Mod 18 and has a mismarked frame because it wasn't overstamped Mod 18.
But counter intuitive as it may seem, they have and do leave the factory this way on occasion. And right, it begs to be lettered.
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11-27-2011, 08:17 AM
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I bought a real nice slightly used 18-3 back in '89 from an FFL friend when I lived in NJ. The receipt shows it's an 18-3.
I always figured that they need to make up some 18's and used available 17 frames.
Here is a photo of the over stamp model #. Maybe 15 years ago I called S&W to ask about the over stamp and if my gun was an 18 or 17 and any other info. The woman that I spoke with replied, "I couldn't tell you." I asked if it could be determined by the serial #. She wasn't able to check. ?????
I gave up at that point and have always called it an 18-3.
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Last edited by JimC; 11-27-2011 at 08:21 AM.
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03-17-2022, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
I bought a real nice slightly used 18-3 back in '89 from an FFL friend when I lived in NJ. The receipt shows it's an 18-3.
I always figured that they need to make up some 18's and used available 17 frames.
Here is a photo of the over stamp model #. Maybe 15 years ago I called S&W to ask about the over stamp and if my gun was an 18 or 17 and any other info. The woman that I spoke with replied, "I couldn't tell you." I asked if it could be determined by the serial #. She wasn't able to check. ?????
I gave up at that point and have always called it an 18-3.
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I ,too, have a 17/18-3. On close inspection you can definitely see the the 8 is overstamped on the 7.
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11-27-2011, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44
.......counter intuitive as it may seem, they have and do leave the factory this way on occasion. And right, it begs to be lettered.
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I agree with you Jim,
It is a very interesting piece and while I do not letter most of my guns the previous K22 really needs to be lettered to see if the barrel was installed originally or after it left the factory.
JimC
While anything is possible,
IMO Your K22 was mis stamped as a Mod 17 then overstamped as it is clearly a Model 18 frame and barrel.
If I use my imagination I can come up with several scenarios where they might convert a M17 to a M18 at the factory but it doesnt make sense when you consider the Model 18 was still in production at the time.
Again anything is possible with S&W.
Again all this is just my opinion.
Thanks for sharing it.
Last edited by Engine49guy; 11-27-2011 at 03:34 PM.
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11-27-2011, 04:10 PM
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Well I guess I will letter the gun at some point.
As for the stocks, I put them on they were cheap via internet auction years ago. My dad being shall I say frugal, had the original magnas from his M 28 on it...
I put them back on the 28 and scrounged the ones that are on it. I guess frugality is a family tradition
Also, it would seem my dad bought this gun used. I think the SN is from around 1961 or so and he bought in in 1968 as best I can tell. This is the only gun he bought that I dont have the receipt for. He lived in NY at that time and the SN is on his permit.
Also, I cant ask dad about the gun (passed on) the store where he bought all the other guns closed up around 1980. The only chance for any history is the factory.
Was there a time in the 1960s that M-18s were hard to find, or M-17s hard to sell?
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11-27-2011, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelgun28
Well I guess I will letter the gun at some point.
Was there a time in the 1960s that M-18s were hard to find, or M-17s hard to sell?
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Generally speaking, shooters of that era were beginning to favor the advantages of the shorter barrels on all models. The era of the popularity in formal NRA Bullseye matches was on the wane. Roy Jimks has said many times in so many words, S&W didn't give a wit about collectors. They're goal was to move product out the door and stay profitable and competetive.
So if orders for 18s were coming in that didn't match parts in inventory, they used what they had to fill orders. So I would say yes in answer to your question. I think you hit the nail on the head!
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03-17-2022, 04:49 PM
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I own both the M17 & M18. Had to buy the M17 to see what the difference is. You got to be a really S&W expert to tell. Barrel length is the obvious giveaway but I'm sure the I've see the M18 with a 6" barrel. Keep thinking I should sell one but....
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03-17-2022, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemer-mark
I'm sure the I've see the M18 with a 6" barrel.
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We've had a few of them show up here on the Forum over the past few years. Without exception, they have all turned out to have had a barrel change. When asked, Roy has confirmed they shipped with 4" barrels.
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Tags
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617, bullseye, combat masterpiece, combats, k frame, k-22, k-frame, k22, kit gun, l frame, lock, m14, m16, m17, masterpiece, model 14, model 15, model 16, model 17, model 19, nra, patridge, smith-wessonforum.com, target masterpiece |
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