I'm sixty two and THE first pistol I ever shot was a .32 Smith snubbie when I was seven or eight. Started buying Smith revolvers as soon as the law allowed. My first a 28-2. I PROUDLY carried a M-19 as a cop in Jersey for several years. Then a 686 and a 5903 as a cop out here in Montana. To me the term REVOLVER brings up a picture of a Smiith & Wesson 19 or maybe a 27 in MY minds eye.

I've probably owned over two hundred Smiths , maybe more over the years. Still have sixty or more in the safe.

I can remember WAITING for the new S&W catalog to be released each year. And being excited when it finally arrived. I haven't been excited about ANYTHING from Smith in about 15 years. Between the lock and the design changes...Sorry simply not the same anymore.

You can call me NEGATIVE or whatever you wish. Try to put a POSITIVE spin on it. Candy coat it all you want but suck on a bar of soap for a few minutes. It's still a bar of soap.

FN in MT

I enjoy going to the range with my Mod 28 that I bought almost 40 years ago. I shoot at 25 yards or more; open sight, no laser... the mostly younger folks with their autos shooting up close. I nail the black and they're all over the place. The loud noise from the mags blocks out their little pops too. The HP is a crowd pleaser.

I've had quite a few watch and some even want to try my round gun after they see it in action (declined). I don't know if they ever buy one but, seeing revolvers in use certainly increases awareness. The little Judge is another attention getter and is also a revolver.

well im fixing to drive 4 hrs round trip to but a nickel 19-3 21/2 inch, does that tell you anything?

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

Uh yep...........

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Sure you did

It tells me that the place you are going is two hours away from you.

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Forum consigliere

..............

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Sure you did

I've said it before - this is a forum for some pretty picky players.

"Typical" gun owners can hardly fathom owning a second gun, much less the dozens and dozens collectors own here.

If I were to talk to Joe Six-Pack about "that piece of trash 686 - look at that. There's almost a full one thousandth of an inch difference from one side of the cylinder to the other" - he would nod, smile nervously, and back away slowly.

Talk about MIM and they are going to think that S&W has moved production to Tijuana.

Internal locks? Sounds easier than chaining it up with that bicycle lock that's in the box!

"Clocked" barrel? Oh, you mean GLock is supplying S&W with parts.



We ain't normal, people. We ain't normal people either

I am 58 years old and I remember well the S&W's back in the days before the pinned barrels and recessed chambers firing pins on the hammer nose. Colt got away from the hammer mounted firing pin with the Mark III revolvers. Believe it or not, I got a couple of lemons back then. I bought a M29-2 back in 78 that had a bad polish job on the sideplate and a rough chamber that caused it to have to take a trip back to Springfield. The customer service back then wasn't too good and the repair took a long time. I also had a M66(no dash) that couldn't hit the backside of the barn while standing in the barn. The rifling was screwed up and the firing pin bushing was rough.

Now, don't get me wrong, I like the oldies and have my share of them. I also have a couple with the newer construction features. One is a 629-whatever and a M625 Mountain Gun. Both have proven to be well constructed and accurate and dependable. I don't particularly like the IL but I just ignore it. The 629 has handled some pretty hot ammo with no ill effects.

I got a Colt Trooper that was out of time straight out of the box. Unfortunately, I wasn't knowledgable enough to catch it before I bought it. It was returned to Colt and it took over 6 mos to get back and when I got it, they had put a beautiful, shiny nickel plate on it. I didn't order the nickel job and they sent a bill to the gun shop for $120. They refused to pay it and I sold the revolver. Now, many mourn the loss of Colt revolvers but their manufacturing methods didn't keep pace with the market.

So, I agree with the OP. When I go to the range, I NEVER see anyone under my age shooting revolvers. Its all plastic except for the rare bird with a 1911. I brought the .44 to the indoor range and wound up with an audience of young folks watching in awe the old geezer with the funny cannon. I agree that things change and its misleading to always pine for the "good ole days". they weren't always so good...

My proof reading wasn't too good...I meant that I remember the days before the pinned barrels, etc were eliminated...Hopefully my first sentence makes more sense now...

My wife went through her CWP class last Saturday. I went with her to the range qualification to be with her and hold her ammo for reloading. 15 shooters on the line. She shot her 50 round qualification with my little nickel 2" 34 with nary a hiccup or problem. Where as down the line there were holdups at each stage with the auto shooters. Mostly 380's & 9mm's. I saw jams/loaded rounds ejected out on the ground and people forgetting to flip their "dingus" back up to fire or trying to reholster with the "dingus" up and cocked with the finger on the trigger.
It was almost hilarious to watch. Her instructors were Glock guys but had high praise for the 1911. Unbeknowing to them that was what was riding in an ISWB holster under my shirt.

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S&W Accumulator

I won't buy a gun with a lock. I associate it with gun control.

It's also like the maker is telling me I'm too dumb to use or store a weapon safely.

I'm not going to rant because a number of others have done it better than I could. And because I can still buy the revolvers I like and can afford. I have a couple fine 1911s and a fine Woodsman and a Seecamp, but the rest are revolvers. Those are from the 50's, 60's and 70's in most cases. I like how they were made, how they look, and how they shoot. I like the satin-finished wood and dense grain and diamonds and the checkering on the earlier ones. But I have to admit, all that aside, one of the reasons I like my '58 Model 17 is I have such great memories from 1958. I could list them but I won't bore you. If you were around then and had a good life going for yourself, you have your own. Maybe this aspect of older gun appreciation is just senior citizen rumination. But it seems like there were a lot of good things back then. Dentistry wasn't so good. A lot of people had it worse. But a lot of things were better. I miss some of those things. For me, that's part of it, too.

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Keith

"...becomes just a bunch of us older geezers..."




whippersnapper.


GF

I have no problem complaining about stuff. I'm old and I've earned that right. I call a spade a spade. Just today I hammered S&W because some idiot on their customer service decided to tell our poster here to shoot black powder loads in his .32-20. Last week we had a similar issue with one of our posters being told not to shoot +P ammo in a model marked revolver. Those fools can't even get their own "communist party line" straight 2 days in a row.

Giving anyone, anyplace a pass for stupidity just insures more of the same. I've never been one to sugar coat things. My wife would call it tactful. I fail to see the purpose, when anyone screws up, they should hear about it. I'm willing to guess we're the most dedicated buyers they've got, but they're unwilling to listen or get their house in order.

I do buy "kind of new" S&Ws. When they produce something I really like, I generally buy one or two of them. When I've got one and they discontinue it for some reason, I start looking on the used market. I'm certainly not buying something I don't want to help them continue their misguided ways.

An even worse example is they're still located in one of the most anti-gun states. I'm guessing their phone answers are local to them and have very little knowledge of the guns and have no way of learning, nor incentive to do so. Maybe the same goes for those making some of the foolish decisions. We know they made some horrible ones back when they looked like an anti-gun company owned by an anti-gun country. Companies, not just gun companies, need to coddle and massage their customers, not offend them.

When the company that produced my Jeep messed up, I didn't buy one for about 12 years. When they corrected some of their mistakes, I bought again. When they produced a star, I even bought 2 of them over a couple of years. I didn't hesitate to complain loudly and bitterly when something was done wrong, nor do I hesitate to speak glowingly when they do something right. Now its been 7 years since I've bought one, and while willing to buy a new one, I've discovered they aren't making any in a color I would even park in my drive. So when a salesman called the other day, trying to induce me to come visit him, he got both barrels, and the advice to have him call his company and mend their ways.

At the present time there isn't a single gun made by S&W that I want to own. Not a single one (except for ones I already own one or two of.) I assure you they don't produce a semi-auto that I'd have. Its my money and I know how to vote with my feet, and billfold. They won't listen, so I very freely punish them and talk about it. And I own more guns than most people (my wife would suggest more than is healthy for a person to own!)

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Dick Burg

Well said rburg. I've purchased over 50 S&W handguns over the last decade. The current company calling itself S&W didn't get one dime.

Like rburg, they don't currently produce a firearm I would own. Some of us consider S&W to have already gone out of business....around eleven years ago. Regards 18DAI

I think you're right! I guess I lived kind of a sheltered life. When I first came to this forum, to say I was astonished at how many of the folks here are so much more expert at running S&W than the folks doing it would have been a fantastic understatement. This is not meant to take up for poor quality when it surfaces - and it does. It always has. As long as I have owned S&W revolvers there have been quality problems. People regularly get dumb ideas and do dumb things. And in my experience, the service department as ALWAYS been erratic. But really, I wonder how many of the outspoken critics have even the slightest idea what S&W is up against in trying to get product out the door that would meet their desired criteria, let alone making enough money in the process to stay in business year after year?

As a young fellow, when I had scrimped and saved enough money to buy my own, first 44 Magnum (a three-screw gun), I was thrilled to finally receive it. Imagine my surprise when the very first thing I was told by my Dad's older friends was what an awful junker it was compared to their older 4- and 5-screw guns; how every change S&W had made cheapened the gun and made it inferior. It would have been nice if just one of them had complimented me on what was (for me) a momentous purchase, or at least on my interest to make that purchase. But, no. Today, that process seems to continue... amplified by the internet.

It's not a perfect world by any means, but, as far as I am concerned, it's a better world with S&W's doors open, rather than closed. And, incidentally, in spite of what I was told, my 3-screw 44 Magnum is still around - doing its job just as well as ever.

My next purchase will be a revolver for sure with it being the model 627 to be exact. I have 4 semi-auto's as well with 2 of them being one older Smith and one newer one. I have no fear of buying from this company if they keep producing anything like the quality I already have which has been excellent on both counts. I have had more trouble with other brands then I have ever had with any Smith product and have been shooting over 40 years. Occasionally things happen but my Smiths have been darn good to me and my older one is from the 60's.

Great post

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Sure you did

Not if I find it first.

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Sure you did

I have limited funds and a limited "collection" which consists entirely of shooters, since I can't afford to buy a gun and not use it. When I do buy, I buy out of nostalgia, and the older Smith's just bring with them reminders of styling and fit and performance that speak to my "inner whatever" and makes it smile. Hopefully some of the currently produced models will do the same for today's generations, once they get a little longer in the tooth and seek some of their joy in the reminiscence as well as the actual function of the weapon. I personally have never owned a poorly made S&W so I can't address the problems that some have had, other than to say it brings a tinge of sadness to read about them, and pleases me when I read that S&W's CS has taken care of them.

As far as the younger shooters go, my 16yo daughter (I started late) has recently expressed an interest in learning about the shooting sport. This brings my heart much gladness, as I feared I had scared her off with my enthusiasm to have her take part in my noisy, scary hobby by insisting she at least shoot a .40 semi that I owned at one time, without recognizing that it was something she really didn't want to do. The recoil and the noise soured her on the sport for far too many years, and I recommend patience heartily, when dealing with youngsters who honestly aren't ready to take part in our obsession with us. As much as we parents crave our youngsters participation in the things that we love. Anyway, a few weeks ago she approached me about learning to shoot and this time I did it right. The "big" bores stayed home, and out came the Henry .22 rifle and the pre-18 revolver and a brush up on all the safety that goes with them. She had a blast! and worked her way most of the way through a 525 bulk pack of ammo, mostly shooting the pre-18 and being darned accurate with it to boot! The next week I exposed her to a semi-auto .22, she fired a couple magazines through it and spurned it for the .22 combat magnum for the rest of the afternoon, commenting that she just liked the revolver better. I'm a happy dad, and it looks like there's at least one new revolver lover in the fold. When and if she decides she wants a handgun of her own, perhaps she'll be looking at the latest S&W revolver offerings rather than nondescript black plastic blasters, or her dad's "antique" dinosaurs. I couldn't be more pleased either way.

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Tacticool?...NOT!

l buy used guns and cars. l think the new car guys and new gun guys are doing just fine

My contribution to this topic is to say, like a few others that I am not interested in buying poorly made or ugly guns to keep a company in business who doesn't give a fig about my interests. And this doesn't only apply to the current S&W.

I have no use for the Series 80 Colt auto pistols or the 3rd Generation SAA. I won't own anything but a 3-screw Ruger Blackhawk and I'm not interested in their GP series of DA revolvers...talk about ugly! The Kimbers in the safe are all of the first issue - I've seen too many of their Series II guns have problems.

Getting back to the topic, the lock is not only un-necessary, it's ugly and the change to the frame contour ruins the appearance of the guns. I know a gun smith who stays pretty busy, even though he's semi-retired, fixing head space problems on Smith's with the floating firing pins, which he replaces as a matter of course.

Sorry guys, my interest and money will go to the gun shops and dealers who sell used/older revolvers. I'm to old to waste my shooting time on guns I don't like.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

That's great news dave!! Thanks. There isn't enough new guns to go around. I have to buy a new model when I see it to get it. It's gone when I come back looking for it.. Had someone not pointed out the IL to me a few years ago... I would have never known it was there... I personally thought most of the older guns that are in my price range are either beat up or seem to have issues. The ones that look good, guys like you put a price tag on em that is ridiculous in my book. I can buy 2 new revolvers that work better and shoot as good as anything you got stored away in your safe. Not to mention the new ones look great!! But it's all kewl, you got what you like and I'll get what I like.

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Jack C

I'm gonna beat ya both, I live 10 minutes from S&W!!! I'm getting the next one out... I was drooling on 3-4 of them in the show case at SW a month ago and couldn't pull the trigger... dat ain't happening again.

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Jack C

You better get out there tomorrow.

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Sure you did

I plan on going out there tomorrow morning, customer paid his $6100 bill today for his rollcage, window net and a parachute in a Honda!!! Yep... gonna be hittin a few gun stores tomorrow!!

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Jack C

This is my last post for the day... boy it's been fun... nite all

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Jack C

Well put, Sir, well put. If there were anything for me to add, it would be that no matter the problems with new production, the Revolver isn't dead. I agree, the market does trend with what Law Enforcement is carrying, but I'm seeing many younger folks opting for the more stylish lines of the revolver. Of the three or four gun stores I frequent, revolvers tend not to set in the case very long, and older production models are snapped up as fast as they hit the display cases. More and more plastic remains collecting dust. We just need to do our part to help the newer generations of shooters learn to appreciate what we've known for years.

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SFC, US Army, Retired

About 1977 I scrimped and saved and special ordered an 8 3/8ths model 27 in the presentation box. Waited almost 6 weeks for Rod and Gun Club on post to finally get it in. The barrel was canted and installed in the frame cocked about 4 degrees to the left.

These problems are not new at S&W.





The V-8 overhead valve pushrod engine is basically the same as it was 50 years ago. "They" have hung all kinds of electronic gismos on it to meet standards set by the government for emissions and economy but the basics of the engine have changed very little. The last big advancement in the car chassis was the unibody. Most cars built today use this type of construction which, again, is over 50 years old. The basic design of the car has been relatively unchanged for more than 50 years. Refinements to driver comfort/aid are progressing rapidly but a car they do not make.

NO, that's impossible.

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Sure you did

Lots of interesting, thoughtful, diverse, and yes, some angry posts in this thread. All have validity and each certainly makes a strong case from the posters point of view.

The one question that seems to be unanswered from the unhappy posters is what you want to happen with S&W. Is it the desire to have the company close if they don't, or can't, manufacture revolvers to the standards of the past? It's understandable if we've had serious negative experiences with newer guns or S&W service we wouldn't purchase firearms from that company or production era again.

Some have stated they won't or don't buy particular era revolvers and never have.. It's awfully hard to come to a dependable conclusion that isn't hearsay from others when a person hasn't owned one. Others have implied the new guns are "junk".... I find that definition, for example, a really extreme "stretch" to define any S&W handgun.

I believe I can speak for at least a few of us by wondering why the desire to be so adamant about others of us not buying the current guns. That seems strange to those of us who haven't had the problems or negative experiences some of you have had.

I would never presume to suggest to others my handgun decisions and purchases are more informed, valid or intelligent than their own, and not expect to anger the person who has come to another first hand conclusion. Likewise, I would never wish to deny another person their free decision to choose any handgun they wish for any reason they conclude.

So what do we all want to see for S&W's revolver future that doesn't require waving some magic wand on S&W's part? I really don't expect replies to the question but I do hope those who read these well thought out posts will at least think about them -- and maybe consider all the pro and con motivation of both sides when an opinion is presented ....

Thanks to everyone who took the time to comment. Makes me, and I believe many others, proud to be a member of this board!!

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Terry

First, I don't price guns. I buy what I can afford on what's called a fixed income (retirement). Second, talking about ridiculous prices means you're talking about the current offerings from Smith that go for over $1000. The only gun I have I've paid that kind of money for is my 1914 Triple Lock and I guaran-damn-tee you it's made better than any of the new S&W revolvers. Also, it doesn't set in the safe, it goes to the range and gets shot.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Terry, again another well thought out and well written post. Thanks for leaving out the hysterical theatrics that we see so often in these type threads.
People should buy what they want to buy, end of story. The constant bashing, with the same ol' tired arguments, is well-worn at best.
I don't like the IL either, but it didn't stop me from buying an awesome Smith, the 500 MAG. I'm currently looking to buy a 627PC, where else can I get an 8 shot 357 made so BEAUTIFULLY?
My 642 NO LOCK is currently being replaced because the frame cracked, with another 642. I will have zero issues putting that gun into daily use as a defensive weapon.
When a newbie comes here looking for advice with his new revolver, we shouldn't be showering him with "those things are junk" or "I don't buy anything that needs to be wound up" or "they don't make em' like they used to" or "sell the gun and get a real one" etc etc.
YMMV

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Sure you did

[QUOTE=dma1;136406650]For me, it's the lock and the two piece barrels. I don't care about MIM. QUOTE]

I agree and will add the ultra-light revolvers as another show-stopper. I have a 317 Kit Gun with the blue box weighing more than the revolver. This one is hard to shoot well in the field and it is not a revolver for a young shooter to learn the basics.

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William Iorg

That's kewl.. we all are limited by our pockets.. just in case you missed it, there is a phenomenon called inflation, it tends to affect the value of the dollar. I'll leave it at that. What we bought 40 years ago for 250 bucks, means we may pay about 1250.00 by todays standards

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Jack C

About 45 days ago I am standing at the counter of a favorite gunshop. I am .357 Magnum shopping and need a lesson in S&W revolvers.
3 revolvers lay on the glass counter. 2 new (4" & 6") 686's and a used 686 6". I spent almost 45 minutes with just those 3.

Out of the new 2 I pulled the 4" aside and then asked to see the used 686.
WOW!! What A Difference!!! After noticing how smooth the action was for a used revolver and almost half the price I asked the salesman to play with the new 4" and the used 6" and give me his expert opinion. Remember HALF the Price....He smiled and handed me the 6" and said "that is one nice used revolver" "The action is amazing".
I bought the used 686. It is a 1986 model.

Now, I will honestly admit I was hoping that I was going to like that 4". I wanted a 4" .357 Magnum. But the trigger sucked, felt hollow and sticky. The noise of the action was...well, boring. Almost fake.
Lastly, the hole. My eyes could not get past that hole. I tried and tried not to look at it but it haunted me. Stupid! A Revolver, Any revlover is the easy to make it safe around kids. Buy a plastic covered padlock and be done. No need for a hole and key.

So, If I am going to buy a New S&W, then manufacture a revolver that is what I want, Not what the board of directors want.

I will leave out the S&W buy out of Thompson Center Firearms here in New Hampshire.

What a shame, IT'S A NEW GUN!!! What did you expect, we call it break in down here in Springfield.

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Jack C

This thread while interesting, has already passed the "my opinion is superior to your opinion" threshold.

Fact: no company is the same as it was 10,20 or 60 years ago.

Hell penny candy specialty shops don't really sell "penny" candy.

I prefer to live in the present. Heck I wish some company would come out with that hand held phaser I've been waiting for.

Everytime I'm in the grocery store I wish I could "beam" myself and the goods back home.

Move on folks. Being stuck in the past gets a bit tedious. It's why cable tv is filled with shows like pawn stars, american pickers, and hoarders.

Although I do like Mike and Frank, and Danielle (tats and all).

Dave

Turbo38gn,

The 686-1 I purchased was a display revolver that a older gentleman owned. It is guessed that no more than 300 rds found it's way out of that revolver. If and when the action begins to work like my 28-2 I will be very happy.
So, needless to say I know what break in is.

Thank you for serving.

Your welcome, it was my duty and pleasure.

I'm curious, what did you pay for that 686? I own 3 686's, both new and old. A new Lew Horton 3", a custom built 6" by a S&W employee and an old 686 4" 6 shot. I paid 725, 575 and 500 for the 3 of them, same order. I can't say as there is a lot of difference between the 3 other than the old 686 is a 6 shot and the other 2 are what is called "plus" models. In taking a quick peek at prices on GB, yep, we know and asking price and a selling price can be 2 different numbers, but none the less, a goood guide, my guess is you paid around $300 for yours.....? If so, that is gunstore robbery, were you wearing a mask?

S&W 686 357MAG 6" SS w/ Original Box and Paperwork : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

Buy and Sell Items at GunBroker.com

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Jack C

I paid $525.00. Kittery had a 4" 686-1 that they were asking $450.00. They sold it before I could look at it.

I know our States border one another and I have shopped around, made phone calls and 686's are just not that easy to find here in NH, so the money I paid I felt was fair. Given the condition of a revolver that was born in 86'-87' it was over the top IMHO.

I think I will not regret the 6" as it has one purpose. Hunting.

That's a fair price for a good shape 686. You did fine. $450 is on the lower side, usually sells immediately at that price. For $100 to 150 we can buy em brandy new. Either way works for, cause I buy and love em all....!!! I'm foaming at the mouth for a new 627PC, 629PC or 3" and a new Governor..

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Jack C

This is fun Turbo and I think we show the best of this thread. You with your New, me with my Old and in the end we belong to the same club.

I'll put my two-cents in. I suppose I am about done buying revolvers, for all practical purposes. I have more now than I will live long enough to wear out, and much worse, my past middle-age eyesight is a serious impediment to shooting with iron sights. I am pretty sure S&W knows that I have plenty of guns, and while I hope they continue to make an effort to take care of me when I need their help, I know and they know that they have to come up with products that appeal to buyers less than half my age. No amount of whining is going to change that.

I am happy to leave the direction of the company to them - they are the experts. In the past, the company (under different ownership) did make a big mistake in their dealings with certain unethical politicians. I don't know all the details of what happened and why. I just hope they avoid anything like that in the future. The other stuff is no hardship for me.

Naturally, I'd like to see any U.S. manufacturer do the best they can with quality and customer service.

refinement and improving are all about maker cheaper. it has happened to all of the gun companies. i am glad there are pleanty of people that want the new guns. you can have my share of them. part of the problems that exist in the whole industry is that gun people no longer run the companies. they are run by marketers and bean counters. look at who is buying the gun and ammo companies now, investment groups and wall street types. you have the gun companies now concentrated in very few hands and none of them are gun people.

There's no reasoning with those who think they're somehow entitled to buy what they want (that others are willing to pay present market value for) at prices from 10 to 20 years ago. (find me the guy who's happy always paying more and I'll sell him my collection)

There's no reasoning with those who don't understand why S&W 'refuses' to go back to operating and making things like they did 30 years ago, like making 'Coke' grips in house out of quality hardwoods and selling them for $29 a pop.

Having said that, we all have a right to expect that if we buy a new gun that the barrel is not cock-eyed; that we have a more than reasonable expectation that it won't lock up under recoil when we need it most; we can hope and wish that S&W might at least try to give us some indication that alternative designs might be considered to minimize the aesthetic detraction of the lock and make it reliable as possible since only the totally unrealistic imagine the lock will ever go away in this day and time. A lot of us would like to at least hope that S&W would be a bit more sympathetic and responsive to the likes and concerns of their loyal customer base who would more readily accept inevitable changes if a bit more thought and effort went into maintaining the quality and features we value as much as possible without feeling like we've been thrown under the bus and our opinions and preferences don't matter.

Only a fool would want S&W to close their doors and have that portion of our history pass into oblivion. But as someone who has been a loyal S&W customer for going on 40 years, I sometimes wonder if they (like a lot of industries today) know that a lot of the customers that kept them in business for the last 50 years feel like they're being told 'just shut up and buy what we tell you to - this is what it is these days'. Maybe there are a lot more new customers out there willing to buy what is offered and those who don't like the present direction of things are minimized enough that it won't hurt S&W's bottom line. I personally believe anyone who thinks that is short-sighted and mistaken . . .

Shrouded barrels and MIM parts are the types of things that are inevitable if the company is to remain competitive - new processes and materials and technology have to be explored and used or the folks who DO discover a way to do it WILL put them out of business. Making them the old way isn't a realistic option anymore unless you actually believe enough folks are willing to pay twice what the retail rates of the current offerings are today. Ain't gonna happen.

It's an internet discussion - everybody has an opinion. You're insulated behind your keyboard in the safety of your home or wherever you're posting, so you can be as 'forceful' and intractable as you wish. No one forces us to buy these products - it's a give and take situation and S&W and it's customers have an equal part if the company does keep going.

What do I want to see happen to S&W ? I think I've answered your question . . . .

I have to admit Smith & Wesson pistols might not be quite what they used to be,but they still make good pistols.I get tied of people bashing S&W.When S&W was making the 19's,29's and 66's in the 60's and 70's those revolvers set the standard pretty darn high.Those would be really hard to beat.Bottom lines is S&W has always been my favorite revolver and they will continue to be that.

Some of the complaints are valid but some are well, difficult to take seriously. In another thread I read "The barrel was canted at least 4 degrees off TDC." Please see below. 4 degrees is a little over 1% or 1/90th. I'll take that kind of precision every time.

Until you go to sight it in and find there is not enough adjustment in the rear sight to get you on paper much less in the X-Ring.

You have your compass, do the drawing and find out how much 4 degrees puts you off at 25 yards.

4 degrees would be out in left field, and is far from precision.

I have not ever seen any revolver that far off though. Maybe 2 degrees, and that can be fixed by a gunsmith or anyone that has a barrel wrench and a frame vise. I fixed it on my Super Blackhawk. Rear sight is perfectly centered now.

And no, I don't have OCD. I have CDO, which is just like OCD, except the letters are alphabetically arranged like they're supposed to be.