I agree with many of you guys on the pre-80's guns. My own collection is made up almost exclusively of earlier P&R guns and I have a bunch. I don't expect the following opinion is going to be very popular with some of you but that's OK.

My main concern is the constant hammering of S&W, even in subtle and passive ways, for issues that many of us have realized they will never be able to replicate again.

Do we really want to continually pound them for what we see as weakness that are probably the only economically feasible methods they can use to stay solvent?

Let's face it.... revolvers are "out of vogue" for most of the modern young purchasers. They are much more costly to produce than typical autos, even with the MIM and Goodyear type parts. Revolvers today typically don't receive the image of guns carried by the movie-land "super hero's" like they did in years gone by. I believe it's time to think seriously about the impact we're having on any future revolver sales when we turn off the new generations totally from considering buying them.

The concept of era comparison may sound good to enhance the value of our own collections, but when it becomes just a bunch of us older geezers chasing the older guns with no interest from new people I sincerely believe that will diminish the value of revolvers, including the older ones...

I think back to the mid 70's when 29-2's, 25-2's and 57's were retailing for $279. It was a time when many fully loaded cars were retailing for $4 to $5000. Today comparable cars are $40 to $50,000. If the same pass-through increases were made by S&W today, and if figuring the dollar is worth 10% of what it was, that would mean a new presentation cased, wood stocked N frame would cost us $2,729 today. All things being considered, that horrendous price would offer the old 1 year, pay shipping both ways chintzy warranty too, rather than the excellent lifetime warranty provided today....

That's about three times what a 629-6 costs new today. Is it any wonder why S&W has had to try to cut corners?

We are about to enter a huge new inflationary spiral that will dwarf anything we have seen to date. With all the political and economic pressures confronting all firearms manufacturers, I believe we should be helping all of them to survive, not tearing them down over issues that will never be the same again.... and never can be... JMHO and flame suit on...

What say you?

__________________
Terry

Terry, I'm on your side with this and you have stated your position very clearly. Chalk one up for the positive! Thanks, Bob

well after the old ones run out i guess we will all look harder at the new ones, maybe its my age i just like the looks of the older smiths?i cant realy say the new ones are bad never owned one, but if you think about it colt priced there way right out of the revolver line! i cut my teeth on wheel guns its in my blood i can see the younger generation is moving to the autos there may come a time when the demand for revolvers drops out of sight? our kids and grandkids way have little or no intrest in our old out of date smiths, and that is sad.

__________________
WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

What you say makes sense, but it does little to make me think I should run out and buy a current S&W revolver.

Instead, it makes me want to mortgage my house to buy all the classic LNIB S&Ws I can find. Those are the ones worth thousands in today's dollars because it would cost that much in labor and skill to replicate the old craftsmanship.

It will never cost $3000 to have a machine stuff MIM parts crookedly into an unpolished frame. Or if it does, I won't be paying it.

Personally I have swayed a handful of folks into revolver purchases in the past year, some of those new and mostly due to the problems associated with the pocket CCW's.

And I can't afford some of the new Smith's, but find older one's I want more, for less.

And yes there is less interest in the revolver overall. Some other lesser forums I look at easily have triple the viewers on the semi-auto page than the revolver side. The clock tickith away. Look at our own forums here... folks vote by where they are, so you may not lose all hope. Just go look at the current viewers on the various forums here.

The really old stuff - 97
This forum - 161
New Revolvers - 387
Semi's - 392

For me, it's the lock and the two piece barrels. I don't care about MIM. When any newbie asks, I steer them to a stainless S&W revolver, more often than not a .357, starting out with .38 special ammo. Autos can come later. As far as the younger generation, my 17 yr. old son badgered the you know what out of me until I bought him a Ruger New Vaquero since I wouldn't buy him a SAA, his first choice, which was too expensive for me. He has lots of choices in the safe; loves lever guns, revolvers, and semi-autos. Guess they're not all tacticool.... I have hope for the future.

Terry: You make some good points. In particular, you hit the nail of the head in terms of the coolness factor of revolvers among young shooters. A new shooter can buy some pretty good new semis for less than $600, but many new S&W revolvers are well over that. So not only is the revolver less cool -- it's a lot more expensive.

And though many of us could easily afford the new revolvers, the shooters among us often opt for used ones or old cop trade-ins -- why spend the extra bucks if we don't have to? But many young shooters shy away from "used" guns, just because they may not know how hardy these revolvers are. So, if they buy one, they buy new and shell out some big bucks (for young people).

That being the case, I suppose we should emphasize that even if there are some quality issues, that S&W will take care of them.

Young people will most likely be receptive to that message since a lot of companies have adopted the business model of putting much of their quality assurance dollars into their warranty programs. This is what they are used to (us old guys are from a different world).

You bring up some good points. I went to the CPI inflation calculator. I used $279 in 1975 and converted it to 2012 dollars. It has the same buying power as $1175 does today. So, I think your numbers are a bit off, but your point is still valid. Smith handguns have gotten relatively less expensive in the last 37one years. Going back the other way, an $800 Smith today should have cost $190 in 1975.

__________________
Proud anachronism

I agree 100%...........IF we or the new buyers don't buy their product they will eventually go out of business or mfg. other products that will sell.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

+1 here. I have no complaints with the latest S&W products, other than I wish they wouldn't have added the unneeded locks. But they still look good and shoot as well as the old ones.

I don't buy them because of the locks, with the exception of the scandium offerings, which are my beaters, with the locks defeated.

I agree and along the same lines I'll never understand why some have an absolute hatred of brand x because it isn't brand Y. I can understand having a preference but some don't seem to be content until brand x is out of business.

S&W still makes good guns and it's amazing what opening your eyes and inspecting before buying will do for you. Crooked barrels, sights etc can be easily spotted and they are rare, despite what some insinuate.

I have both old and new S&W revolvers, the old ones are a little smoother, so is a original Cobra automobile, but you can't buy either one new anymore, period, end of story. The new ones are still good revolvers, I've bought 6-8 new ones in the last little while, had to send one back for a timing issue, it was back in a little over the week. I have had the good sense not to buy one or two that failed inspection, again, common sense.

It amazes me that people think everyone wants to pay 4-5k for a registered magnum or some other exorbitantly priced old Smith. Some buy guns to shoot, as well as make some safe queens. To each his own, but the continual bashing of the new ones gets old, new guns allow them to be carried and shot regularly, I can't imagine treating a rare classic Smith that way.

Most of the whining I've seen in here seemed to be from people who didn't bother to inspect before they bought, bought online and got a lump(not Smith's issue), or from guys talking about how great Glocks are in the same post. There are/were some issues that are legitimate, but I don't hear much about how it was resolved, just the complaint.....

Bottom line is, this is a Smith forum, if you don't like them, why are you here? (not pointed at anyone in particular).

Like it or not auto loaders have been and will continue to be the wave of the future in handguns. I like many S&W fan have the resources to own most but not all of the revolvers we want; for me the revolvers I wish to spend my money on are the classic Smith and Wesson versions, not that these are always better,they are though the revolvers many of us grew up with and have owned for years. If and only if I were in the market for a new revolver a Smith and Wesson product would be my first choice.
As it's been 30 + years since I have purchased a new Smith and Wesson product I will not make any comments good or bad about the quality of Smith and Wesson's current offerings.

This is a very flawed arguement, let me elaborate:

1. Comparing cars to guns. Cars need constant R&D. Revolvers need very little R&D. For all intents and purposes, the basic revolver designs of S&W which were developed in the 10's - 30's. Aside from a few minor things, the designs would be relevant and useful today. You cant say the same thing about a car.

2. S&W revolvers should be what the market calls a "cash cow". They should really cost much less to produce than something like a modern semiautomatic. Especially in the day of CNC milling.

3. Who cares about modern handgun trends, there will always be a market for quality made revolvers, at least unless S&W just starts pushing out complete trash. I see some basic things posted here all the time like canted barrels, locks that dont work, silly things like internal firing pin being introduced for nothing but to complicate design, inferior MIM parts, etc

The point on the car was regarding attention to detail, more hands on work vs automation etc in the past, not innovation. You missed the point entirely.

There are about a dozen people whose posts I always stop to read here. Allen-Frame, SmithNut, Doc44, Toroflow, Iggy, SebagoSon, 18DAI to name a few and I'm leaving out some because I'm tired. TDC, you are on that list. You always give good, honest opinions and take the time to help out the new guys. And your photos are fantastic.

No flames here - you make good points but enough kissing up.

Statistically, I think you will see about 1000 to 1 good comments to bad on the forum. Unfortunately, the negative comments attract attention and stay on top.

Some guys are constructive and seeking answers and some are just trying to ruffle feathers.

I will disagree a little on the possibility of revolvers fading away. I'm 35. I grew up with Miami Vice and Lethal Weapon. I lusted for Mel's Beretta, not Danny's revolver (not going to chance getting the model wrong). I recently sold my 92 and am getting ready to let go of my 92 compact. I average about 1 gun per month. The last 20 or so I've brought in have been wheel guns.

Revolvers will always be popular for their reliability and mechanical beauty - even for us "younger" buyers.

Let em talk and let em buy Glocks. Smith fans are killing my wallet

I agree SR. I think you made a good comparison.

Thank you Sir.

TDC,
Very well written. Thanks for the admonishment. Sometimes I need a little sense knocked into me

__________________
John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Nonsense on all three counts.

One thing I see is a lot of people complaining about S&W changing how they put their revolvers together and claiming that it's a degradation.

For example all the claims that MIM is inferior when there is ZERO evidence that MIM is at all inferior to the older Forged parts. Fact is the S&W's MIM parts have shown they are every bit as durable as forged and with the high carbide content inherent with the MIM process the sear surfaces will likely be much more wear resistant than those on a Forged part.

Then there is the complaint about the change to the internal firing pin. Simple truth is that the old style firing pin was always somewhat fragile and needed to be replaced somewhat frequently.

Then there is the segment who claimed that the tensioned barrel was purely a cost cutting move. In spite of the fact that they have proven to be much more accurate in both S&W and Dan Wesson revolvers.

As for there not being any R&D in a revolver, that is only the case when your building a model 10 to the original 1899 design. All those changes that have taken place over the years are the direct result of R&D. So are all the new models that come out from time to time.

As for all the quality complaints we see, I'm quite certain that there were cockeyed barrels, huge B/C gaps, and hammers rubbing throughout the history of S&W revolvers. The simple truth is that people make mistakes and these deficits are the result of those mistakes. The only difference is that all those antiques have already had those faults fixed many years ago when there wasn't any internet to post complaints to.

This thread needs to run in the 80 to current forum, they didn't get the memo.

We all want them they way they were. Things change and good and bad comes from it. I agree with quite a bit of what was said. Unfortunately, most of us are too busy living day to day to be worrying about the future. Seems like some people somewhere want it to be that way as it isn't in our best interest for the long term. We all need to pay attention and do what we can when we can for our own existence, as gun enthusiasts or just plain American citizens. I can only add that I love my Smiths. Peace.........

__________________
Go big or stay home

^^^ This...


^^^And this...

Lots of well thought out, informed and intelligent comments here! I believe we can say we're all on much the same wave length. We're all entitled to our own opinions and perceptions. It's how we learn and how others might learn from us.

Avery11, what can I say.... You've placed me with some of the most respected and knowledgeable members of this board and that's a status I haven't yet earned.... Thanks for your generous comments. I hope my participation here will live up to your kind words...

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this important topic. I hope the folks at S&W recognize they have an outpouring of support from many of us (though some may be a tad bit "guarded"). I also hope some others will give us some of their thoughts, too....

__________________
Terry

Actually, I see a bit of a resurgence in interest as well as purchase with lots of the younger crowd and revolvers these days. Very few are like many of us and aspire to own a safe full of nice wheelguns, but one or two, definitely. Autos have taken over for more serious uses, certainly, but when I haul one of my older S&Ws to the Academy range, I get plenty of interest and usually an offer or two to buy from the younger cops. Ditto for the very infrequent trips to public ranges or private clubs, and I doubt there has ever been the interest / sales for the little J frame snubs as either BUGs or 'leave at home with the wife' guns we see today.

I tend to be more optimistic about the revolver's future, and I am doing my part by getting my grandsons into revolvers first before I introduce them to the siren song of the 1911 and the plastic hi cap blasters.

__________________
Run Fast, Bite Hard!

One of my friends has a 22-4 Thunder Ranch, it compares pretty well to my 28-2.

__________________
dd884
JMHO-YMMV

well thought out and presented terry...i have a nice collection of oldies however i do have some of the new models as well...my son (age 26) has been collecting since he was 21...he has far more wheel guns then auto's....just is just some things that a revolver will be best suited for....hunting is but one!

__________________
SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

Kudos, Terry. Your thoughts mirror my own, although I didn't get started buying revolvers until the '80's. Seems like many here can't accept that times change, and for a business trying to make money, manufacturing has to be as efficient as possible. I have no beef with the new guns, but I don't have any post-2000 models myself, and it does seem like there are some QC issues with some of the models. As has been pointed out, that is not really anything new, but the amplification provided by the internet may make it seem worse than it is.

And, on the cool factor: I see military and LE guys at the range I go to, and I am shocked when they say they have never, repeat NEVER, fired a revolver. I let them try mine, and they are always impressed with the accuracy. Go figure.... Don't know that I've made any converts, but I feel like I'm making headway

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

This pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject as well.
I've not bought any "new" S&W products so you won't hear me bad mouthing them. However, if S&W does not improve the reliability/quality issues alot of people seem to be having why should they stay in business? History has shown that the market/paying customer will determine if you have a product worth buying. Any amount of customer service won't
help your business if you continue to crank out an inferior product. I'll continue to buy the pre-lock, pre-1980 guns for the most part. If my grandkids do not want them when i'm unable to shoot or enjoy them any longer so be it. Revolvers have been around for how many years now? I don't see the end in any foreseable future. As long as movies are made and watched, and as long as there are those of us who remember, there will be those who will want them.


chuck

__________________
They hold no Quarter

I ride BMW motorcycles and have for quite a few years. I would love to buy a brand new vintage "Airhead" BMW from the 1950's or 60's, but guess what? They don't make them anymore, quite likely for the same reason Smith & Wesson isn't making no-dash N-frames. The "market" for any product dictates what gets made, because if the manufacturer is paying attention and responding to the desires of their customers they are much more likely to make things that sell and keep them in business.
I agree "Beating the Dead Horse" with Smith & Wesson is not only non-productive, they are human beings and don't like being hammered on by people who resist change when change is the only reasonable alternative if one wants to stay in business.
Smith & Wesson has always been a top tier company in my view, and while I happen to like the older revolvers, as many of us do, I recognize they have to move on to satisfy the market they have, not the one they may wish they have. While I mostly buy P&R revolvers, I buy S&W's newer models when they fit my needs. I absolutely love the 5" barrel Model 29 Classic with rubber grips that I own. It is as accurate as any of my earlier dated 29's and my perception is that is shoots "softer" as well. So what's not to like?
I worked as a Marketing Representative for IBM in the early 80's, and I was there when the predecessors of the PC I'm using right now, were the "State of the Art" for that time. Anybody want to insist IBM go back to making those old boat anchors, or do you prefer what you are using now? I think not.
Let's enjoy what we've got, enjoy the new models that suit our needs, and support the company that's brought such fun and enjoyment into our shooting lives.

Sir, FWIW, I buy things based on my needs, not those of the manufacturer.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

__________________
Wishin' don't make it so.

beemerrider has summed up the primary issue better than I ever could.... Lots or clear and concise posts in both his and earlier threads that make me proud to be a member.

I believe we need to try to temper the "family feud" between the old guard S&W shooter/collectors and the new and accept and respect everyone's choices and preferences without the debates becoming personal. The common "mine is better than yours" analogy always seems to inflame both sides...

We've seen great companies with fine handguns like Colt and Dan Wesson dissolve in the past. Can anyone imagine what the current handgun world would be like without Smith & Wesson in it? I can and I fear some would love to see that happen.

Just sayin'

__________________
Terry

I only own semis, but have been considering looking into SW revolvers for my next purchase. This thread makes me want a revolver right now. There are plenty of problems with semis I have learned to fix them myself, with plenty of help from this forum and other links. It occurs to me that when buying older guns, only the non-flawed have survived.

__________________
Hold on. SWAT's at my door.

I'm like alot of the guys on here.It's not that I don't like the new smiths,but I like the hunt,look's and prices of the older smith's better.I like the grips,boxes,tool's,even the vapor paper alot more.
My tastes have changed,but have settled in on smith 22 cal.,and j-frames,and of course the k-frame 22's.............the post's here have been great and I'm happy to be a part of this forum,It's always a learning experience.

If the manufacturer doesn't make what the customer wants, they will eventually go out of business. Look at the Chevy Volt, no one wants them, production has been stopped.

I bought my first new Smith & Wesson revolver in 1975. Since then, I have had many and hope to have been many more. I refuse to buy one that has the lock, that's my choice and I have my reasons for this.

Junk is Junk. It's not the same company anymore. If you want to buy overpriced guns that break or parts fall off, be my guest. I'll stick with the old stock.

__________________
Loyalty Above All.. but Honor

I have a 28-2 from '76; also a Ruger Service Six from that same year. The workmanship (fit and finish) on both is superior to current offerings from each company. That said, I have several new Rugers and about a dozen late model Smiths.

I had only 2 issues, a bad cylinder on a JM 625 and Smith replaced it no questions asked in a couple of weeks. I have no complaints with their service. I also had a short FP on a 329NG which I replaced myself.

I just bought a pair of 500's, 8.375" and 4" barrels. They are well made and solid. I enjoy my revolvers more than most of my autos.

I am happy with the products produced today.

I am getting on in years and remember fondly the old guns from the 70's and on and I too abhor the lock and the frame styling changes that resulted. As such those models do not appeal to me. I do however often advocate for some newer shooters to look at the current offerings and have had several purchase revolvers for sport or personal defense. My older models meet my needs and I am not looking for any more at present. Still recommend the brand however even with the lock.

As a side note...over the years I have seen a lot of change in the various tools and toys I collect. I miss some of them but realize I am a lot better off today than yesterday. As much as I love my old Leica M2, Pentax Spotmatic and Nikon Ftn cameras the Canon EOS 5D MarkII has them beat in spades both in quality, capability and being way too expensive. That is progress I guess.

__________________
Protected by Smith and Wesson.

I've not been a member of this forum long. I'm just a very small time collector and only shooter grade guns. I love reading all the posts both positive and negative. I've learned so much from all the guys on this forum. I'm not against MIM parts as they have proved to be reliable for years. I don't think CNC is a bad word. I've been a toolmaker for over 35 years and have seen the buisness of cutting metal change almost exclusively to the use of CNC. If you want to stay in the buisness you best be looking at CNC. I know that CNC machines can be MORE accurate than conventional machines. Nostalgia is great as long as you are willing to pay for it. I keep hearing that used guns are less expensive than new ones but that is not always true,at least were I live.
The newest gun I own is a 442 no lock I bought last year and I couldn't be more pleased with it as far as fit, finish and function. The rest of my meager collection are older guns. I have a crooked barrel on a 66 no dash. That gun was made back in what 1977? I have a 27-2 that tends to lock up at times. Even with the light loads I reload for it. That gun was made in the 70's? I'm not unhappy with either gun and will eventually fix them. Old guns break too. Old guns have quality isuues too.
On the same token I think it's important that people get to comment on the issues of quality or lack "there of" of the present day S&W. There are some who seem to get angry at these people and even call their integrity into question. People should have the expectation that a product they purchase should be made correctly. Especially products that you pay a premium for and a company that is as respected as S&W.
I suppose it's just a matter of time before we all end up buying the newer guns. The older ones will eventually all be more expensive than new and as more people collect them they will become more rare. I love the old ones but will not discount ever owning the newer ones. On the same token I will not blindly continue to support a company that will not keep the quality of it's product to traditionally higher standards. It's great that S&W has a fantastic warranty but it would be greater if the design flaws and workmanship were kept to a minimum.

I've had older S&W revolvers with hammers rubbing. I've not ever had one with a "cocked" barrel. I've had one with a almost oversized B/C gap.

__________________
<><

HEY!!
Aren't we still "Hammering" GLOCKS??

Someone said, loosely, " market demand dictates production" The market in numbers is in LE. LE has gone to autos, won't see too many police trade-in revolvers in the future.There is a real possiblity that S&W could just stop making revolvers. They are more expensive to make, and if demand falls off, well, why keep making them? I completely agree on the car comparison, Smith has done a good job of combining new production methods with their traditional design which helps keep retail price reasonable. Old guys (some) seem to like old stuff made in the old days. I have olds Smiths and new Smiths, like them both. Don't like the lock and don't like the simple mistakes Smith lets through their quality control, picture attached of brand new 686 off center barrel that I now have to send back. Just bad business practice. Problems like this might be due to demand right now, but still. Another thought for all you collectors? How much of the price increase is driven by old guys buying all the guns they wish they had when they were young? Kinda like old guys going to Barrett Jackson, getting a little tipsy and plunking down $500,000 for a Cobra. Will young guys, when they get older want a $500,000 Cobra, don't think so. How many young guys, when they get older will want old Smiths to relive there youth. Their youth was in semi autos, black guns etc. The current spike in Smith prices could be a bulge in the market driven by aging boomers with $. I buy Smiths because I really like them, the design, history, quality, "well made things" My son could care less. Maybe when he gets older that will change, don't know. Where will your collection go?

Attached Images

686 008.jpg (42.2 KB, 100 views)

While it's somewhat informative to hear others opinions on the current state of S&W, threads like this are largely just interesting to read but contain little that will sway people.

After all opinions are like..... (including mine) everyone has one. Although I was glad to hear that "junk is junk". Thanks. I wouldn't have known that except for this thread. And it's not the same company it once was? What company is? The auto companies? Having been born and raised in Detroit I can tell you that isn't true.

Revolvers are making a little comeback in the small lightweight ccw market. Other than that, most gun stores have showcases full of semis and half a showcase with current snub nose revolvers. Just the way things are.

I have been shooting handguns since the early 1970s and have never owned a gun that was perfect in every way. I have never owned a semi auto that didn't malfunction (fail to eject, jam)at least once. Actually I have a sig p220 45 that has never failed with factory ammo but has hiccupped with reloads.

I have a few older revolvers and a few newer ones. They all have a purpose. This forum caters to the true believers. The casual gun owner is never going to pay $10,000 for an example of a registered magnum. Having said that, time marches on, someday this forum won't be around and most of won't either and our relatives will have a hard time selling dad's or grandpa's "rare" guns.

Buy what you like old or new and enjoy. Nothing is forever.

Dave

All guns have a place in the market place, some are a classic style others are just the equivelent of a hammer, they do the job that has to be done. I carried a custom commander for 20+ years. I referred to Glocks as tupperware wonders, even though I went through classes with L.E. officers and Glocks and Sigs. The Sig guys and myself cleaned daily
the Glo people were spurratic to say the least. I had one stove-pipe in 1000 rounds, cleared immedialy and moved on. Neve saw a glock jam in class.
When I was forced to have back disc replacement surgery. Went to a tricked out Glock 27. When I carry it I don't feel naked the gun has no safety to flip the wrong way.
My back is now better and can go back to my older guns in the right holster.
I still don't love Tupperware but it filled a spot in my life after all I live in an area where 911 calls can take 15 minutes or more for response.

Good points all, nice job Terry. I have Smiths from the 50's to the present. My 'best' examples are the 1953 pre-15 .38 Special, and my recent 625-8PC .45ACP vintage 2012. Both ends of the spectrum. Having said that, I'm not getting rid of any of them, love them all like children with separate personalities. When I say 'best,' I'm referring to fit and finish, tolerances, and quality of construction. My new 625 is a piece of art. Beautiful to shoot and hold, wonderful design. It shoots 10's, that's what's important to me...and it looks good doing it each and every time I pull the trigger. Not a perfect world though - what initially irritated me upon opening the box was the cable lock 'made in China.' However, after mulling over the nasty note I was going to send back to Smith w/ cable enclosed, I came to the realization that this was a business decision by Smith driven by legal and economic realities. Still don't like it, but I'm not going to bash Smith, nor do something to cause gun prices to go up because they need to pay more to meet this compliance requirement. Who knows, maybe someone sitting around the board table say's 'sure we'll comply....will buy the cheapest, crappiest lock we can find...stay in compliance, not raise prices...customers aren't going to use it anyway.' This is a slippery slope. There are other battles I will fight

Being a traditional, practical kind of guy, I resisted for the longest time any of the new polymer guns or any finish other than a deep, luster blue. However, the reality is there are practical advantages to these 'advances.' My carry guns are now polymer with Robar type finishes. They go bang every time, beautiful designs, wonderfully engineered, functional; and are perfectly comprised of materials designed to live in a closed, sweaty environment without adverse effect and remain reliable.

One last point on the relevancy of Revolvers and their future. When selecting guns for my wife and daughter, both of them chose Revolvers for there simplicity, reliability, and their intuitive firing operation. They could have had anything they wanted, it was entirely their decision

My collection ranges from a 1917 to post-war HDs to P&Rs to 2 of the latest models with locks. I love em all! Yeah, S&W couldn't produce a 5 shot 357 fully loaded revolver at 15 oz. for pocket carry in 1972.

__________________
Randy
Provenance nerd

I may as well throw my thoughts in here since I have done a bit of complaining in the past about S&W QC. I too like the older models but I would have no problem at all buying a new Smith in a caliber I want that wasn't made many years ago. I recently bought a brand new 500 magnum with a 6 1/2" barrel that operates extremely well. I inspected this gun in my FFL's shop closely before buying it and I couldn't find anything wrong with it. Conversely, if I wanted a nice model 686 or another model 29, I'd definitely go for an older pre-lock model because I just happen to like that era revolver better.

That said, I don't believe there is a manufacturer out there today that produces a better revolver than S&W. In my mind, I try to compare S&W (or any company) to the company / field I work in - a hospital. All hospitals today have become "competing companies" where we all expect the best of care. Guess what? With all the cuts made to lower cost and maintain market viability, mistakes, often big mistakes with dreadful consequences, happen all the time.

Rock on S&W - I think you're doing the best possible job!

Agreed, change is necessary to be competitive.

However, change can be incorporated that has higher positive impact on the company than what has happened to S&W. For instance, Ruger. They added an internal lock with little or no impact on function or appearance.

I'm not going to go on about how great Ruger is, they're not; but they have managed to increase their marketshare and without diminishing percieved quality and/or company reputation.