41 Mag, One caliber I do not have. What is the "draw" to this gun? It seems this model was not made for very long. The caliber may be good for hunting (flatter shooting) but in a fixed sight gun what does it have over a 44 Special or 44 Mag?

Asking as I saw one today for the first time. I reload so ammo is not an issue.

Guess I am curious if they are a desirable gun?

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Still Running Against the Wind

Here is mine. The draw is these are no longer made, so everybody wants one, LOL!! I wanted one for years because it looks like a model 10 on steroids. I got this in late 2008, intending to give it to my father-in-law to carry around the house in the mountains, but he passed away shortly after I got it. These guns are a handful to shoot with the standard stocks and hot loads. I gave $550.00 for mine way back then and am pleased.

There is kind of a cult following on this gun. Those of us who have carried the ol beater and a new generation that likes fixed sight magnums.

Take a gander at this thread to give an insight into the old M&P

The 'unofficial' 58 Club

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Eccentric old coot

WNo offense, but with almost 7,500 posts here you certainly don't seem to have been living under a rock. That subject is covered quite often by numerous folks in various threads many times.

It's a "cult" caliber and the 58 is kind of a 'cult' gun. Some will argue it's virtues and some scratch their heads at appeal of the 58.

The strong points of the cartridge is it is a bit flatter shooting than the 44 and supposedly it recoils less, but in comparable performing loads you couldn't prove it by me. On the down side, it's more of a handloader's cartridge than the 44 and even at that the bullet selection is not as broad.

The strong points of the 58 ? It's an N frame S&W ! And some would opine the old saw "everything you need and nothing you don't" while others would argue it was a failure in the market place, too big, kicks too hard for small cops & cop-ettes, and in general is an illegitimate child.

Only my opinion, but I think it does what it was designed for pretty well, even though a model 29 so configured would have done the same. It was intended to be a hip holster carried duty gun of serious power for a police officer designed to be used in the accepted 'gun fight' distances of the day. But the meager factory load offerings at it's inception were too much for many to handle comfortably so it didn't last in that role.

Great hunting cartridge, but, I could just as easily taken everything I've put in the pot with a .41 with a .44.

Had the 58 been offered as a .41 special ( or a 44 special for that matter ) it may have been more accepted. Who knows ? But it was born during the 'magnumizing' of the times and by the time the ammo technology/savvy caught up the po-leece had moved on to semi-autos. We saw what happened when the 10mm was introduced much the same way, except in that case the 40 S&W was the resulting compromise and I don't think many could argue that 'downsizing' was not a success.

YMMV

Leave it to me to retire my .41 mag for a 10mm. It was the closest thing I could find in a pistol to a .41 mag at the time.
I just never get anything right.

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Eccentric old coot

There's something elemental about a big-bore fixed sight N-Frame.
As originally done, that is.
I had a short and troubled dalliance with one of the "new" 21-4s.
Agree that a model 57 equivalent in 44 Special would have been the perfect marriage of gun and caliber.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

I do not reload, so my M57 and M58 seldom, if ever, get range time. As for the M58, it just did not sell well at all. NFrameFred described the M58 and the situation very well. Me, I just like the "clean" look of a N frame with fixed sights. Plus, I like mine because not everyone has one that is nickel. Yeah I know, sad commentary about me.

I've owned 2 58's (a 57, a Ruger NMBH and a 12" contender barrel). traded them of for something else along the way. Wish they'd have made the 58 a .45......

Don't feel bad, Chip - I let go of my 10MM 1911 years ago and got completely out of the .41 too, before I got 'pulled back in' via a fortuitous trade on the first 58, and now there's three .41's in the safe . . . . but still no 10mm ( can't find a 'deal' on one ). I never was known for exactly doing the right thing at the right time myself . . . .

I really like the heavy bbl, N frame, fxd sight config. I would own one in every caliber, if it weren't cost prohibitive (especially 45's). I've only seen one model 520, couple years ago for $750...wish I bought it.

Advantages over 44...hmmm...not really. I actually load my M58 with the same 7.5 grains unique as my 44 spl, only a slightly lighter lead swc bullet.

I probably wouldn't enjoy it as much if I were launching max load JHPs from it.

Retired police love this gun.
It was the ultimate highway patrolman's revolver.

The .41 is better than the .44 unless you live in Alaska.

Good Questions....I own a model 58, I like it , it's my favorite handgun and I don't know why. maybe because it looks good, chambered in a cal. that begins with 4 ( big bores and N frames are just COOL ), no sights to get knocked out of alignment. I reload so I have worked up a cast bullet load at 850 to 900 fps that shoots to point of aim and we have fun at the range.

And I'm the kind of guy that roots for the underdog and likes redheaded stepchildren...model 58's have been compared to these. Everybody and thier brother has/ wants a model 29 in 44 mag. and I like to be different. I feel good with it on the nightstand when I sleep.

It may not be practical or a commerical success but I'm not getting rid of mine any time soon.

Die hard 58/41mag fan
gary

I agree!! Should have been built in .45 ACP. I have a 57 no dash 8 3/8"and a 1977 58 both nickel. The long tube is much better as a shooter as to accurate and lighter recoil.


Ischia

Ischia

I could never tell the difference between recoil of a .44Mag and a .41 Mag in the top factory loads.The .41 Mag in the "mid-range" load was so close to the hand loaded .44Spl & .45 ACP/AR at 950-1000 fps. that I couldn't tell the difference there either, recoil wise.What made me get away from the .41Mag. was the day at the range that I had somehow mixed in a couple of .41s with .44Mags, the .41s slipped into the chambers too easily[ I believe this was a case of "gun shop comparison"where the wrong rounds were inserted in the wrong boxes] and,thank God,I caught it before firing.[probably no problem but a split case or two] but at the time,I had several .44 Mags and one Mod. 58,.41 Mag. I wish I had the .45ACP barrels and cylinders then that I have now. I would have built a fixed sight .45 ACP/AR! Either way, you won't be undergunned with a .41 Mag and appreciation in value, in the years to come may be considerable. Nick

I own a .41 and 10mm...so I'll help you paddle the boat.

It was noted that had the M58 been made in a 41 Special round or even the 44 special, it made have fared better. Please remember that in 1964 when the M58 was introduced, one could get the m21 M&P 44 special as they languished on the shelfs or even better a 4" M24 with adjustable sights or a special order M25 in 45 Colt if a big bore N frame service handgun was wanted. The M58 was an attempt by S&W to breath some life into the N frame line with a new caliber. A 357 M20 would have fared better at the time. In the mid 60's, the m15 and M19 were ruling the roost for police revolvers, a position they held until the switch to auto loaders. With that said, I love the 41 Magnum as a big bore do it all round. Bob!

You hit on one of the two keys points, .41 is the best revolver SD caliber, it was marketed and accepted to be the ultimate police load. The load choices were a 210 grain SWC and later a 200 HP, which were mild loads.

The second thing is in today's SD loads it comes in at a MVE of 700-800 lbs, whereas a .44 is 1100-1200, so there is a considerable difference in recoil. Although, I will say my 57MG due to the lighter frame is as strong in recoil as my 4" M29. However, a 58 does kick lighter than a M29 etc.

The .41 is cool, if for no other reason I have yet to run into another guy shooting a .41 at the range, .44's are nothing unusual.

Wow, I awoke a sleeping giant!

I just never understood the 41 Mag. If the advantages of a it are flatter shooting (ie:as a hunting caliber) OK, but a 4" fixed sight gun would not be a "hunter".

As a duty or SD gun I do not see the benefit over a 357 Mag but that's just me.

No doubt it is a clean, cool looking (lack of better adjective) gun.

So I guess this means I have to buy some 41 Mag dies, brass and lead and oh, the gun

Oh, I live under the sand, we have no rocks

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Still Running Against the Wind

Not that I was around when 58's were made originally, but a an old guy with a table full of S&W's, including some 58's explained to me why the 58's aren't common........

58's were marketed for PD sales, but they started coming out in an era when (no offense to anyone intended, this is how it was explained to me)........... more "recoil sensitive" police recruits (smaller stature men, women) couldn't handle the .41 Magnum and it never caught on like S&W intended. Civilians and LEO's who purchased their own sidearms, who really wanted a .41 Magnum usually just bought 57's, so the 58 was kind of left out in the cold, so to speak.


Just like 10mm was supposed to be THE LE round but recoil and muzzle blast made it prohibitive to non-gun people LEO's. The FBI used it for like 10 minutes in the 90's, from what I hear but it was never widely issued. So, the .40 was born by shortening the 10mm and now .40 S&W is THE LEO round

I like the "Classic" 58's, they are neat but you can find a decent, honestly used 58 for the same or less $$.

Damn...

"M10 on steroids."

"Cult following."

Folks are stealing all my material.

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No life story has happy end.

The .41 mag is a bit of an 'oddball' , and many , if not most of it's diehard fans are too!
Some call it a 'cult' cartridge. (wink-wink , nudge-nudge , say no more!)

Forget what great musician was asked (Louis Armstrong?) the question, "Just what is this 'jazz'?" , and he replied, "If ya don't know , I can't tell ya!"

Harley T-shirts had the slogan, "If I gotta explain , ya wouldn't understand!"

Mutt & Jeff , my 4in M58 and 8 3/8 M57. I actually paid more for the 'budget priced' 58 than the top-shelf 57.

There sure would be some excitement around here if I snuck up on one for the right price to add to the menagerie here.

Probably fodder for a separate forum thread but it's been mentioned here in this thread a couple of times that the .41 Magnum is flatter shooting than the .44 Magnum. I don't see that as being a true statement unless one "adjusts" his handloads accordingly. The .44 Magnum more than keeps up with the .41 Magnum's trajectory when both cartridges are used with any maximum but sane handload. Don't get me wrong, I love the .41 Magnum cartridge and think it's the cat's meow but "flatter trajectory" just isn't happening. Besides which, any possible difference in trajectory between the two really is minuscule and of no practical use at any range, but I think it favors the .44 Magnum.

I drool over every 58 pic and read through every 58 thread on these here forums. Im hooked on fixed sight S&Ws since I got my 681 (followed closely by a 581). As sooon as possible, a 58 will be mine! Along with brass and bullets...

I've asked for .41 mag ammo or componants at shops and shows and been told,

Goober, "You mean .44 magnum?"

me, "No .41 magnum!"

Goober, "No such thing! There's a .357 and a .44 magnum."

Sometimes I'll have a round or empty and show them.

Goober, "Well , I've never heard of it!"


Been doing the same thing lately with one of my Starline special run .41 Specials!

Aww heck SP, you've just won us all over with your smooth talkin' ways!!

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Eccentric old coot

Rule3, if that 58 you found is in good condition and reasonably priced buy it. IF you do not like it, I will swap you my 1006 for it.

I was only gonna buy it cause you have one. Come to think of it you have a lot of "them" besides Glocks of course
The gun is nice the grips are dirty, they may have been changed, Need to look at it better.

I just bought a nice 4006, I can crank that up to near 10mm.
I passed on a really nice 610 with GA finger groove grips, really nice but what am I gonna do with it? I dislike moon clips anyway.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have the chance to buy a cased model 57, 8 3/8 bbl. that appears to be unfired. What is the approximate value? Its a pinned and recessed and blued.

The .41 Magnum round was the first cartridge I handloaded over 30 years ago. Loaded it for an 8 3/8" M57. I've had a .41 of one flavor or another in my inventory ever since. I still load for my Nickle M58. I love the look of the fixed sight "N" frame. Reminds me of my Pit Bull, everything you need and nothing you don't

De Oppresso Liber

One of these days. I've got the 57. Model 58 with a Tom Threepersons holster.

I think if Elmer were alive, we would tell you the 41 is flatter shooting. He preferred it over the 44 for long range hunting. If you can get his "Hell, I was there!" book - it is full of great info.

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2 Timothy 1:7

There is just something about the .41 mag -- I have two -- both Model 57's, one I bought around 1982 (blue, 4" bbl), the 2nd in 1984 (nickel,
4" bbl) -- shot maybe two cylinders with the blue, have never fired the nickel -- most of my range time was with .22, .357, 9 mm -- but would never part with my Model 57's and have carried the blue version on occasin. Kind reminds me of the 16 ga. shotgun -- of which I have a variety of versions (Brownings, Remingtons, an Ithaca, Winchesters) -- kind of a quirky caliber but I really enjoy it for dove and quail and early season teal (with it's lighter steel load).

Been looking for a 58 for a few years to go with my 57. Can't find one anywhere. I have a new 58-1, but it is not the same.

I was a young student in the late 70s, finishing my AS in Law Enforcement. A hot topic then, especially in gun rags, was the flaws of the .38 special RNL as a duty round, and the sometimes political debates over the .357. The first article I recall reading about the .41 was by Skeeter, in 1977 or so, in Shooting Timers, when he discussed his views of police service sidearms. I was looking at a temporary summer job in Wyoming soon after, and the Chief said something to the effect the .41 was the minimum caliber they would allow at the time. Got the gun, didn't get the job. It was my first service weapon after the academy. I eventually sold my 6" M57 (argh), but kept the M58. I even carried it as late as 1995 or 1996; I have a very rare Safariland 070/SSIII holster for it.

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NHI, 10-8.

howdy boys , own a late one , even found a set of Fuzzzy Farrant grips , have not gotton to fire the ole hand cannon , hopifully soon , robbt

I have several Model 10's and 13's as well and just like the simple lines they display. For three
years I have been looking for a 58 that I would be willing to pay a reasonable price. I do
buy other guns but walnut and blue utility guns are my pick of the litter.

This NIB 58 surfaced at the OGCA a couple weeks ago, well below the prices that the others at the
show were wearing, decent shooter grade 58's were priced in the $750 range, one man had a
nib blue priced at $1150 and a nib nickel at $1250 and since I have no intentions of ever selling
this one I don't mind disclosing that I paid $ 800.00 for it, well within what I consider reasonable.

terry

...that is a wonderful find for $800.....

Probably the biggest reason that the .41 Magnum came to be was the unwillingness of the ammo companies to update the .44 Special. As was pointed out, the Model 21, which is nothing more than a slim barreled 58, already existed but the 246 grain round nose lead ammo was not much more effective than the 158 grain .38 Special loads. A 240 grain semi-wadcutter at 950 fps would have kicked a little more than the .41 Magnum Police Load of a 210 SWC at 950 and probably been more effective on the receiving end...

One thing that has not been pointed out is that full loads in the .41 don't seem to shoot a N-frame loose quite as quick as a .44 Magnum will. As to recoil with full loads...don't ask me why but I did and still do feel the difference especially with 4" guns.

I've owned about 10 58s and still have two. One is a 1964 first year of production that someone had parkerized...







The second is a early 1970s that has been customized with bobbed hammer, smooth trigger, Mag-Na-Port barrel, action job and larger cylinder release...












Both are great shooters....







Bob

When I proffered the notion of a .41 special or .44 special configuration I didn't mean to infer I thought that would have been more successful commercially at the moment; your points about what was available at the time and not selling, etc. are well taken. But there are a lot of guns that are mythic and much sought after now that "no one wanted" when they were introduced. For example, the 696. I believe (like many others) that a fixed site version of a .41 or .44 special, or a 45 caliber offering like the 58 would today have a much wider acceptance and appeal. Had the course of the history of it not veered toward semi-auto technology and improved ammo performance, such would have been more in demand had revolvers remained the mainstay of the police and smaller sized/framed, larger caliber offerings would have had more commercial appeal in line with the more liberal concealed carry policies of today. And not my intention to drag "the lock" in as a major part of the discussion, but here (among the faithful) at least, I suspect many a 45ACP, .41 Special, or .44 Special L frame snubbie would be sold if available without that "improvement".

Of course, the market place dictated and it will always be argued that the only reason the 58 and 696's are so revered today is because they (in the original incarnation) are in limited supply. Sometimes a good concept dies in the market place before enough people learn to appreciate it to make it commercially viable before something different comes along to fill the need as well or better. And doesn't matter how good of an idea it is, if the manufacturers can't turn a buck on it and sell enough of them, they aren't going to make them.

How about a 41 Magnum Show and Tell?

I have an S series 58 and for me, N frame Smith's have SOUL. The model 58 in particular. I don't find it particularly difficult to shoot and when I began my career I carried it as we had great latitude and as long as we qualified with it my boss was happy. I don't buy into that old chessnut about gals and small fellas not being able to handle the recoil. Your recoil shy or your not. I think training is the key to good shooting no matter who you are. Just my 2 cents.

Well you bunch of enablers "made me do it" I put a down payment on the M 58 today. I took some "crummy" cell phone pics but did not save them Gotta wait 30 days (pawn shop rules)

What confuses me is it is a N2616** But by the SC of SW that serial number put it at 1974-1977* there is a asterix with a explanation, but the guns where only made from 1964 to 1968 (page 221) So I have no idea what year it is???

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Still Running Against the Wind

It makes us feel better to have company in our gun rich, cash poor world....lol.

There's nothing magic about the 41 Magnum. It's simply the 44 Magnum reduced by about 15%. Ammo and bullets for loading are more available for the 44 than the 41 and there isn't anything the 41 can do that the 44 doesn't do about 15% better.

The caliber has devout followers. Good for them. But the 41 never really took off and as a police gun (as the 58 was intended) it was an abysmal failure.

I have a 58 that I bought back around 1988 or so. Paid $189 for it from a PA wholesaler. It was supposed to be a police trade-in but I have no idea from which agency. I have never figured out exactly what it is good for. Too big really for carry. The fixed sights limit its usefulness as a sporting pistol. Recoil is heavy for a smaller person or neophyte shooter. I keep it as an oddity.

I also have a 4" nickel M57. Was looking for a 29 in that configuration when I found the 57 priced at $325 and couldn't resist.

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No life story has happy end.

I think you've mis-read the info - production ceased on the 58's around 1977-78.

I be confused. My book says:

SC of SW 3rd Edition top right corner of page , Engineering and production changes

58 (1964) Intro as Sxxxx
1969 M 58 discontinued.

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Still Running Against the Wind

The book seems to contradict itself in the previous column, production extended to '77 maybe ending with the 'dash one' ? I guess production of the "58" may have been halted for a while - I'm sure someone will chime in with the skinny soon. I can see where one would be confused, but the serial numbers back up the thru '77 date.

I going to be honest, I never heard of the .41 until I came here. Also, ammunition is hard to find for this gun and that is the only reason why I would not own one. Neat to see though. If a 58 is what you like, then so be it. Cult? There is other calibers that are scarce and people collect guns in those calibers so I would not call it a cult.

James

Thank you. I see that now. I would imagine that the serial number indicates the correct year. I seem to remember a thread in the Lounge were we (members) requested not a new addition but perhaps an update or revision page, primarily with values and correcting known errors. Even if it was just a on line PDF file or something that would not cost a lot.

Regards

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have the letter for the one I posted above. Shipped in 1977 (I didn't realize it may be last year of production and makes me wonder how close it is to the last one). No way the 58 was dropped in 1969.

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No life story has happy end.

Yep, a m22 or 21 heavy barrel would be a dream come true..

Too bad the fixed sight N frames (and pretty much all the non-magnums) went out of regular production in the 60s, or we might have seen them.