Back in 1954 at the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, Carl Hellstrom, then the president of S&W, approached noted ex-Marine, Border Patrol officer, marksman and exhibition shooter Bill Jordan for his recommendations on the ideal revolver for law enforcement officers. Until then, the only .357s were built on the heavier N-frames.

Jordan recommended a .357 magnum-chambered gun in a medium-sized revolver, the K-frame, and suggested a heavy barrel with a shrouded extractor rod, similar to that used on the Model 27 N-frame, together with target grips and adjustable sights.

Hellstrom put his boys to work at S&W, and they came up with a strengthened K-frame and improved metallurgy for the new gun. On November 15, 1955, the first Combat Magnum was introduced. Jordan demonstrated one of the new guns (he owned the very first production gun) on the popular TV show You asked for it, with Art Baker, the host. I remember watching that very show when I was in high school, and hearing Jordan describe the gun as "...the answer to a peace officer's dream." Following the show, sales of the revolver took off, and it became very popular with the law enforcement community, which was then mostly armed with revolvers.

Jordan was not only a skilled exhibition shooter, but an accomplished gunfighter, and his book No Second Place Winner also became a best seller in the firearms field. I had the pleasure of meeting Bill in 1970 at the World Shooting Championships in Phoenix, and am proud to have an autographed copy of his book. It's well worth reading today if you can find a copy. Bill Jordan had "seen the elephant" and wrote from personal experience. It's noteworthy that Jordan was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Ronald Reagan.



I have several model 19s. The one illustrated here is a 19-3, which left the factory in March, 1977. It's a terrific example of a classic S&W when quality was in flower.

It's sad that Bill Jordan and other great gun writers of that era are no longer with us. They are sorely missed.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Bill was a great American!! There are too few such men left in this country Sadly.

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Model-60 Chiefs Special

If that's a M19 in his hand on the cover, then he has some MASSIVE paws!

In 1972 my first service revolver was a 4", Blued, Model 19. Wish I still had her.

hardcase60

Had the pleasure of spending an afternoon shooting with Bill. That feller was FAST!

His hands were huge. He modified the trigger guard on his 19 to enable him to get his finger on the trigger quicker.

That is, in fact a Model 19 in Bill Jordan's hand on the cover of No Second Place Winner.

He was a soft spoken gentleman, at least 6 and one-half feet tall (6'6" or 6'7") and his hands were huge.

His book shows how he modified his S&W revolvers. Aside from his Jordan Trooper grips, which ADDED material to the back strap, he also rounded the sight blade, and removed the right half of the trigger guard, which is how that feature found its way onto the Texas Ranger Commemorative Model 19.

The Jordan Trooper grip only works for people with long fingers and massive hands, so if you have Herrett's make a set for you, be sure you have them make the grip so that the backstrap of the revolver is exposed, rather than covered, which was necessary for Jordan because his hands were so big.

I gave Bill a ride to the airport at the NRA Annual Meetings in Phoenix several years back, and it was a great pleasure to get to know him just a little before his untimely passing. He was a thoughtful man, and although his autographed book is special, the kind letter he wrote to me after that car ride is a treasure.

Most of us have read about Jordan on this or other forums, and we all remember his writings in the various magazines, including his Point-Counterpoint with Massad Ayoob on revolver versus semi-auto from Guns Magazine, I think it was, although Mas can correct me if I am wrong.

However, if you want a little different side of Jordan, there is an entire section in the book "Gunning for Justice" by lawyer Gerry Spence which tells of the shooting, by Chief Ed Cantrell of fellow Rock Springs, Wyoming police officer Michael Rosa. If I recall correctly, Rosa had threatened Cantrell after the two had problems. In any event, Cantrell, who was VERY quick on the draw drew and shot Rosa the moment he saw Rosa's eyes change to gunfighter aggressive. Unfortunately for Cantrell, he was so fast that Rosa never even cleared leather. Spence, with Jordan's help and an in-court demonstration in front of the jury, earned Cantrell an acquittal with less than two hours of jury deliberation.

While the trial was pending, Spence employed Cantrell because no one else would. He worked on Spence's 35,000 acre ranch. Jordan taught Spence how to combat shoot with the S&W Model 19. The book gives a fantastic picture of Cantrell and Jordan, and describes the in-court demonstration in a way that only Spence can tell the story.

It seems that a cocked 1911 (loaded with blanks) was given to the bailiff who was to hold it IN HIS HAND. All the bailiff had to do was to pull that "hair trigger" when he saw Jordan go for his holstered Smith & Wesson. It seems that the bailiff had a "deer in the head lights look" when Jordan went from hands down relaxed to full speed, drew his revolver lightning fast and "killed" the court bailiff in front of the jury before the bailiff could even react and pull the trigger on that tuned 1911. The poor dumbfounded bailiff was left holding a cocked 1911 sporting an apparently surprised look. After the demonstration, Jordan told the jury that Cantrell was "a might bit faster than I am."

The point, of course, was to show that when you factor in reaction time, a man with a holstered gun is often capable of catching up and beating a man who "has the drop on you."

Jordan, of course, could draw and fire accurately faster than any man ever, save Ed McGivern of Montana and maybe Bob Munden, although Jordan did it for real.

Jordan also could draw his S&W so fast that a ping pong ball held on top of his hand, while his hand was resting on the back strap of the gun, would easily fall into the holster as the revolver was removed with lightning speed. He did not bump the ball up when he did this maneuver, he merely closed his hand around the revolver and drew - blindingly quick.

Jordan said the hardest part of that trick was not getting his revolver out of the holster so the ball could drop in, but arranging the geometry so that the ball would fall into the holster instead of missing and falling to the ground. When he did that, he would simply shoot the ball before it hit the floor. He repeated this trick when he was well into his 80s, long after he had "hung up his guns."

Despite his skill, he was a nice man, funny and he was quite an avid golfer. He was the "real deal."

Henderson Jordan, Bill's uncle, I think, was Sheriff of Bienville Parish, Louisiana, and was a member of the Bonnie and Clyde Posse. Henderson Jordan is first row middle, next to famed lawman Frank Hamer, who is first row, right, in the attached picture.

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I have an interesting copy of Jordan's book. Evidently he was not a great fan of Skeeter's.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

I have the same book autographed as well by Mr. Jordan. A colorful character with deadly repose.

Either that, or they were really good friends! I honestly don't know...

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Registration? NEVER!

Mr.-- Jordan signed a book for me as well- I still have it. John failed to mention, Mr. Jordan had hands as big a hams. Most men, I dare to say can barely get their hands around a pair of 'JORDAN CUSTOM' stocks. Of course, there are a few.
BLESS HIS MEMORY-

Jordan was a larger-than-life personality and his book is a good read, I have "only" a regular copy although a good friend has an autographed example. To be fair though the information is somewhat dated, but interesting nonetheless for wheel gun aficionados. I re-read Jordan’s book and Keith’s “Sixguns” back to back earlier this year.

Didn't know that Jordan had received the Medal of Freedom, thanks for thank information.

Always enjoyed the back and forth between Skeeter Skelton and Bill Jordan.

I talked to Bill Jordan at the 1988 NRA Convention in Orlando.
He told me the Jordan-Skeeter flap was a long-running joke, something
I had figured out on my own earlier.

Have the book, but didn't have it in Orlando, so it's not signed.

I had the privilege of meeting Bill Jordan at an NRA Annual meeting held in his old "stompin' grounds," New Orleans. We chatted for a few moments, but most of what we talked about was the restaurants on Bourbon St.

I heard him talking about then recently deceased Skeeter, and from what they both said about each other in print and from what I overheard, I believe they had a genuine liking for each other and that the teasing back and forth was an outgrowth from the kind of guys they were. I feel genuinely fortunate to have met and talked with both of them.

Froggie

I lost my 1st Ed." No Second Place Winner" in the flood of 1990[SE Alabama]It was autographed. When I finally found a replacement Bill had "gone on". I never met the man but would have loved to.
I did know Skeeter, and met him several times in and around Deming,N.M.
Skeeter and Bill were the best of friends but conjured up the rivalry when Bill retired and started writing for another mag. Skeeter had been on the staff of Shooting Times for some time and they concluded ,and openly admitted, that the "rivalry" was very profitable for the both of them!
Mssrs. Keith,Skelton, Jordan,Askins, Munden, and so many other greats will never be replaced in our lifetime if ever.More's the pity but this country and our world were the better for their passing this way. We are lucky to have been around during their lifetimes. Nick

It isn't generally known, but Bill Jordan was a U.S. Marine officer, and served in both WWII and Korea. During the Pacific campaign in WWII, he was tasked with eliminating Japanese snipers from caves on Eniwetok and Okinawa. He retired from the USMC as a reserve Colonel.

In spite of his distinguished service record, unlike some of his contemporaries such as Charlie Askins II and George Nonte, he never used his military rank in print, although he was fully justified to use "Col. Bill Jordan" as his byline.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Kevin:

As I understand it, they were good friends. They traded playful barbs like that quite a bit, including in print in Shooting Times.

Skelton told the story of being at some gathering with Jordan which resulted in some impromptu target practice. According to Skelton, Jordan tried Skelton's Model 19, on which Skelton had worked over the action.

Skelton said Jordan liked it so much he switched grips, holstered Skelton's Model 19 and said, "When you get the action on mine as smooth as yours, we'll trade back."

According to Skelton, he was on Patrol a few nights later when he had to shoot at a "contrabandista"* from quite a distance in the dark. He later found the gent's hat with a bullet hole through the top and said that "Jordan's damned old gun shot high."

Now, whether this happened, or whether it was one of Skelton's yarns is not known to me, but it was a good story nonetheless.

In any event, I believe Jordan and Skeeter were friends, and I thought I remembered seeing some pictures of them together on hunts and so forth.

Best regards,

Shawn

*smuggler, trafficker

Thought I would post a picture of my new early pre model 19 that has Jordan's DNA in it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/98794472@N04/9555203415/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98794472@N04/9555203415/ by alex1961m, on Flickr

Jordan was indeed huge. Here he is with a guy claimed to be the FBI's famous lawman Jelly Bryce, but that is unverified. That man is demonstrating the "FBI crouch" and Jordan the "standing tall" position. Probably Jordan didn't need to worry about getting shot, even though he was a big man. He simply could get off the first accurate shot, even without using the sights on his gun. As he put it, "Speed is fine, but accuracy is final."



Jordan died soon after his wife. Here are their grave markers, in Linden (Cass County) Texas graveyard #1.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I think I had better get my copy of the book off of the shelf and read it again.

Weird,They where about 7 months apart in age and died about 7 months apart from each other.

Like other fortunate members here, I also had the pleasure of meeting Bill Jordan around 1971 when he gave a talk and shooting exhibition at a local service club. I too, recall that he was a "tall drink of water" with huge hands and seemed very soft-spoken and very much a gentleman, however, he also had a stare that would freeze fire and just exuded an air of self-confidence. That was punctuated with the blinding speed and accuracy with which he wielded that Model 19. A formidable hombre to say the least. I once owned two signed copies of No Second Place Winner which was gospel to me in my early LE career. I did part with one copy to a moderator here on the forum but I still have the other copy and to this day I occasionally re-read that timeless work.

Bill Jordan was an exlemplary lawman and one of the great Americans of our time the likes of which we may not see again. As he would have said, "he'll do to rider the river with."

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S&W Armorer
Lost in the 50s

Mike Prewar, please post the pic of Bill Jordan's Combat Magnum if you have the time. It would fit nicely in this discussion.
Regards
Chuck

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SWCA1517 SWHF256
Rangers LTW!

There is a rumor that Jordan has an accidental discharge with his Model 19 and killed another officer. Any truth to it?

Not disparaging the man. He was a hero.

Unfortunately, this is true.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Here are the details. Jordan is not mentioned in this particular article. The deceased was John A. Rector. October, 1956. Rule 1: All guns are always loaded. Unfortunately, Jordan momentarily forgot this rule, and I'm sure the incident haunted him for the rest of his life.

San Diego County Regional Law Enforcement Memorial

Pennie Rector, John Rector's daughter, was 13 years old and in the 8th grade at the time. She has publicly stated that she bore Jordan no ill will. She also stated that "...Bill was so upset that he had to be taken home under sedation and the next day I remember he and his wife coming to our house, and he sobbed as he told us how sorry he was. He and my Dad were friends." This incident does serve to remind us all that no matter how expert you may be or think you may be, any gun handled in an administrative manner MUST be checked and unloaded if necessary.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

John,

I've seen this picture before with the same assertion that Jelly Bryce is to Jordan's right. Do you have positive attribution to establish that that is Jelly? I don't think it is, FWIW.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

If you think he made a M19 look small... look what his hand does to a N-Frame Model 57 in this vintage S&W ad!!

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

I can't be 100% certain. That's the caption I found with the picture while googling on the internet. If you have a bona fide picture of Bryce, that would surely help by making a comparison.

Best,
John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

As someone who has been interested in handguns for a number of years, I have had the opportunity to meet some of the greats. I have met and spoken with Jim Cirillo, Harry Reeves, Bill Blankenship, Bill Jordan and others. One thing that impressed me about most of them is how modest and gracious they are. Bill Jordan was along in years when I met him at Camp Perry, but he still was an imposing figure. I felt like a little kid when I shook his baseball glove-like hand. My young daughter was upset with me for "yelling" at him when we spoke and told me so later. I had to explain that it was because Mr. Jordan was very hard of hearing.

I've got quite a few from LIFE magazine, his biography and FBI sources. NONE of them look like the guy in that photo with Jordan.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Chuck,
All that proves is that is was shorter than the other two guys in the picture. On his application he lists his height as 5' 8 1/2". In my experience, guys who include the "1/2" run about two inches shorter than what they claim. So, Jelly was pretty short. But the facial features of that guy in the picture with Jordan don't look anything like any other known picture of Bryce. And I've never seen him in that kind of hat. He like fancy clothes, hence the nickname "Jelly" for Jelly Bean, which, back in the day apparently was a moniker for a slick dresser. But a lot of guys from Oklahoma and Texas that considered themselves fancy dressers did not wear cowboy hats. It played into the stereotype too much. To be different they would wear fedoras or derbies or pork pies. All of this is pretty far afield from the original thread so my apologies to the OP.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Looks like a K frame!

I was always amazed that a man that big could move that fast.

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Certified AR-15 / SIG Armorer.

Well, I just found this little tidbit:



Using a double action revolver, Bill Jordan was recorded drawing, firing and hitting his target in .27 of a second.

YEP, that is fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bart Skelton's book said he got the hat.

And wow never heard about Jordan's accidental discharge. WOW. If it can happen to a Master it can happen to anybody.


Jordan's book on his time in the Border Patrol is a must read as well. Kept me laughing all the way through it. He claimed to have gotten in trouble for taking part in a long high round count with the other side across the River in Ol Mexico... The problem was instead of breaking contact. Jordan returned to HQ a few miles away.... FOR MORE AMMO!!!

I just modified the caption to that picture above - unverified it is.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Can you imagine getting punched in the face by those huge fists?
OUCH!

Returned for more ammo. Now, that's funny.

He was a man. Definitely not some PC, Bleeding heart pansy.

Guys, there might be a bit more to this story than Cantrell saw a threat in the eyes of Rosa. I mean, seeing ''gunfighter aggression'' in the other lawman's eyes as justification for killing him?

Well, based on that criteria, during my 41 years as a law officer I guess there are a couple of hundred folks I should have shot!

Rosa was supposed to testify about local police corruption in three days at a Grand Jury. Guess he didn't make it.....

Rich

Herald-Journal - Google News Archive Search

Here is another take on the matter:

A Tough and Corrupt Wyoming Mountain Town Is Shocked by the Death of a Good Cop : People.com

The incident happened on a Friday. Rosa, a New York City guy from Puerto Rico and clearly not "one of the boys" was scheduled to testify at a grand jury that coming Monday.

One of the other men in the car recalled the following:

Jim Callas remembers something else Ed Cantrell said that evening as they discussed Rosa's subpoena: "Maybe we ought to take the son of a bitch out and kill him."

Rosa had been in a bar drinking a glass of wine. He was called by police dispatch at the order of Cantrell for him to come out of the bar and into the car the other three lawmen were sitting in. Within a few moments Rosa was dead, his gun still tucked in his waistband.

Cantrell told one of the other officers there, Bider, "to put his service revolver on the floor in front of Rosa's body as if Rosa had drawn it. Bider refused."

Cantrell got away with a cold blooded murder. He wasn't the first guy to come up with a nutty justification (my personal favorite is the "Twinkie defense used in the White Moscone/Milk homicides) and give a friendly jury some wiggle room to cut him loose.

Believe what you will about the incident. Doesn't really matter now, as everyone involved in dead.

Rich

Believe what you will about the incident. Doesn't really matter now, as everyone involved in dead.

I have avoided entering into this fray again. I have posted my feelings on this subject here before. I will only say that I was around Cantrell and shot with him when he was on the Highway Patrol. I wouldn't turn my back on Cantrell for any reason. I also shot with Bill Jordan.

I can tell you that the sun never rose on the day that Ed was a "mite faster" than Bill Jordan.

I met Bill Jordan in Oklahoma City,Oklahoma on May 27,1980 at Mashburn Arms Co.There he signed his book for me.I was very privileged to have met and spoken with him.He left a lasting impression with me,what a great man he was.

Yep, he was 6' 6". Google Jordan-style stocks. An average shooter probably couldn't reach the trigger with them. Same basic shape as Miculek but with lots of wood covering the backstrap, much thicker, and probably more material around the front strap.

The holster is also his design.

Not only were Jordan's stocks huge, they must've been very heavy. I read once he had his stocks made of lignum vitae, aka guayacan or ironwood, one of the densest woods in the world. Throw it in the water, and it will sink.

Jordan was also the impetus for the .41 magnum. He thought the police load was good but was disappointed the gun was a full-size N-frame. He wrote later he had been naive to think S&W would design a whole new frame around an unproven cartridge (yes, I know, they have done it since then, but this was the truly-conservative 1950s.) I often wonder if the L-frame could chamber a 6-round .41 mag or 10mm. That would be an awesome revolver.

This is NOT JELLY BRYCE in this 1964 image taken from
"No Second Place Winner" by Bill Jordan (page 56).

This is Louis M. Werne, Jr. with Bill Jordan,
with a more complete answer in a nearby forum.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/139003848-post48.html

Regards, Tory Werne

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Bill Jordan always stopped by a local gun shop when in town. The patriarch of the family run place was an old friend and competitor of his.

I had the priveledge of chatting with him several times in the seventies. The only guy I ever knew with hands that large was a defensive lineman for the Detroit Lions. I was always surprised that Jordan favored the K frame gun. He was a nice guy to visit with. He usually made the approach to me as I was normally in uniform. I never wanted to infringe on his time with his old friend, but there were lots of folks that we both knew. Nice to catch up on happenings.

Jack

Jerry Spence was a great attorney, Cantrell convinced him that he was innocent and Spence took the case to defend Cantrell, a man that the press had convicted long before the trial. Cantrell did not stand a chance, and no way could he afford to pay Spence. Spence took the case and his defense was brilliant. Spence was a true friend to a man who truly needed one.

My vote goes for Spence and Cantrell.

I have that book autographed as well.

It was, and he did.

My Bill Jordan tribute gun.

Another Jordan (and Steve Herrett) tribute