I currently have and carry a S&W 9mm shield and I like it. My wife has a model 642. I like the 642 OK but the barrel is a bit shorter than I'd like and I would prefer 357 magnum for myself.

While I like my 9mm shield, I still really like revolvers. So with so many models of S&W revolvers I thought I would ask the experts here.

I have shot my brothers Ruger LCR in 357 and it is OK. But again such a short barrel and a little too light gun which is less than enjoyable to shoot in 357 with marginal performance Advantage of going to 357.

I think a 3" barrel is a compromise for 357. I am a smaller build man, and trying to conceal anything more than a 3" barrel would get difficult.

I also own a model 17 K frame 22 LR. And I'm thinking a steel K-frame 3" model in 357 would be about right. I would prefer models that were at least 38+P capable. I suspect there are several S&W model numbers that would fit that criteria. I would prefer adjustable sights and a full extractor/ejection rod to cleanly eject 357 empty cases. (Hence the 3" barrel version should allow that I think)

I would also consider a ruger models, something like a security six. Maybe SP101, but the 101 is getting to the high side of weight I woild consider.

I would love to be able to carry this gun frequently and do not want to do this with a $1,000 or something gun. I'm thinking something to about the $650 range. I have no issue with buying used, and frankly would prefer older S&W or Ruger models.

So guys, can you help me narrow down my search to a handful of models in S&W and maybe Ruger models?

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful responses.

Look no further. The gun you want is either a 3" K frame round butt model 13 or 65. One is blued, the other is stainless. In my opinion, the 3" K frame is the most ideal SD handgun offered.

Also, while being able to chamber the .357 Magnum is desirable. You're probably better off using contemporary .38 SPL +P for defense. The round is more controllable and costs less.

"I'm thinking something to about the $650 range. I have no issue with buying used, and frankly would prefer older S&W or Ruger models."

Since you really like the K-Frame 17 you will love the 13/65 for carry with the round butt... Just find a set of grips you like and it will be perfect.

That said finding a good clean 65/13 3" is kinda hard these days. Your best bet is one of the auction sites like GunBroker or Auction Arms. ARMSLIST and GunsInternational are good places to look also.

Expect to pay $600-800 for the 65...not sure but I think the 13s go for a little more.

The 60-10 and 60-15 are also excellent guns for CC... I have one that I use a lot while fishing and boating... I've shot it with .357 Magnum ammo against the 65 3" and there is little difference between the two in realistic short range combat scenarios. And it is a little easier to carry than the 65/13. Price range for a pre-IL -10 is in the $650 range with the -15 a little less.

The GP100 or an older round butt Security-Six are nice guns...3" fixed sight ones go in the $525-650 range....

As to the hammer spur, they can always be ground off or replaced with a spurrless one...

Bob

I know you said 3" barrel, both if you come across a M60-9 which has a 2.125" full lug barrel you might to give it some consideration. With the right grips it handles .357's really well. Here's mine with a set of combat grips. Good luck on your search. PEN

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This is the 1961-80 subforum right?
So the 13/65 is the only allowable answer.
PERIOD!

Here are a few to choose from.

These are J frame -- lighter and smaller than the K frames.

The 60-15 shoots 357 Magnum, but is the heaviest.

The 37-0 is light.

The 36-1 is heavier than the 37, has no internal lock, but is lighter than the 60-15.

All are good shooters.

60-15


37-0


36-1

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A 3" K frame .357 may give you sticker shock, especially if you really want adjustable sights - model 66s of this length are well over your budget and there are probably no more than a thousand 3" model 19s. As mentioned above, model 13s and 65s are out there in your price range.

You may want to consider either a 3" model 64 (stainless) or 10 (blue/nickel) in .38 Special; plenty of good, effective SD ammo choices. Finally, you may find an older 2 3/4" Ruger Speed or Security Six, but your best current choice may a 3" SP101, a little lighter and compact than a K frame and you'll probably appreciate the extra mass whenever you touch off a full .357 in it. Good luck in your search.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Ruger SP 101

Stop your search! A K frame RB 3" Mod.-547, 9mm. An absolute delight to carry and shoot. Best

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

...and out of your budget range, unfortunately.

If you can live with 38+P, you have options as described above.

Another thought is, there's a new Model 66 with a 2 3/4" barrel coming out any time now. I think it would meet all the criteria you have. $849 is suggested retail, so maybe you can get one for closer to what you want to spend.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

So does someone know what is the weights of a 3" K frame 357 and 3" SP101 are?

A 3" K frame is listed at 30.5 and the SP101 27 ounces. Some rubber grips for the K frame are pretty heavy, not to mention the extra fraction of an ounce for the sixth round .

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

It's a mistake to consider just weight. The SP has less bulk.


The right holster and belt will minimize felt weight, and you need some mass in firing hot .38 Plus P or .357 ammo.


The S&W M-60-4 .38 or Ruger SP in .357 would be my choices. I'd def. select the Ruger over the S&W if I wanted .357 chambering.


Most people answering questions like this do not read the OP carefully. That's why you're getting those references to K-framed guns. Given that you're a small man, I think I'd avoid guns that size for concealed wear.


Col. John S, Mosby, CSA, only weighed about 125 pounds, but was so dangerous that he had Lincoln feeling unsafe from him in the White House! But Mosby wore his Colt .44's openly!

[quote[/quote]

Three on the right are 3" J-frames (36-6, 60-4, 36-1) but the one on the left is a 3" K-frame 65-5 Ladysmith, if you'd like a prelock w/ a shrouded rod. New you could pay a grand but $650 would buy you a nice used one. Hard to find a 3" adjustable-sight K-frame w/ a shrouded rod for much under a grand.

are all the 3" J-frames 38 special only?

No, but they should be! The ones using the J-Magnum frame will fire .357's, but recoil is grim.


I think the Ruger SP is the smallest and lightest .357 I'd want.


I can shoot a .44 Magnum well for at least one box of ammo, more than I'd likely ever fire at once in the field. Most people can't do that, if they're honest. But I avoid J-framed .357's.

I think that's true of the lightweight Scandium guns, but my 3" model 60-15 is not that bad -- particularly with the mid range 357 magnum defense loads.

The stock rubber grip that covers the back strap helps.

In post 3 above, the 60-15 is a .357. A similar gun without the internal lock was the 60-10. There are also .22s and .32s.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

It is very hard to go wrong with a K-frame round butt for this purpose.

I have owned two 3" k frames and truthfully don't miss them. I am just a j frame kind of guy. I can carry my 3" model 60 and a back up 642 easier than a k frame.

I would consider buying a 3" Ruger LCR (no hammer) in 357 mag. But alass, they do not make a 3" 357 mag.

Only the hammered version LCRX in 38+p.

For no snag concealed carry, it would be nice to not have a hammer or to bob a hammer spur.

If you want 5 shots (whether .38 Spl or .357 Magnum), then maybe a M60 or Ruger SP101 3" would satisfy you. I have an older M36 .38 Spl 3" RB HB that is a dandy little 3" snub.

If you want 6 shots, then a K/L frame 3" would probably meet your needs.

While the type of holster and the cylinder thickness are more noticeable to some folks than to other folks, it's often the size/shape of the grip (and any added grip stocks) that usually create concealment considerations.

The barrel length difference between 3" & 4" isn't so much of a concealment issue, aside from considerations of the holster's design and position (high/low on the belt line), and whether you're going to be seated a lot.

It really comes down to how you perceive the "shoot-ability" of any particular make/model, once you narrow down the capacity to 5 or 6 rounds (or maybe 7 rounds, if you come across a 686-Plus in a 3" length).

Some folks might find they prefer to compromise in the size/weight to offset felt recoil concerns, and others might not mind the felt recoil and might prefer to look for the smallest overall size. Even overall weight is a subjective issue, as it may affect both felt recoil and daily carry considerations.

Figure out the directions in which you wish, or would just be willing, to accept, and see what guns fit for the intended role.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Sounds like your OK with the capacity of the J frame and the weight of the Shield. If true, this one would be worth a look. I just got one in 38 special but they come in 357 mag as well. Very sweet balance, good out of the box trigger, lighter than the Sp101 at 23 oz, and shoots better than most J frames (or Sp101's) I've owned.! Even has a factory night sight.


Performance Center(R) Pro Series(R) Model 60 | Smith & Wesson

A Ruger SP101 would be my second choice IF I were committed to give it a trigger job. Never met a SP101 that didn't desperately need one.

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Dave

Model 65 like the one in my avatar and pictured below. You can get one with a little holster wear and no box docs or stuff in your price range, especially if you are OK with a -6 or newer with the lock. I got this one last year with factory rubber grips on it for less than $550 OTD...

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WOW I'd love to find a 3" 65 like yours for only $55.00!!!!!

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I saw a beautiful nickel 3" 10-8 at a gunshow today. Unfortunately someone else had just purchased it for $500.00. So, I guess I'll have to make do with my 3" model 65 marked BRPD (Baton Rouge) that I bought a few years ago for $400.00. This gun rides very well on the zero-turn mower and the tractor and is very accurate. I usually carry it with some Silvertips. I sold a 3" model 64 after I bought the 65. I should have kept it too...but I can say that about a lot of things.

OOPS! Missed the zero there when typing that.
Price corrected to $550 OTD.

for ones that will not be priced insanely high I think you could consider:
Model 13
Model 65
Model 686

All good options right there.

As posted above, the 2.125 inch J frames like the Model 640-1 in .357 are quite controllable with the right grips. I hear Hogue Tamers work well. I like the old Sile grips.

Thinking outside the box. I didn't even know these existed until a few weeks ago.





Model 396-1 in 44 Special. Five shot, alloy "L" frame, titanium cylinder, 3" barrel, round butt, fiber optic front sight with a wide V adjustable rear. Weight is 18 ounces. Recoil is no worse than a Charter Arms Bulldog. I'm sure you could up the load and make it kick like a mule, but if you stay with normal 44 Special loads, you'll be OK.

They were only made for a few years, so they probably aren't real common. I paid $550.00 for this one. No idea if that was good, bad, or indifferent.

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John 3:16 .

I liked the Charter Arms Bulldog. It was my first carry gun. The S&W 396-1 has more bells and whistles but fills the same nitch. The superiority to a 3 inch k frame would be less weight, lower pressure round. I'd look at 200 grain loads in SWC as the velocity won't insure expansion and penetration.

I have shot my brothers LCR in 357 and we mixed 38 and 357 at random ans spun the cyliner and handed to the other and the. Sot it. That is only like a 19 ounce gun and the recoil with 357 was noticeable but not crazy.

The main reason I want 3" barrel is for two reasons. One is signt radius, the other is to have less performance loss. I'm not sure you get much performance gain in 357 over 38+p from anything less than 3" barrel. If going down to. 2" or 2.25" barrel, may as well stick with a gun with "only" 38+p limit.

A 3", fixed sight K frame (M10, 64, 13, 65, etc) is the obvious answer - given the budget limitation.

That said, JohnRippert's (Post #29) recommendation of a 2.125" barreled M640-1, is a good one. 38 or 357. Mine wears a Hogue Centennial Tamer, & is hands down, the most naturally pointing revolver I own.

I also own a very nice 3" M65-3, & have quality Andrews Custom Leather pancake (Saddle Style) holsters for both. Although both conceal well, the M640-1 carries better, & usually gets the nod for a trip to the store - or a night on the town...

Pics of the M640-1 w/ both Hogue Bantam, & Centennial Tamer attached.

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Regards - GCF

J Frame Model 36 w/3" barrel ALL STEEL, fits perfectly IWB, not heavy at all. Lighter then my plastic SR9c

See post #3. 3 inch 37. This is where somebody will say you can't shoot this or that in it. Shoot it for years with .38 special and carry it with some "Hell Loads" in it. It and you will be fine.

A little big for my taste to carry but you'll sure as heck never wear it out! Some years ago I had a Taurus "J frame sized" with 3-inch barrel. It was a neat little gun but also only 5 rounds. Can't remember the model number.

649 fun to shoot . I've moved to a shield Pro.

Flyingfool: the loaded weight of the s&w model 60 with the 3 inch barrel is 28 ounces.

The loaded weight of a ruger sp101 chambered in .357 magnum with a 3 inch barrel is 32 ounces.

Now i know you mentioned that the ruger sp101 with a 3 inch barrel is difficult for you to carry, but that extra weight will help to control the revolvers recoil.

Now a good holster and a good belt will help make the carrying process easier, now if chose a shoulder holster the weight of the gun will be distributed among your shoulders and back muscles.

If you chose chest carry the guns weight will be distributed onto your chest and stomach muscles.

I hope all of this information is helpful

I'm a big guy and find a 3" more uncomfortable to carry than a 2". That extra inch seems to make a big difference when sitting, interfering with seat belts, etc. I settled on a 640 Pro because it is easy to conceal, handles .357 (though I rarely shoot them) and has outstanding sights. The sites are the best I have found on a fixed sight gun and makes the gun very accurate. Barrel is only 2.125" but gets the job done.

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Although I like the concept of a 3" barrel for it's ballistic and sight radius benefits, the 2" is more comfortable in my preferred mode of carry which is AISW.

While my 360PD's super light weight make it a joy to carry, even when strapped to my ankle, that light weight makes it a literal pain to shoot, especially when running magnum loads in it.

For this reason I bought a 340 Pro Series to shoot, being an all steel gun, the extra weight (10 ounces) translates into a firearm that is pleasant to shoot in comparison to the 360.



I'll also chime in on the excellence of the night sights provided with the 340 Pro Series. At nearly 4' from the front sight to the Tritium rear's it offers nearly an inch more radius than the 360.

This extra inch contributes greatly to get the sight picture on target and hold it there. As far as adjustability they are drift adjustable. With a quality sight pusher this is a one time adjustment and once the weapon shoots point of aim no more adjustments are needed. Mine needed no adjustment as it shot point of aim out of the box.

Round selection determines elevation so finding a bullet that shoots to point of aim is a matter of trial by fire. Lighter bullets seem to shoot lower than heavier rounds. You need to find the right combination of bullet weight and ammo manufacturer that brings the point of impact to point of aim.

With the 360 I've added CT laser grips that effectively make sight radius unimportant and also has an air pocket over the backstrap that greatly reduces felt recoil.



As to the muzzle bast with snubby revolvers I consider that part of the "shock and awe" that can end a fight even without any hits. Touching off a snubby, especially shooting magnum loads, is the equivalent of tossing a flash bang into a room.

digiroc

Easy choice for me - 3" J frame , in this case a 60-3. Points easily , balances nicely , carries comfortably.

I love my K fames , but they are too much for IWB.

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As one who has owned several 3" J and K frame revolvers since the 1980s.......I would recommend one if you can find one...... and the one you are most likely to find, for the money you want to spend is a 3" Model 65.

I owned a 3" 586 and found it just too heavy to carry when I have a K-frame option.

I had a 3" 37..... but I never carried it.

I have 3" 66-3 and -4s. I've had the -3s since 1989.... when no one want them. With Spegel Boot grips it's my most carried revolver.... inside waistband in a Sparks Summer Special.

I also have a 3"60-10 ..... think; 5 shot .357, micro 686..... which is my "Kit Gun" at the cabin. (generally carried with +P.38s)

Several people have mentioned the Model 60 target versions. They are excellent guns. I have a Model 60-4 which is my hiking/camping/trail gun and the only J-frame that I carry with any regularity. Mine is a .38 Special, but for most of the places I tend to wander, that's plenty.



There is the Model 60-10, which is a .357. (And maybe an even later version?) Frankly, I have no desire what-so-ever to fire a .357 out of a J-frame.

While these would serve your purpose extremely well, they aren't made any more, are difficult to find and I doubt they will fall within your budget.

So I go back to my original recommendation of the Ruger Security Six.

Thanks guys for the reaponses.

Looking things over my first inclination is leaning towards the 3" round butt model 19 or 65.

Now I will have to find one to hold and even better shoot, to see if what looks good "on paper " and in pictures translates to my hand and feel in real life.

Has anyone done any data testing to determine the balistic difference between a 2.25 inch 38+p, a 2.25"- 357 mag, and a 3"- 357 mag?

Due to the short barrel, is there any real life performance gain for all the extra recoil and weight of a 357 with a 2.25" barrel? How much more gain in performance is there by moving up to 3" barrel in a 357?

This is based on my own test using a 2.125 model 640 and a 3" 65 and a 3" 60. My 3" 60 was about 5-10% faster than my 65 always. A 2.125" barrel has about 100fps less velocity over a similar 3" with the the same loads. You can plan on having about 200fps difference between similar weight 38spl and 357 mag loads in either barrel length.

With some of the J frames weighing in at 28 ounces, you may consider a 4" standard barreled Model 10. It weighs 30.5 ounces with the issued wood stocks. I carry one when dressed in a tux when doing musician work. With an old Bianchi suede belt clip IWB holster it hides and carries well even with beltless tux pants. One could be bought for half your budget which would give you money for good carry gear and some practice ammo.

The 3" Model 37 I posted a picture of in Post #3 weighs only 15 oz empty.

I have a Mika pocket holster for 3" J frames that works with cargo pants and the "Fire Hose" pants from Duluth Trading. You forget it's even there.

Here's another vote for the 640-1. Mine has the smoothest DA trigger of any Smith I own. Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shok are my current choice in .357 ammo for it. That being said, I am a fan three inch barrel revolvers. I feel that the "inch" of barrel from 2 to 3 adds more performance than the one from 3 to 4.

L to R: S&W 640-1 (.357 mag); S&W 36-1 (.38 special); Colt Police Positive Special (.38 special); Charter Arms "Bulldog" (.44 Special)

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	Bulldog serial 710914.jpg (146.1 KB, 236 views)

This 640 Pro, while not 3" (2 1/8), is quickly becoming my favorite. It's got enough weight to be really comfortable to shoot yet is easy to conceal.



This one's just plain fun! (an M36 from 1973)




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Pass it on.
Mark

There have been a lot of good suggestions here. I'm a big fan of 3" K-frames and the Full lug target sighted versions of the Model 60.
However, there's only one gun that fits both your requirements and price. Go find yourself a good used 2 3/4" Ruger Security Six . With a proper belt and holster, you'll hardly know its there.