J Frame Serial Number Question

rbg63 · #1 12-17-2017, 08:10 PM

I have a question. A friend of mine bought a 3" RB Model 36 in .38 Special.
It is a nice gun with two piece blue cardboard Bangor Punta box, accessories and original receipt from T,G&Y for $96.60. Price on box was $92 so tax must have been $4.60. I would take a few of those at that price today!

It has a pinned barrel and grips are stamped with the correct serial number.
We are trying to determine year of manufacture. Frame is marked Mod 36. No dashes.

Question is the serial number is 60JXXX and does not have a J prefix. It's pre 36-1 which puts it between 1957-1966. The 60 prefix is throwing me off.

Any ideas or thoughts? Thanks

armorer951 · #2 12-17-2017, 08:19 PM

I believe his gun falls into what's called the "floating J" period, which puts it in the 1971-72 time frame.

rbg63 · #3 12-17-2017, 08:23 PM

That makes sense but it is a Mod 36 not a 36-1. The standard catalog of S&W says 1967 was the change to the dash 1 series. Did they ever stamp something after 1967 with the mod 36 designation?

linde · #4 12-17-2017, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbg63

I have a question. A friend of mine bought a 3" RB Model 36 in .38 Special . . . We are trying to determine year of manufacture. Frame is marked Mod 36. No dashes.

Question is the serial number is 60JXXX and does not have a J prefix. It's pre 36-1 which puts it between 1957-1966. The 60 prefix is throwing me off.

Any ideas or thoughts? Thanks

Your Model 36 serial number is one from the "floating J" period of 1971-1972. When the J-prefix series reached J99999 the factory chose to shift to 1J1, 1J2 . . . etc until 1J9999 and then 2J1, 2J2 . . . etc.

Based on the number of combinations and permutations of the letter J plus five numeric digits, I would guestimate that 56JXXX would have been the mid-point at the end of 1971 . . . so I'm estimating your 60J is early 1972.

footnote: the model 36-1 (3" heavy barrel) was introduced in late 1966 but it did not replace the model 36. Unlike most engineering changes, the 36 and 36-1 were both produced from 1966 until 1988.

Russ

rbg63 · #5 12-17-2017, 08:28 PM

It is the thin barrel model with the skinny front sight.

linde · #6 12-17-2017, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbg63

It is the thin barrel model with the skinny front sight.

Yes, the 3" model 36 is the tapered barrel version . . . that means you could buy either a 3" tapered barrel Model 36 OR a 3" heavy barrel Model 36-1 during the period 1966 to 1988.

Russ

rbg63 · #7 12-17-2017, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linde

Your Model 36 serial number is one from the "floating J" period of 1971-1972. When the J-prefix series reached J99999 the factory chose to shift to 1J1, 1J2 . . . etc until 1J9999 and then 2J1, 2J2 . . . etc.

Based on the number of combinations and permutations of the letter J plus five numeric digits, I would guestimate that 54JXXX would have been the mid-point at the end of 1971 . . . so I'm estimating your 60J is early 1972.

footnote: the model 36-1 (3" heavy barrel) was introduced in late 1966 but it did not replace the model 36. Unlike most engineering changes, the 36 and 36-1 were both produced from 1966 until 1988.

Thank you Linde

Russ

Thank you Linde!!
I was not aware that they were produce simultaneously.
You guys always come through. That's why I lurk here. Y'all know stuff.

BTW. I told my friend that ya'll would figure this out in short order.

I didn't know it would be less than 20 min!!

JP@AK · #8 12-17-2017, 10:57 PM

The Chiefs Special has an odd model number system.

Beginning with the -1, they maintained a distinction between standard and heavy barrels. The -2 and -3 replaced the "no dash" and -1 in 1988.

Then, the -4 and -5 were unique to the LadySmith variant, tapered and heavy barrels, respectively. But the earliest LadySmith revolvers were marked as -3.

The -6 was an odd duck, in that it had target sights and a ribbed barrel (the rib was an innovation - the CS never had a barrel rib until then (1989).

The -7 had the standard barrel and the -8 had the heavy barrel, beginning in 1990 (note the inversion of the odd and even dash numbers).

-9 brought the IL, MIM and +P ratings, etc. My interest completely evaporates at this point.

iskra · #9 12-18-2017, 02:11 AM

Sorry for horning in! Just noted the serial number material concerning Models 36 & 36-1 presnted here. A bit... strange! Moreover, confusing.
May I have an interpretation concerning my Model 36 (or perhaps 36-1. Working from file pix here & such nicety not noted). The relevant SN is 611Jxx. As visible in below photos, appears a heavy barrel model there. Does that automatically indicate a dash one?
An approximate production date would also be helpful.
Thanks!
iskra

murphydog · #10 12-18-2017, 06:33 AM

Yes, a pinned bull barrel 3" model 36 can only be a -1. Likely produced in 1972 but may have have shipped until 1973 depending on where it landed on the inventory shelf. Enjoy!

linde · #11 12-18-2017, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iskra

. . . May I have an interpretation concerning my Model 36 (or perhaps 36-1. Working from file pix here & such nicety not noted). The relevant SN is 611Jxx. As visible in below photos, appears a heavy barrel model there. Does that automatically indicate a dash one?
An approximate production date would also be helpful . . .

Given the profile of the front sight blade, it may very well be a straight Model 36. Below are pictures contrasting the two barrel types . . . the 36 is in front or on the right . . . the 36-1 is in the rear or on the left. Note the long, gentle slope to the front sight on the 36 and the shorter slope to the 36-1. The contrast in barrel thickness from the business end is even more dramatic.

I tend to prefer the heavy barrel and square butt for natural point and aim as well as control . . . but they're both great revolvers. Enjoy,

Russ

P.S. murphydog's date is spot on

Skeetr57 · #12 12-18-2017, 12:08 PM

JP@AK made an error in post 8 above. All 3" mod 36 revolvers have ribbed barrels, whether standard or heavy barrel

JP@AK · #13 12-18-2017, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeetr57

JP@AK made an error in post 8 above. All 3" mod 36 revolvers have ribbed barrels, whether standard or heavy barrel

Well, maybe so. I stand corrected. When I spoke of the absence of the "ribbed" barrel, I was thinking of the grooved rib, like on a K-22 or K-38. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think the -6 had grooves, which would be normal with target sights. I've never owned a -6, so I'm not sure of that. Can anyone enlighten me?

two-bit cowboy · #14 12-18-2017, 02:21 PM

Howdy Jack,

Here are side shots of my 36-6. Photos don't show it, but the sight and barrel are ribbed, yes.

Also, in your post #8 there are a few bits askew.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP@AK

The Chiefs Special has an odd model number system.

Then, the -4 and -5 were unique to the LadySmith variant, tapered and heavy barrels, respectively. But the earliest LadySmith revolvers were marked as -3.

-9 brought the IL, MIM and +P ratings, etc.

I have 1989 Lady Smiths 36-2 (2") and 36-3 (3") -- 3rd photo

My 36-9 is a 1998 model (no IL); the model was discontinued in 1999 -- last two photos.

The 36-10 came out in 2001 with the IL -- I don't have one.

JP@AK · #15 12-18-2017, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by two-bit cowboy

in your post #8 there are a few bits askew.

I'm happy get the corrections. Thanks!

Quote:

Here are side shots of my 36-6. Photos don't show it, but the sight and barrel are ribbed, yes.

Ribbed with grooves? As you say, the photos don't show this feature.

Quote:

I have 1989 Lady Smith 36-2 (2") and 36-3 (3")

Yes. That was a mistype. I bought one with the 2" barrel for my daughter's 16th birthday as soon as they came out. It was a -2. She's in her 40s now and still has it, still in excellent condition with box and all the accessories.

Quote:

My 36-9 is a 1998 model (no IL); the model was discontinued in 1999

The 36-10 came out in 2001 with the IL -- I don't have one

I see now that I misread the SCSW on this. I don't own anything that new, and likely never will.

Again, thanks for all the new (to me) information. Much appreciated.

charlie sherrill · #16 12-18-2017, 04:49 PM

I've got a mod 38-0 with XXXJX. X=a number.

linde · #17 12-18-2017, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie sherrill

I've got a mod 38-0 with XXXJX. X=a number.

Yep . . . Models 36, 37, 38, 49 & 50 all used a J prefix and needed to "float" the J in their serial numbers during those years.

But not all J-frame models used a J prefix. The Models 40 & 42 used an L prefix. . . the Models 32, 33, 60 & 651 used an R prefix, and the Models 30 & 31 used an H prefix. To the best of my knowledge, however, none of these models ever generated enough production to need to "float" their prefixes.

Russ

JP@AK · #18 12-18-2017, 10:11 PM

Russ
Just for the fun of it, I'll throw in one you forgot - the M prefix, on the .22/32s (both Kit Gun and Target). Models 34-1 & 35-1, and above.

linde · #19 12-18-2017, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP@AK

Russ
Just for the fun of it, I'll throw in one you forgot - the M prefix, on the .22/32s (both Kit Gun and Target). Models 34-1 & 35-1, and above.

And don't leave out the Model 63 which also uses the M prefix!

Russ

JP@AK · #20 12-18-2017, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linde

And don't leave out the Model 63 which also uses the M prefix!

Yes. Also a Kit Gun. Next time I open the safe door, my Model 63 is going to jump out of its factory box and bite my hand, for forgetting about it.

iskra · #21 12-19-2017, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linde

Given the profile of the front sight blade, it may very well be a straight Model 36. Below are pictures contrasting the two barrel types . . . the 36 is in front or on the right . . . the 36-1 is in the rear or on the left. Note the long, gentle slope to the front sight on the 36 and the shorter slope to the 36-1. The contrast in barrel thickness from the business end is even more dramatic.

I tend to prefer the heavy barrel and square butt for natural point and aim as well as control . . . but they're both great revolvers. Enjoy,

Russ

P.S. murphydog's date is spot on

***
Thanks kindly for the wealth of information contained in the various posts here and prompt responses to my query! Particular thanks to linde for the great photo illustrations! My referenced Smith “J”, Chief Special not before me. However, based on the size of the “bull” rib shown, from my file pix and recollection; happily almost certain mine a ‘normal’ Model 36; and that… ‘No bull!’

The very concept of wide rib heavy barrel, reminiscent of the “Heavy Barrel, Smith K-38, introduced as I recall, in the early fifties. Such, as the firm sought to equalize weight between the K22, K32 & K38 trio. Such context, making some sense.

Yet in a pocket pistol…? For me, conjuring the notion… “Is that a Model 36-1 in your pocket… or you just happy to see me?” Yet seriously, having ‘packed’ officially for many years, the notion of a weighty bull 3” barrel on a “J” frame Chief Special... something of a non-sequitur! (linde, ‘reasonable minds’ do differ here.) The ‘bull’ concept, rather belying the slim, trim nature and compact portability of these ‘J guns’.
Just my take

two-bit cowboy · #22 12-19-2017, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP@AK

Ribbed with grooves? As you say, the photos don't show this feature.

Yes. I'll see what the morning's weather brings and might be able to manage a photo of the top of the gun out on the deck.

linde · #23 12-19-2017, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iskra

. . .Yet in a pocket pistol…? . . . having ‘packed’ officially for many years, the notion of a weighty bull 3” barrel on a “J” frame Chief Special... something of a non-sequitur! (linde, ‘reasonable minds’ do differ here.) The ‘bull’ concept, rather belying the slim, trim nature and compact portability of these ‘J guns’. Just my take

I completely agree . . . the 3" heavy barrel Chief is not a good choice for a pocket gun. However, with a good holster, belt and cover garment, it can still make for good concealed carry.

Russ

two-bit cowboy · #24 12-20-2017, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP@AK

Ribbed with grooves? As you say, the photos don't show this feature.

Here's a shot of the 36-6's top, Jack. This should clear the air.

JP@AK · #25 12-20-2017, 01:47 PM

Excellent, Bob. Thank you very much!