S&W model 15 snubnose with italian proofmarks

[MasnarT]

Hi all, bought it today. Wanted to share.

First time to see italian proofmarks on S&W (model 15-3)

-1st is AB i think for the year 1976
- 2nd is PSF (finito? Tested and approved?)
-3rd and 4th looks identical. like the same proofmark, 1 on the barrel and 1 on the frame)

[MasnarT]

Hold on!
Catch another italian proofmark on the cylinder (a provisional Gardone proofmark)

Check this out

Italy

[bananaman]

Welcome to the FORUM! A 15 snub has eluded me for quite a while. Settled for a 10-5 2", RB. Bob

[diecidecimi]

Ciao! I can help you from Italy...
PSF , under a star is "Prova definitiva con Polvere Senza Fumo". Test with no smoke gunpowder
AB , as you stated, corresponding to the year of the test in Gardone Val Trompia: 1976

The third, on the barrel and the frame, is the proof mark of Gardone: two crossing rifles under a star

[MasnarT]

Woow thanks a lot for your help.
But why a S&W firearm has the italian proofmarks ??

[Narragansett]

Finito I believe means finished. I do not know the context with which it is used, but I have that stamped in a 1990 Perazzi O/U shotgun

[leonardocarrillo]

All weapons marketed in Europe must pass through the test bench of the country in which they are sold, the revolver in question was sold in Italy and, unsurprisingly, it bears the stamps of the Italian test bench.

[ischia]

Originally Posted by diecidecimi

Ciao! I can help you from Italy...
PSF , under a star is "Prova definitiva con Polvere Senza Fumo". Test with no smoke gunpowder
AB , as you stated, corresponding to the year of the test in Gardone Val Trompia: 1976

The third, on the barrel and the frame, is the proof mark of Gardone: two crossing rifles under a star

Why would this S&W be tested in Gardone Val Trompia. One place of several for testing in Italy or the only one? I've collected Beretta SXS's for years They are engraved Gardone Val Trompia on the outside (more than a proof mark).

Stefano

[Borderboss]

Is that a crack in the sideplate in your fourth photo?

[MasnarT]

Thanks for your help guys.

No the gun is in good condition, no cracks in the sideplate, its a smudge. I called him little Jeff.

Jeff is clean now, wearing a new set of grips, and ready to be with me tomorrow morning!

[diecidecimi]

Originally Posted by ischia

Why would this S&W be tested in Gardone Val Trompia. One place of several for testing in Italy or the only one? I've collected Beretta SXS's for years They are engraved Gardone Val Trompia on the outside (more than a proof mark).

Stefano

It is very simple. In Europe firearms have to be tested in the National bench before the sale. In Belgium = Liège, in Germany = Ulm, in Italy = Gardone Val Trompia, and so on.
Every bench has his own proof marks, indicating the bench, the date, the type of standard test for every type of gun, sometimes the inspector....
The Beretta engraving you describe is not a proof mark, but simply the name of the town where the factory is. Gardone is the main town in val Trompia (Trompia Valley, where a lot of firearms factories are located: Sabatti, Pedersoli, Tanfoglio, Beretta, Poli, Zoli, Rizzini, Fausti......) .

[ischia]

One should not miss the Beretta factory there leave your passport at the door Antiques/museum and factory tour. The best in the world of classic SxS and over under guns are produced in this small part of bell Italia. I took along some S&W enlarged (poster size) photos of some of my collection,S&W catalogs too. They were well received at the Beretta factory. Got a special one on one tour of the engraving/finishing area. Each master in a seperate room. SO7 up and custom grades. Each master had his own espresso machine close by.


Stefano

[Absalom]

Originally Posted by diecidecimi

It is very simple. In Europe firearms have to be tested in the National bench before the sale. In Belgium = Liège, in Germany = Ulm, in Italy = Gardone Val Trompia, and so on.
.

To add one thing to this:

Currently, about 15 states mostly in Europe, including all three states listed above but also the UAE (because of the Caracal-Haenel/Suhl connection), are members of C.I.P., which stands for a long French term I don‘t remember.

It‘s an international agreement about proofing standards, and member states recognize each other‘s proofs.

So FNs or Berettas sold in Germany will not have Ulm proofs.

In case of outside imports, like US guns, the importer in the first C.I.P. country gets them proofed. If that‘s a distributor who also ships to other C.I.P. countries, there won‘t be any additional proofs. There have been quite a few S&W revolvers coming back out of Germany with Belgian proofs; apparently there was a S&W distributor there in the 70s/80s.

[diecidecimi]

CIP is for Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'épreuve des armes à feu portative (Permanent International Commission for testing portatile firearms), and every weapon has to be individually tested in proprietary benchproofs of the Nations that adopt this standard, somewhat different in respect to American one (SAAMI) , where every manufacturer responds by himself. Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI)

[VaTom]

Regarding the AB inside the square mark. Likely the date. I have a Beretta 92f made in Italy. The date code for those made in Italy (Two digit aplha in box) is stamped on the right side of trigger guard. The mark on my Beretta is AN for 1985. Somewhere on line you can find the decipher code of that mark.

Nice Model 15.

[diecidecimi]

Originally Posted by VaTom

Regarding the AB inside the square mark. Likely the date. I have a Beretta 92f made in Italy. The date code for those made in Italy (Two digit aplha in box) is stamped on the right side of trigger guard. The mark on my Beretta is AN for 1985. Somewhere on line you can find the decipher code of that mark.

Yes: you can find it in several sites. Here an example:www.Tiropratico.com® - DATARE UN ARMA