4" Barreled, Round Butt Combat Magnums

RKmesa · #1 09-06-2021, 05:47 PM

I finally got around to photographing a couple of round butt P&R Combat Magnums. I would assume that the frame on this 66-1 and this 19-4 started out with 2.5" barrels. Some entrepreneurial gunsmith swapped the 2.5" barrels for the 4" ones. Since you don't run across this configuration very often, these ones are probably staying in my safe.

They are a bit on the "weird" but cool side, and I love them.

I'd sure like to see the guns that they swapped barrels with, namely, a couple of square butt 2.5" barreled Combat Magnums.

Thanks for letting me share,

rbmac52 · #2 09-06-2021, 06:29 PM

Very nice!

kwill1911 · #3 09-06-2021, 07:24 PM

I have looked for that configuration for years without success. I think it is a great combination. Too cool!

CH4 · #4 09-06-2021, 07:26 PM

Definitely started life as 2.5 inchers, but very clean conversion.

kwill1911 · #5 09-06-2021, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH4

Definitely started life as 2.5 inchers, but very clean conversion.

Probably, but both the Navy and the FBI have bought Model 19s with 4" barrels and round butts. IIRC, there were a few overruns sold to commercial distributors.

RKmesa · #6 09-07-2021, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwill1911

Probably, but both the Navy and the FBI have bought Model 19s with 4" barrels and round butts. IIRC, there were a few overruns sold to commercial distributors.

Kevin:

I don't know anything about the Navy and FBI RB Model 19s, but for reference the Serial numbers on the two above are:

75K4288 for the 19-4 (which has a combat hammer, a smooth wide trigger, and a white outline rear sight, with the obvious red ramp)...

... and 89K1429 for the 66-1 (standard trigger and hammer, with a plain black rear sight and the red ramp front sight)

The modifications are well done on each of them. I may need to reach out to the powers that know and make sure that they were after-factory barrel swaps.

CH4 · #7 09-07-2021, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwill1911

Probably, but both the Navy and the FBI have bought Model 19s with 4" barrels and round butts. IIRC, there were a few overruns sold to commercial distributors.

Weren’t Navy guns stamped? A letter would splain things...

kwill1911 · #8 09-07-2021, 08:40 AM

Thanks for the numbers, Richard. The Navy guns were shipped in the mid- to late-1960s. SN range K544000 to K624000. Marked "O.N.I." (early) or "N.I.S." (late) but I'm not sure all of them were marked. The overruns were not marked. Some of the overrun frames were given 3 inch barrels.

BAM-BAM · #9 09-07-2021, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwill1911

I have looked for that configuration for years without success. I think it is a great combination. Too cool!

Me too........ luckily; I lucked into some 3" 66s back in the 80s.

I had a 4" 686 no dash and a 4"617 round butted back in the 80s; never found a 4" 66 with the serial number in the right place to round butt.

Still would love to find some round butt 4" K-frame .357s ; till then it's square butts with Spegel Boot Grips for concealed carry

F224 · #10 09-08-2021, 09:06 PM

I've seen a lot of square butt to round but conversions to both K frame S&W and Ruger GA-34H's. For many years there were even jigs made for them for gunsmiths.

sigp220.45 · #11 09-08-2021, 09:26 PM

I took an FBI 4” RB “ONI” marked Model 19 to Quantico for Firearms Instructor school around 1995. The gun vault in New Orleans had several available for just that purpose. They all had magnas and Pachmayr grip adapters.

Mine was dialed in perfectly with wadcutters. That thing would shoot.

Muley Gil · #12 09-08-2021, 09:44 PM

When it came time for me to go to the police academy, my PD issued me 500 rounds of .38 special wadcutters. My duty gun at the time was a .44 Special & I didn't have the funds to either buy or reload 500 rounds of .44.

I bought a 4" blue M19 and did a few modifications. I did an action job, removed the trigger serrations, narrowed the mainspring and round butted it. I also installed Pachmayr compact grips.

The firearms instructor at the academy really liked it (except for the narrowed mainspring). I must not have done too bad a job on it. I shot NRA Expert with it.

Unfortunately, an ex-wife wound up with it.

CH4 · #13 09-08-2021, 11:23 PM

Did the 4” ONI RB guns have the full length rear sight base?

kwill1911 · #14 09-09-2021, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH4

Did the 4” ONI RB guns have the full length rear sight base?

Yes, I think so.

Truckman · #15 09-09-2021, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

Unfortunately, an ex-wife wound up with it.

Exactly why I've sworn off allowing any more of those into my life...

Ex-wives that is...

...Ben

AZretired · #16 09-09-2021, 09:42 AM

I don’t believe in Safe Queens. If it’s worth owning, shoot it! Especially if it’s an after market conversion

snw19_357 · #17 09-09-2021, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH4

Did the 4” ONI RB guns have the full length rear sight base?

No, they had the shorter square butt rear sight leaf and top strap profile of the square butt Model 19's.

(pics to follow)

kwill1911 · #18 09-09-2021, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snw19_357

No, they had the shorter square butt rear sight leaf and top strap profile of the square butt Model 19's.

(pics to follow)

Eagerly awaiting!

snw19_357 · #19 09-09-2021, 03:15 PM

Here you go.
It's not ONI stamped but is one of the frames leftover from 1965.
Shipped in January, 1968 and the diamond center magnas are numbered to it.

4" Barreled, Round Butt Combat Magnums - Pinned and Recessed-19-2_k6227xx_rh-jpg

4" Barreled, Round Butt Combat Magnums - Pinned and Recessed-19-2_k6227xx_rh-jpg

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4" Barreled, Round Butt Combat Magnums - Pinned and Recessed-19-2_k6227xx_lhc-jpg

4" Barreled, Round Butt Combat Magnums - Pinned and Recessed-19-2_k6227xx_lh-jpg

rbmac52 · #20 09-09-2021, 03:55 PM

That is a beaut!

handejector · #21 09-09-2021, 03:59 PM

Richard,
Great minds do run alike!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKmesa

They are a bit on the "weird" but cool side, and I love them.

I think weird is a bit harsh. Cool they are.
I got this one sometime around 1980. A deputy I knew took the Armorer's course at the Factory and built it while there. I do not know if he bought it there or built it on his own gun. As soon as he built it, he sent it off to Trijicon for night sights and was going to carry it as a duty weapon. He was young and married with kids, so not long after getting it back, he needed money and traded it to my partner. My partner had no great feeling about it and sold or traded it to me- can't remember.

It had a really good action and I liked the gun.
Edited to add-
It is a Mod 19-4 that Roy says shipped in July, 1979.

I did the following to it-
1- Full action job with oil stones. NO springs were cut or weakened or replaced.
2- Ground the serrations off the trigger. Serrated triggers are the biggest mistake S&W ever made. I was big on DA shooting, and the serrations hurt after awhile!
3- Bobbed the hammer. See 2 above.

4- Note the bottom flange on the thumblatch is gone so it doesn't catch empties.
5- Look close and you'll see the corners of the rear sight blade are beveled. I was prone to carrying guns stuck in my belt when young. Those corners hurt when the gun was under your shirt.

The night sights consist of a bar below the rear notch and a bead in the ramp. They are dead by decades. I wonder if Trijicon still does these and would replace them?

LONG before I ever heard the term "Boot Grips", I made a pair for this gun out of Herrett's Shooting Stars. They were dandy for concealability, but punishing for shooting magnums. I'll see if I can find them. 11-8-21- Edited to add- Found 'em- SEE Post 47
I had Keith make a better pair of small grips.

It's been a comfort many a time.

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4" Barreled, Round Butt Combat Magnums - Pinned and Recessed-img_0504-jpg

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.....................

Doug M. · #22 09-09-2021, 10:09 PM

I am pretty sure those old night sights can be re-lamped. It might take a bit of internet research, but I am pretty sure the job can be done.
I had BMCM convert my 4" M66 (-3?) to RB. For my hands, at least, RB is a much better configuration. If I am in a situation in which a revolver is good choice for carry, that one is my preference. When my Marlin 1894 is finally done and modified, that combination will likely be my primary cary system for travel. Revolvers and lever guns are far less likely to draw negative attention if seen or used.

Tim357 · #23 09-09-2021, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwill1911

I have looked for that configuration for years without success. I think it is a great combination. Too cool!

Easy enough to convert to round butt. I've done a couple

RKmesa · #24 09-10-2021, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handejector

I got this one sometime around 1980. A deputy I knew took the Armorer's course at the Factory and built it while there. ...I had Keith make a better pair of small grips. It's been a comfort many a time.

.....................

Lee:

That is a beautiful Combat Magnum - I LOVE IT!

Were it mine, it would be at Nelson Ford's having him remove the expired front sight tube and having him install in its place, a gold wire with a beaded rear face (McGivern style).

Thanks for sharing,

Muley Gil · #25 09-10-2021, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim357

Easy enough to convert to round butt. I've done a couple

Me too. The biggest problem is finding a revolver where the round butting doesn't interfere with the serial number.

shell627 · #26 09-10-2021, 04:35 PM

Back around 1976 I was at a state range outside Detroit shooting my first handgun.It was a ww2 Browning high power.The only other shooter on the range came over to talk looked at my high power and told me the year it was made and explained the German army marks on it.The man had several 4 inch smiths a model 29 a 19 I think a model 28 and one other I can not remember.He told me about having them all round butted to make them easier to carry . We talked for awhile and he inferred he was in law enforcement. I remember his hair was a little long and a big scruffy mustache.I didn’t ask where he worked but he had some fine tools to work with.

Jim Watson · #27 09-10-2021, 04:53 PM

I had the 2.5" barrel of a M19 round butt replaced with a 4".
I did not consider the swap a success, I'd have been better satisfied to trade for a square butt.
Doesn't mean I am glad it was stolen, though.

Similarly, I was smitten with the 1911 Bobtail alteration until I had it done. But did not like the result and did not keep it.

UFGator · #28 09-12-2021, 02:21 PM

I have seen several of the FBI "ONI" marked 4" RB 19s. Circa 1973, they were issued to SWAT team members. I guess by the time you got yours out of the vault, they had been relegated to history. I wondered what happened to them?

The FBI FO here had a bunch of M1 Garands. When I was in Miami, the FBI office there had quite a few Thompson SMGs and they took them to the USCG base and had them cut up. That was in 1976.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigp220.45

I took an FBI 4” RB “ONI” marked Model 19 to Quantico for Firearms Instructor school around 1995. The gun vault in New Orleans had several available for just that purpose. They all had magnas and Pachmayr grip adapters.

Mine was dialed in perfectly with wadcutters. That thing would shoot.

kwill1911 · #29 09-12-2021, 02:25 PM

One of my grail guns is an ONI marked Model 19. I'm sure they were all destroyed but for 1 or 2 of them that managed to escape. I've seen exactly one "in the wild" and it had been parkerized.

UFGator · #30 09-12-2021, 03:17 PM

That is a grail gun. We had Model 19s with 4" bbls, a few, in addition to the 2.5" bbls. many. For some reason, our armorers put some kind of butt-ugly teflon finish on the 4" guns. I have no idea why. I have always wondered what happened to the Model 19 2.5" I was issued. I guess they gave them to another agency, destroyed them or possibly a foreign country. Our revolvers were not marked to indicate the agency.

austintexas · #31 09-12-2021, 06:11 PM

I bought my 19-5 round butt years ago, Picked it up at a San Antonio gunshow on Airport. It's fairly late, It has an ABC serial number and doesn't look converted. It does have a smooth trigger, not pinned or recessed, no red insert. I think the AYZ puts it around '88. about 98+%. The closest thing I can find in the standard catalog is 680 pieces shipped March of '88 to the U.S. Dept of State, prefix AYYxxxx
SWCA 892

gerhard1 · #32 09-12-2021, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAM-BAM

Me too........ luckily; I lucked into some 3" 66s back in the 80s.

I had a 4" 686 no dash and a 4"617 round butted back in the 80s; never found a 4" 66 with the serial number in the right place to round butt.

Still would love to find some round butt 4" K-frame .357s ; till then it's square butts with Spegel Boot Grips for concealed carry

Here's mine. Not for sale, just an FYI

StrawHat · #33 09-13-2021, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handejector

… I did the following to it-
1- Full action job with oil stones. NO springs were cut or weakened or replaced.
2- Ground the serrations off the trigger. Serrated triggers are the biggest mistake S&W ever made. I was big on DA shooting, and the serrations hurt after awhile!
3- Bobbed the hammer. See 2 above.

4- Note the bottom flange on the thumblatch is gone so it doesn't catch empties.
5- Look close and you'll see the corners of the rear sight blade are beveled.

It's been a comfort many a time.

.....................

Lee,

Nice bit of customization, well executed. I have done similar to a couple of N frames.

Kevin

Doug M. · #34 09-13-2021, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austintexas

I bought my 19-5 round butt years ago, Picked it up at a San Antonio gunshow on Airport. It's fairly late, It has an ABC serial number and doesn't look converted. It does have a smooth trigger, not pinned or recessed, no red insert. I think the AYZ puts it around '88. about 98+%. The closest thing I can find in the standard catalog is 680 pieces shipped March of '88 to the U.S. Dept of State, prefix AYYxxxx
SWCA 892

*
Deep in the recesses of my alleged memory, I recall reading about some similar revolvers that went to DSS, which is part of State.

BAM-BAM · #35 09-13-2021, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerhard1

Here's mine. Not for sale, just an FYI

Who made that holster? I have one like it for a 3" 60-10 micro-686... got it at a local gunshop but mine has no maker ID.

gerhard1 · #36 09-13-2021, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAM-BAM

Who made that holster? I have one like it for a 3" 60-10 micro-686... got it at a local gunshop but mine has no maker ID.

F.I.S.T., Brooklyn, NY.

It's an old picture of my most customized gun, a S&W Model 65 that started life out as a square butt. A trip to Mag-Na-Port for rounding the butt and porting the barrel, an action-job, including making it DAO, gives this little gem the smoothest action ever. 5000+ rounds of 38 special helped as well.

She's been around the block a few times, but she's still beautiful.

JohnRippert · #37 09-14-2021, 10:39 AM

Here is one of the AYY serial State Department guns. Got it on Gunbroker as the only bidder a few years back for under $500.

austintexas · #38 09-23-2021, 12:18 AM

Someone saw my post about the State Dept round butt m-19 I had and Pmed me for pictures. I said send a number and I would. Time passed and I have been busy trying to get ready for Tulsa. Well I somehow lost that individuals information and have been looking everywhere I can think of, but no luck. So If you see this, send the information again, I promise not to loose it again.
AustinTexas

THREEDFLYER · #39 09-27-2021, 09:17 AM

Very nice conversions, thanks for sharing!

rincar · #40 09-27-2021, 11:15 AM

I seen one of those type of S&W Model 19's. In the holster of a Reserve Deputy. I asked him about it and he told me what it was. That was in the 1990's. I have not seen one since.

RKmesa · #41 11-05-2021, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handejector

...LONG before I ever heard the term "Boot Grips", I made a pair for this gun out of Herrett's Shooting Stars. They were dandy for concealability, but punishing for shooting magnums. I'll see if I can find them.

Lee:

Did you ever find a photo of those Herret's "boot grips"?

Jim Watson · #42 11-05-2021, 02:15 PM

I had a 2.5" M19 rebarrelled to produce a 4" round butt.
I was not as thrilled as I expected to be and kept trying different grips to make it handle more like 4" SB. Nice Andy Cannon action job, only took two trips to his shop to get it to work.
I do wish I had it back, maybe the theft report will pay off some day.

Norton 750 · #43 11-05-2021, 02:43 PM

I am such a fan of my three inch round butt 65 I have been looking for a four inch round butt pre lock 19 or 66 for ages...well done.

Retired W4 · #44 11-05-2021, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austintexas

I bought my 19-5 round butt years ago, Picked it up at a San Antonio gunshow on Airport. It's fairly late, It has an ABC serial number and doesn't look converted. It does have a smooth trigger, not pinned or recessed, no red insert. I think the AYZ puts it around '88. about 98+%. The closest thing I can find in the standard catalog is 680 pieces shipped March of '88 to the U.S. Dept of State, prefix AYYxxxx
SWCA 892

I have a State Dept. -5 but it is a 2 1/2", matt blue. ANR prefix.

Nedroe · #45 11-05-2021, 07:00 PM

a 4 inch, factory round butt, 19-7 until I got hold of it.

I've seen 2 others on GB at different times.
Not P&R, but a damn good shooter.

Ned

RKmesa · #46 11-05-2021, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

I had a 2.5" M19 rebarrelled to produce a 4" round butt. I was not as thrilled as I expected to be and kept trying different grips to make it handle more like 4" SB. Nice Andy Cannon action job, only took two trips to his shop to get it to work. I do wish I had it back, maybe the theft report will pay off some day.

Sad to hear about the theft...

handejector · #47 11-08-2021, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKmesa

Quote:

Originally Posted by handejector

...LONG before I ever heard the term "Boot Grips", I made a pair for this gun out of Herrett's Shooting Stars. They were dandy for concealability, but punishing for shooting magnums. I'll see if I can find them.

Lee:

Did you ever find a photo of those Herret's "boot grips"?

I did not have pics of them, but I did find the grips and took some for ya. Wasn't sure I still had 'em.

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