No question, just informational. I was going over a Model 36 that I have owned for many years. No diamond by the SN but it does show up in other places. S w/diamond on rear of cylinder, S w/diamond on barrel flat above 1st two SN digits, just diamond high on left grip frame and R-S on lower left grip frame with 11 78 right below. Standard refinish Nov. 1978. You can tell the gun had been through the wringer before going back to S&W but, these days it works like it's never been out of the box, probably better. I'm sure they did not put the diamond on the butt because they just did not have room for it. A 60+ year old war horse is still kicking.

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The factory Re-work mark is a 5 point open star, not a diamond. It was used until at least 1975 and was stamped behind the serial number on the butt. To my knowledge there has been no equivalent mark used by S&W since the star was discontinued. I do believe they do still stamp a service date under the left stock on the front strap.

You say the gun is a Model 36, yet it is not blue or, nickel. Has it been chrome plated since the indicated factory re-finish? it sure looks like chrome or stainless, but that would be a Model 60 of course. The R-S mark on the frame signifies Refinish-Standard, which is blue. An alternate would be R-B, again for blue. If the Gun had been refinished in Nickel the mark would be R-N. Hence the questions about an after-market plating job in Chrome. Something just does not add up about this gun. Did it have this finish when you bought it? If you bought it like this it was factory refinished in blue, then sent off for a commercial hard chrome job before you bought it.

Look at the SN under the barrel if it has one, SN that is. If it has a B or N in front of that SN the gun was originally blued or nickeled when it originally left the factory. Often snubbies don't have the barrel SN, especially J Frames.

You will often see the chrome referred to as "hard chrome". All chrome is quite hard, the "hard" in this case refers to the plating being applied directly to the base metal as opposed to decorative chrome which is applied over a copper "under-strike, or "triple chrome plated" that has the copper, then a layer of nickel, and finally the chrome. This is referred to as a "Bumper job" since this is how chromed bumpers and auto trim was plated. This is inferior to "Hard" chrome and frequently peels.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

The gun has not been plated. The lighting for the photograph might be throwing you off. The markings on this model 36 no dash are just as I described them. The SCSW page 24 and page 495 mentions in detail the diamond.

And it's definitely not a flat latch model 60.

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A B followed by a diamond indicates a refinish in bright blue. An S followed by a diamond would indicate a refinish in standard blue (as does R-S).

I have owned several guns refinished in the mid-60s and none of them had a star stamped on them like the guns prior to WW II.

Bill

here are the other marks that are on this gun. No extra marks on butt, just SN.

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Standard refinish, definitely.

Bill

I have a .38/44 Outdoorsman pre-Model 23. It shipped from the factory in June of 1956.
There is a B◊ stamped in the ejector rod shroud and an O and S along with the numbers 956 stamped on the grip frame under the stocks.

I read that as a gun that probably left the factory finished in S&W's service/brushed blue and shortly thereafter went back to the factory for a refinish in Bright Blue. Sound about right ?

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Sounds absolutely correct for your .38/44 Outdoorsman. Great looking gun!!!

Bill

I agree, a factory standard blue refinish. Just FYI, I wrote the section you refer to above. I've not seen diamonds placed high on the grip frame in the location shown in your photo. And I have a hard time seeing just a diamond. If it's a diamond it appears to be stamped over something else. Maybe an S?

Can you make out more detail with magnification? It could be the mark of the service person that worked on your gun. Could you take a close up photo?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Well, my old eyes saw it as a diamond but a closer look shows differently.

Best shot I could take for now. It does look like an over stamp of something.

Tom

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Thanks!

Looks like a double struck R. Maybe another indicating refinish mark but one I haven't seen before.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Here's one we shouldn't have to guess at, but---------------------

Sometime, later 1950's, I bought my very first brand new in the box S&W---a 5-screw K-22---wide rib, satin blue (the funky finish). What I wanted was the same gun, but "bright blue"----and I could have had it---special order, 6 month wait. Needless to say, there's no way in hell a dumb kid gun nut is going to wait 6 months------for anything.

So---time passes, and I'm growing increasingly displeased with the funky finish. The solution is obvious, and two or three weeks later I have an absolutely beautiful wide rib K-22 with a brand new bright blue finish. (As an aside, just because we're getting to the point of deciphering the service markings, here's what I asked them to do: Refinish in Bright Blue, and have their very best craftsman go through the gun, and make it as perfect as can be.)

Okay, the gun's back; the cost is next to nothing; and I have no idea what, if anything might have been done to make it as perfect as can be. More time passes---a lot of it. It finally dawns on me this gun has no turn line. (Actually it does----very faint, maybe 3/32" long, in each lead into a cylinder stop notch----------so that's what they did to make it perfect---messed with the cylinder stop timing.

Here are the service marks on the gun S<> on the left grip frame, 4 60 on the left grip frame, S<> on the cylinder (under the ejector star), and S<> on the barrel flat. I eventually decided the S's on the several pieces were instructions to the finishing department to return those pieces to the Service Department. I decided the <> mark meant Bright Blue.

And so--------------?

Ralph Tremaine

You're right about the S. The <> only indicated the major parts that were affected by a rework or refinsh.

Once the bright blue became the standard finish again about the mid 1950s, there was no longer a mark for bright blue. The large B for the bright blue option was only used under the barrel during the ~10 post war years when satin blue was standard.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I have a 44 Magnum, S147213, and a .357 Combat Magnum, K260005, both shipped in January 1956 to Pete Kuhlhoff of Argosy Magazine. Each has a B stamped in the extractor rod shroud and on the lower left hand corner of the grip frame. Probably two of the last guns to be so marked.

Bill

Thank you, Sir!

My interpretation (of S) came about simply because it made some sense----this stuff came to Finishing from the Service Department----not the regular production folks. The only other thing that came to mind was the need for some sort of instruction as to what was to be done with it. In view of the fact that instruction very well could have been transmitted via some means other than a permanent marking on the pieces also makes sense---e.g., the nature of the container it was in. They did what they did at any given point in time because it was deemed to be foolproof----------right up until they learned it wasn't. Then they went to Plan B----right up until the need for Plan C came to be------with Plan D waiting in the wings.

Ralph Tremaine

I presume there was a small B in the shroud spaced away to the front of the SN, and a large B spaced away behind the SN. The B on the grip frame left side does denote the bright blue as well as under the extractor star. Because the B on the grip frame (right side) for standard blue guns went away during and after the war.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Correct the S (standing for Service Dept) didn't give instructions of what to do other thantelling the bluing dept where the barrel was to be returned to. When sent to the bluing dept all they could do was blue it.

During the days of the Outside service dept (a separate building off site), an O was used instead of the S.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

In the shroud of both revolvers is one large B (on its side) stamped well behind the serial number. For 5-screw 44 Magnums finished in nickel, there is an N (same size as the serial number characters) stamped after the S in the serial number and an N stamped on the left side of the grip frame. There is probably an N stamped on the cylinder under the extractor, but it has been a while since I have looked at these guns.

Bill