First Pinto I had ever seen for sale. Not in perfect shape - original grips but pretty beat up and underside of trigger guard is scratched up a bit.

Box and papers, timeline maybe 1970.

Hopefully factory original, but only time, patience and a letter will tell. I overpaid if it isn’t, underpaid if it is - but have decided that it’s pretty and I’ll enjoy it either way.

Thoughts welcome.

I like it. If that is the original box though I think the factory would have indicated it to be blue and nickel. The nickel screws and thumb piece suggest that someone outside the factory put it together as I don't remember other pintos having those. . . .although I haven't seen that many and am certainly no authority on them. I like it anyway and would have snagged it too if the price was at all reasonable.

Edit: Saw the box label later with the B/N, did the factory indicate two different finishes with those letters?

Jeff
SWCA #1457

The box shows B/N.

Yes, noticed that and edited my comment but I don't remember in the one or two boxes, or letters, I've seen that the finish was indicated that way. Maybe, hope so. A letter will confirm for sure. Good luck.

Edit: Checked a few known factory pinto pictures and some do have nickel thumb pieces although I didn't see any with nickel screws. I did remember, what I couldn't think of in my first comment, that the factory usually referred to the finish as "two-tone."

2nd Edit: Did a little more checking, found a picture of a box with finish showing B-N (and this one, a J frame, also had nickel screws), another with B.N. and an earlier one with a nickel sticker added to a box labeled "blue" so apparently the factory had several ways of identifying two-tone finish on boxes.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Is there any kind of back story or tale behind the Pinto guns? Who came up with them, when, any kind of why?

I agree the screws look nickel in the photo, but I’m not sure they are. They may just be blue and shiny - hard to tell.

Here's a link to an earlier, much earlier, thread discussing two tone finishes.

Ultimate Pinto thread

Jeff
SWCA #1457

This model 19 looks well used and well loved, I like it!

Cool piece! I think it’s legit.

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213th FBINA

Great thread and lots of stunners but no real answers as to how these came about.

I hope its legit for you.

Only concern I have is my 14-3 box the end sticker was put on upside down. Yours appears right side up.

That and the writing seems to have all been done by the same person with the same pen although I'm no handwriting expert either. Only a letter will tell us for sure.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

I hope that it letters as a pinto. Here's a box and gun for a factory lettered 19-1 pinto...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

The label corners are too rounded, trimmed by hand ( I've seen a lot of these off of flea-bay with square corners)and there is no light blue S&W logo in the background. Plus the aforementioned right side up positioning. And it's hard to tell from the photo, but the box appears to be newer than the gun. A dash 3 box should have print on the inside of the lid. I believe the box to have been "created" for this gun. However, the gun may still be legit. Only a letter will let us know for certain.

Received the letter yesterday. It letters as a "Special Finish Variation" with blue frame, nickel cylinder and thumb latch.

All good thus far - but no specific mention of the barrel finish.

I checked with the historian and he indicated the records show it shipped with a blue barrel. So, not so good.

So, either the factory records are in error or someone added the nickel barrel later.

The more I thought about it, the more I agree with dvus about the label as well. The box contents in terms of paperwork were assembled later, too, which leads me to suspect the label as well.

So, I have a cool piece with a somewhat checkered history, I guess.

Nice gun! To me it has all the finish variation of a true "pinto", including the nickel sideplate screws (and barrel). So I would be confident it came from the factory that way.

And the only thing checkered about it to me are the hammer spur and stocks . Enjoy!

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

LOL!

With that ‘8c’ ampersand on it, if the barrel was changed later, they sure picked the right vintage.

I would guess that it shipped with the nickel barrel and somehow the paperwork/records are incomplete.

Here are some glamour pics (the pics are nicer than the gun in person) of a 19-2 in the configuration that is described by the historian. This is one that shipped as a blued gun. I had an extra nickel cylinder and thought it was cool to add (along with the nickel thumbpiece and screws), as the blue cylinder had some corrosion.

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

I don't think I've ever even seen a Pinto out in the real world, but sure do like them. They are sharp.

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John 3:16 .

About two weeks ago, I pulled apart a (very misleadingly represented) Model 17-6- Blued, 4" Full under-lugged, Combat Gripped gun that I bought from a seller (of poor character) who is/was a member of this forum. Gun was presented ANIB however, upon arrival, the Trigger 'frame pin' was falling out of the frame and needed to go back to S&W to have it re-peened into the frame. S&W did a nice $170 job, but failed to mention that at one time, the original, under lugged .22lr barrel had been re-lined. it wasn't readily visible as the liner started about 3/4" into the muzzle and 1/2" from the breech. it also had a fair amount of 'Kitchen table" Bubba gunsmithing done to it. I figured, I'd 'part it out-sell the mint Combat grips, 1/2" target trigger & hammer and try to get some $$ out of it.


I pulled the cylinder to see if it would 'fit' into my M617 Stainless 4" .22... if nothing else, I'd see if the 1/2" hammer and trigger would be a decent fit w/o hours of work. Hours of work later, it was a 'home-made' Pinto.

This inspired me to do some S&W research regarding Pintos. First off, S&W never used the term "Pinto" to describe any handgun with 'mixed finishes' and pretty much stated: The only 'real' S&W revolvers made in the factory with mixed finishes were Custom Orders - usually around 250 pieces; and made only for their larger distributors like Talo, Davidson, etc. They COULD NOT be ordered from S&W as 'single piece' custom build 'Pintos.'

Also it is common sense that if one of these 'alleged' 'mixed finish' guns was lettered from Roy and crew at S&W, the letter would certainly state who the original customer was, the configuration, how many were built in the custom order, and what Distributor ordered them. So if a letter is lacking all of this info, I think one could pretty safely say "you've got a very nice '3rd party gunsmith build- but S&W did not assemble it'

So if you're looking to buy one 'represented' as a Factory Pinto, good luck. moving certain parts from gun to gun- forged parts to MIM Parts- can be a challenge ( why aren't there still hundreds of 'gunsmiths' at S&W as opposed to MIM Parts filters now?

Looking to acquire one? Imperative to have any gun represented s a Pinto throughly checked by a very competent S&W gunsmith first.

At best, you may be acquiring an attractive novelty- not a 100% genuine S&W assembled product.

Just my two cents- unless someone can show me a genuine 'lettered' Pinto.

I think any "pinto" that letters as a "two tone blue and nickel finish" will be a legitimate "pinto." I haven't seen many letters but I don't think a letter will necessarily tell you how many others were built at the time the one being lettered was made. The letter will tell you who it originally shipped to, and when, as well as the original configuration. If you have a letter and the gun in question matches the details in the letter I don't know that having it checked "by a very competent S&W gunsmith" would reveal anything more.

I'll certainly agree though that any "pinto" found in the wild without an original S&W letter would be suspect until proven otherwise.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Here you go -- I hope this fulfills your cynical/skeptical wish.

Attached Images

	59 pinto R.jpg (119.9 KB, 41 views)
	'59 two-tone Mod 36 158956 L.jpg (137.8 KB, 33 views)
	1959 two-tone box (2).jpg (73.7 KB, 40 views)
	'59 Chiefs Special two-tone letter.jpg (65.7 KB, 51 views)

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

I was in college in the mid 1970s and a local gun shop had several pinto Model 27s (they may have been pre Model 27s. This was before I knew the difference). All three were 3 1/2"ers.

The owner was a collector.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Upside down is correct. The labels were meant to be readable when the gun was displayed in the box with the bottom of the box slid into the top of the box like this.

The Op's box isn't right, or at the least not the usual.

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Bill Bates

The reason, I had heard (read here probably) was that the boxes were stacked on shelves at the factory and the labels were "upside down" so that when a box was pulled from the shelf the gun would be less likely to drop with the box held "bottom side up." Whatever the reason, most labels from the factory in that timeframe were found "bottom side up."

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Two bit cowboy - interesting that your letter doesn’t specify individual parts like mine did.

Does anyone have a Pinto that letters where it specifies the parts like mine, but especially the barrel, like mine does not?

I’m tending to agree with the helpful input of others here about the box being a reproduction. The contents are as well, which is a huge clue. The model 19 brochure was date marked 1978, and a Helpful Tips brochure was included, which I think dates to earlier years, IIRC.

Just a simple comparison to other boxes from the era shows it hasn’t aged like they have, either. Label wrong side up and no printing inside the box as well.

I’m leaning toward thinking the gun is righteous and the box is not.

If I had to pick, I’d take the gun being right over the box anyway!

Thanks for all the helpful and supportive input.

To me, the letter appears to state it shipped with a nickel barrel; "...with a Blue frame, a Nickel barrel..."

Attached Images

19-3_1K22676_ltr.jpg (89.3 KB, 73 views)

Snw19_357, how many times have I read that letter and missed the word barrel? Thank you for pointing that out - duh.

To be fair, when I emailed the historian for clarification, he said the barrel was blue.

Also, the letter mentions the barrel separately later…

The information contained in a letter is dependent upon the
records available to the researcher (either Dr. Jinks or now Mr.
Don Mundell).

Look at this invoice, for example. Clearly it takes experience
reading/interpreting invoices for the researcher to write the letter.

In the letter for this one Dr. Jinks says, "The records indicate that
this revolver was shipped with a 2 inch barrel, bright blue finish
on frame and barrel, nickel plate cylinder, and smooth rosewood
grips."

Attached Images

invoice 6-4-'54 for the ''Dragnet'' boys.jpg (90.6 KB, 12 views)

__________________
Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

Well, the cylinder is barrel-shaped, so there's that.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

This Model 29-2 was shipped in October 1972 and letters as shown. Click on the photo for a closer look.

Bill

.357 Magnum, S92005, early 8 3/8-inch barrel, two-tone finish, target hammer and smooth target stocks, shipped in September 1953 in a Registered Magnum box numbered to the revolver to Rex Firearms in NYC. Click on the photo for a better look.

Bill

Doc44, does the .44 have a nickel cylinder release? Does the letter specify a nickel barrel?

Thanks.

The letter only indicates a blue-nickel finish. The cylinder release latch is blued.

Bill