N frame 38 special

[Jaco1234]

I'm posting this question here, realizing that it could go in the earlier forum.
Are there N frames available in 38 special?

[Model19man]

Originally Posted by Jaco1234

I'm posting this question here, realizing that it could go in the earlier forum.
Are there N frames available in 38 special?

Sure, the 38/44 Heavy Duty. It had a model number later on, someone will be along to share that, but the earlier ones are much more common than later model marked ones.

[Baltimoreed11754]

The Colt New Service [equivalent in size to the 1917 N frame] was chambered in .38 spcl, even as small as .22 lr. Have a couple .38 NS revolvers but don’t know about the big Smiths. Someone in the know will be along shortly.

[rockquarry]

S&W Outdoorsman

[Truckman]

Originally Posted by rockquarry

S&W Outdoorsman

Yes, I own several HD's and Outdoorsman models...Some of my favorite guns......Ben

[rincar]

I think the outdoors man was a model 23 and the Heavy Duty was a Model 20.

[robertrwalsh]

They are great guns. I have managed to pick up a HD and an Outdoorsman over the years. Look good. Shoot good.

[demkofour]

Originally Posted by Model19man

Sure, the 38-44 Heavy Duty. It had a model number later on, someone will be along to share that, but the earlier ones are much more common than later model marked ones.

Originally Posted by rockquarry

S&W Outdoorsman

Originally Posted by Truckman

Yes, I own several HD's and Outdoorsman models...Some of my favorite guns......Ben

Originally Posted by rincar

I think the outdoors man was a model 23 and the Heavy Duty was a Model 20.

As noted above, The Model Marked 23 proceeded the .38/44 Outdoorsman and is chambered in .38 Special.
Same goes for the Model 20, which proceeded the .38/44 Heavy Duty.

[StrawHat]

Here are images of the 38/44 Heavy Duty, this is from 1950 and has a 5” barrel.





Truckman, or someone else that has one, can provide images of the Outdoorsman.

Kevin

[rct269]

I suspect this comes under the heading of old news, but it might be misleading to consider these guns made for .38 Specials. Yes, that was the chambering; but the load was some different. The Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman models were produced explicitly for use with the 38/44 S&W Special. The garden variety .38 Special of the day produced a muzzle velocity of 960 fps (from an 8 3/4" barrel). The 38/44 S&W Special from the same barrel length came out at 1,226 fps. By comparison, the 357 Magnum which came along a little later was at 1,512 fps. All this data from a S&W catalog of the time.

Ralph Tremaine

[Grayfox]

rct269 is correct. While these guns were chambered in .38 Special, they were built to shoot the .38/44 High Velocity round. The predecessor of the .357 Magnum. That round in turn was a .38 Special loaded up fire a 158 gr bullet at around 1200fps.
The fixed sight versions were called the 38/44 Heavy Duty and the adjustable sighted model was known as the 38/44 Outdoorsman.
With standard .38 Special ammo, these heavy guns are a pleasure to shoot.
Aspen Hill is our resident expert on these guns. I'm sure he'll be along shortly.

I've been fortunate enough to acquire 4" & 5" heavy duties and a 6" Outdoorsman over the years.

[demkofour]

Fascinating information ^^^^^^^^ reference the .38/44 Special round!!!

I was fortunate enough a few years ago to literally stumble across a model marked Mod-23! MOD-23
And the incredible experts and admirers here on the Forum have made this acquisition that much more interesting and worthwhile!

[Truckman]

Originally Posted by StrawHat

Truckman, or someone else that has one, can provide images of the Outdoorsman.

Kevin

Here's one still wearing the non-original grips as it came to me (I have since removed the red paint from the front sight)...This one lettered as having shipped 6/7/1948 along with nine others just like it......Ben

[Jaco1234]

Sounds like the choices for a 38 N frame are rare, rarer, and rarest.

[oldbrownhat]

Originally Posted by Grayfox

...Aspen Hill is our resident expert on these guns. I'm sure he'll be along shortly.

I believe this is his website devoted to the 38/44. I bookmarked it when this subject came up here some time back

From the main page:

THE SMITH & WESSON 38/44 HEAVY DUTY

The first 38/44 Heavy Duty was shipped from Smith & Wesson on 2 April 1930. This model was built in response to law enforcement's requirement for an arm that would shoot a high speed round which could penetrate car bodies and bullet proof vests. The collaboration between Smith & Wesson, Remington and Elmer Keith produced the 38/44 S&W cartridge which could launch a 158 grain bullet at 1175 fps and producing 460 foot pounds of energy. This round would penetrate 11ea 7/8inch thick boards and would go thru the trunk of a car, seats, dash and into the engine area. The factory first offered this gun in a 5 inch barrel, blue or nickel finish and service stocks. Some special orders were received early in production for the pistol with adjustable sights which was the precursor of the 38/44 Outdoorsman which would first appear in 1931. The 38/44 Heavy Duty was the father of the .357 Registered Magnum which appeared in 1935. I am always interested in acquiring collectable 38/44 Heavy Duties. Send me any Heavy Duty questions you have and I'll answer them if possible....

S&WCA Life Member 600

[Whit]

This may be way off base, but for some reason it seems to me that there were a few 38/44 Outdoorsman revolvers made with either four or five inch barrels. Can someone either confirm or shoot down whether they were ever manufactured with less than a 6.5” barrel?

[murphydog]

Yes, 5" .38/44 Outdoorsman revolvers were produced, and are informally called "McGivern models".

[Suburbanite]

Originally Posted by Jaco1234

Sounds like the choices for a 38 N frame are rare, rarer, and rarest.

The .38/44 Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman were actually quite popular when they were introduced and remained so until the 1950s when the options for .357 magnum revolvers increased and included more moderately priced guns like the Combat Magnum/Model 19 and Highway Patrolman/Model 28.

If anyone wants to enjoy a pre-WW II target N frame the .38/44 Outdoorsman has usually been the most moderately priced and easily found option available. There were made in larger numbers than the Registered Magnums or .44 Special targets. Like all N frames of their era, they are made from excellent quality steel, were assembled by fantastically skilled craftsman and tend to have spectacularly smooth actions and superb accuracy. They were also popular with bullseye shooters and some received cutting edge modifications from places like King's gun shop that influenced the features of factory "combat" revolvers from the 1950's to the 1980's. Those period of use modifications have become an area of specialty interest in their own right to some collectors.

[oldbrownhat]

I remember a few years ago seeing some N-frame "38 Special" revolvers marked "B.C. Police" at a local gun show. (I didn't even know we had had a BC Police force back in the day.) I subsequently learned that despite the marking, they were intended for "heavy duty" loads.

I regret not buying one. I think they were asking $1200 Cdn., about $935 USD at today's exchange rate.