In the early 1960s I was in the Army but served on three Air Force Radar Squadrons. The Air Police there carried Combat Masterpiece revolvers. I presume they were marked USAF or something similiar. When these became obsolete (with the adoption of the Beretta 92?) did any of them make it out into the civilian market or were they all destroyed?

They weren't destroyed as far as I know, but none have ever been officially released for public sale.
However...some are on the market.
I've posted this one a few times, but it's one of my favorites.

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John

Gorgeous. You can tell the air farce didn't require the carriers of that particular piece to train much.

I hope you aren't using a derogatory term for the Air Force in this post, as you would be offending a great many persons who have served/are serving in the USAF, including myself.

Jay, nice example and great provenance. Nice magnas on that one in particular.
Chuck

I could almost believe that this was General LeMay's personal weapon with stocks made by Keith Brown.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Brings back memories just seeing AF ribbons and USAF Model 15s...... Just joined the forum a few minutes ago and have two questions for anyone:

1) I remember from my active duty days, some USAF Model 15s were blued and some were parkerized--but some did not have "USAF" markings, but rather, "US" markings...does anyone have any additional details on this?

2) I have a civilian Combat Masterpiece Model 15-4, purchased back in 1989, with the serial number: X7XXx, where the "little x" denotes an actual number... Does anyone know what the significance is of three Xs in this serial number? Was this the end of the Model 15 production run? Has anyone else seen a serial number similar to this?

Deeply appreciate any help you can lend, as well as any insights.

Kindest Regards,

Steve

Steve,

Parkerizing on the Model 15's started probably in the late 1970's or early '80s at some of the bases. By that time the orignal finishes were virtually worn off.

Figure that most of these 15's had been in the inventory of arms rooms since the 1960's and issued how many times x 3 shifts in a 24 hour period..that's alot of holster wear!

Your question on the serial number. Here is the list for K frames starting in 1957.
K288,989 – K317,822...1957
K317,823 – K350,547...1958
K350,548 – K386,804...1959
K386,805 – K429,894...1960
K429,895 – K468,098...1961
K468,099 – K515,478...1962
K515,479 – K553,999....1963
K555,000 – K605.877....1964
K605,878 – K658.986....1965
K658,987 – K715,996....1966
K715,997 – K779.162....1967
K779,163 – K848,781....1968
K848,782 – K946,391....1969
K946,382 – K999,999....1970


1K1 – 1K39,500.........1970
2K1 – 2K22.037.........1970
1K39,501 – 1K999,999...1971
2K22,038 – 2K55,996....1971
3K1 – 3K73,962.........1971
2K55,997 – 2K99,999....1972
3K31,280 – 5K6,616.....1972
4K1 – 4K1,627..........1972
4K1,628 – 4K54,104.....1973
5K6,617 – 5K73,962.....1973
4K54,105 – 4K99,999....1974
5K73,963 – 6K58,917....1974
7K1 – 7K26,043.........1974
7K26,044 – 7K70,577....1975
6K98,918 – 8K20,763....1975
8K20,764 – 9K1.........1975
8K20,000 – 9K100,000...1975
9K1,001 – 9K99,999.....1976
10K001 – 24K9,999......1977
25K001 – 56K9,999......1978 – 79
57K001 – 91K6,800......1980
91K6,801 – 124K000.....1981
125K000 – 269K9,999....1982
270K000 – 311K273......1983

1980 Three-Letter Prefix Series Begins at AAA000

From 1957 to 1970 K was the first digit of the serial number on K frame revolvers.

The pinned barrel was discontinued around late 1981.

Hope this answers your question.

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Take your time..quickly.

Because this is a thread about AF issued Combat Masterpieces and M15s I'll be brief and not digress too much.

The 15-4s were a brief run from about 1977-82 or so.

How you would know it is a 15-4 must be because the model number is stamped on the yoke. Directly above that is where the serial number should be. It should also be on the butt.

I encourage you to take a close look at the number with a magnifying glass and in good light. See if the number is stamped over or if you may be mis-identifying a number.

tipoc

Tipoc,
Thank you very much for the info. My problem is that there is no visible serial number, either 1) above the "Model 15-4"on the yoke, or 2) on the butt. I've even taken off the grips in my attempt to locate any sort of number. The S/N should be of the type that "oldafsp" described in his reply to me last week: two or three digits, then the "K", then the remaining digits. The only number I can see (other than the "Model 15-4" on the yoke), is:

X7XX5 (opposite the yoke)

But I've never seen this type of S/N before where there is the letter 'X', then a number (7 in this case), two more Xs, and then the number 5...this made me think that this string of Xs and numbers is an assembly number or something.

Strange...

Thanks for whatever assistance you can lend.

The only other thing I can think of is that the S/N has been removed and the pistol reblued...but this is pure speculation and I'm by no means an expert. Welcome any advice you can lend or any leads I can follow.

Thanks so much!

bigsky5

I'm sorry--I posted this in the wrong section....I do have one final question.... Has anyone seen a USAF M-15 where instead of the "U.S.A.F." markings, there is simply a "U.S." instead?

Is this correct, or did I acquire a "fake" by mistake? Welcome your thoughts.

They seem never to have been sold as surplus, but examples are in civilian hands. I think they represent stolen guns. Some have appeared on this board, one now being for sale in Europe. It has seen better days, but is supposedly identifiable as a USAF piece. No way to know how it came on the market, probably.

FYI, the guns seem all to have had target hammers and triggers, and can be distinguished from the civilian M-15 by the initials U.S.A.F stamped above the trigger on the left side of the frame. Someone will probably post a photo of one. (NOTE: this was typed as the above posts were being made.)

Some were reportedly refinished in a Parkerized finish by military armorers.
All that I saw while in the Air Force had the regular bright blue finish.

There was a snub version, called the M-56 by the AF.It was presumably the forerunner to the snub M-15. I think these had the standard hammer and trigger. Frankly, I prefer those to the target version. Gen. LeMay had some idea that the target features would enhance qualifying.

In addition to Air Police/Security Forces, the Combat Masterpiece was often issued to aircrew, combat control teams, pararescuemen, OSI agents, and, probably, others. From the early 1960's until 1985, it was the standard USAF handgun,although supplemented by others.

Someone posted here a few days ago that a genuine example sells for about $1500-2500, depending on condition, and who has it. Unless you're a collector, you'd be FAR better off to look for a civilian example for maybe $400. Apart from those four letters above the trigger, you'd have the same gun, and no chance of being busted for being in possession of stolen government property. Not that I really think that is likely unless you display the gun openly and brag how rare it is. Then some jealous jerk may turn you in...

LATER: the same goes for the Air Police badge in the photo above. Those were controlled items, which allowed access to many restricted areas, as well as identifying an Air Force cop. I had to turn mine in when I left active duty. (The policy on that may well have changed over the years.) I still remember my badge number...

T-Star

I tried to turn in my badge when I got out, but they told me to keep it, so I did.
It's the one I wore for my entire 4 years.

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John

Jay-

Congratulations. Maybe by the time that happened, the design was changing? I was in during the 1960's and the Cold War was sometimes just short of hot. That may have made a difference. And some supply officers were probably more lax than others.

I even had to return my night stick to get a release from Supply. But I'm sure that some bases were more strict than others.

You have a valuable momento there. Take care of it. I think it should be a family heirloom! When I was in, unneeded badges were decreed destroyed by ball peen hammers, lest they get into the wrong hands.

T-Star

Hand Ejector-

Just saw your post.

You have a good point, and I am NOT accusing anyone in particular of taking either gun or badge. I know of another badge in the hands of a well know gun writer who has photographed it in his articles. He would hardly do that, unless he felt that it was no problem.

My concern is simply that, with an anti-gun administration in power, unless one can prove how he came by such an item, it may lead to controversy. Of course, that has been true for generations! I gather that this is seldom addressed by the authorities. Still, I'd feel better if I could document how I came by such a purchase. I am quite sure that some retiring officers were allowed to take them, then later sold them, or their heirs did. Others vanished from inventories via various means. Again, I am not implying that JayCee or anyone else has done anything wrong. I was speaking strictly in generalities. And being on the conservative side, at that. What I should have said is that some examples MAY represent items that did not officially leave Air Force custody.

"I think they represent stolen guns."

You should not have made this statement.
As I stated above, there is evidence that the AF transferred some to PD's.
How many 1911's and 1917's have we seen butchered by grinding off the "US Property" stamps because some idiot thought it meant it was stolen?

The gun pictured here came through a pawn shop, meaning the number was run through the computer by the police department. Had it been listed as stolen, it would not be seen here.
So, you cast doubt on every AF Mod 15 out there, whether released legally or not. Researching the paper trail on military weapons is nigh on impossible. It probably exists, but having the time and resources and access to find it is seldom possible.
Therefore, it would be better to assume one is legal till it is proven otherwise. Your statement does us no service.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Those badges are obsolete. The USAF dumped them several years ago as surplus. You can buy them on EBay.

T-Star,
You don't know that they were stolen.
We believe the AF transferred some to civilian police departments. From there, they made their way into the open market when the departments probably traded them to a wholesaler for new guns.
One that I owned came throough a full bird that retired from Warner Robbins.
I doubt he stole it.
Perhaps he bought it.
Perhaps someone with enough rank said "write it off".

Likewise, we often have S&W's turn up that won't letter because they are open on the books, meaning no record of shipment. That does not mean they were stolen.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I got the one in Sweden for a real bargain price a few years ago, previous owner died and sold by a small gun shop. Got a permit for it so it was screened in the Federal Swedish Police Database so not reported as stolen over here. I'm real curious how it made it over here. Checked the S/N recall it was made in 1967. Exterior parkerized, read that those with bad finish were parkerized by the AF. Slight visible external pitting, however perfect bore and internally no signs of corrosion. Action smoth as silk. Generally nice condition, however, at removal of grips I detected that frame under grip panels was severly corroded, pin completely rusted away. Moisture or corrosive substance must have been trapped here over time. Anybody that got an idea where it came from and what happened to it, tropical environment, salt water exposure?

Still have my SP Shield that was issued to me upon graduating from training at Lackland back in 1980. When I retired in 2000 I turned in two others that I had been issued but was allowed to keep my origional that I wore through out my USAF career, spent 20 years in the Security Police. Sure wish I could get my hands on one of those M-15's, just because. Never did really care for the M-9. I would have prefered if the SIG 226 had won the contract. I think it's a better firearm. However politics will prevail in the end.

My shield was issued at the academy and was retired with me after 27 years of Security Police/Forces duty. 13 active, 14 reserve. I retired in 1997.

The gear here is original AF issue, including the S&W AF Law Enforcement holster. The short billy was courtesy of the 380th SPS, Plattsburgh AFB, NY, used on town patrol in the late 1950's.

Best to all of my brothers in arms here.

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Take your time..quickly.

My understanding is that General LeMay disliked the M1911A1 and preferred revolvers. He was commanding officer of SAC from its inception around 1947 until 1957 and then became Chief of Staff until 1965. AF personnel either loved him or hated him as did many politicians. However, when the flak started flying I bet anyone would prefer him driving left seat. I suspect he was personally involved in the Aircrewman (aluminum snub-nose revolvers for air crews) program, choice for the Model 15 for Air Police, and eventually the Model 56 for air crews, missile crews, etc.

I think you are correct. I read that somewhere, years ago. During my service, one of the range people told me that the general was dismayed with handgun scores by USAF personnel, and thought that the wide target hammer and trigger on the issued M-15 would raise scores. I couldn't tell that it did. What was needed was more training and a better impression of the value of a sidearm on those who carried them.

Actually, the wide trigger made double-action fire harder.

I have to say that few airmen whom I knew were really very interested in handguns. Some were, but we were exceptions. But most managed to qualify at at least the Marksman level.

Besides the Combat Masterpiece, we had a boatload of older .38's, most being Victory Models bummed from the Navy. There were a few Colts, though. Some were commercial Official Police models, the rest the rough-finished Commando model. Investigators carried Cobras with shrouded hammers on the base where I spent most of my tour.

We still had a few .45 autos, and I often chose to carry one. Jeff Cooper had already convinced me of the merits of that gun. Actually, when I was stationed in Newfoundland, we had ONLY .45 autos, and M-2 carbines. They had a treaty that said that when the US abandoned the base, the Canadians got to keep our stuff. So, they never sent M-16's or .38's up there.

My auxiliary AP's, who would have helped us if an attack had come, were so gun naive that most had fired only the carbine, in basic training. In many cases, that had been years before. I found that many of these augmentees could barely recall how to load and fire the weapons! Thankfully, the Cold War never turned hot, and we never had an attack by Spetnaz troops from off a Soviet submarine. I used to be concerned that it might happen. (I was then at a remote radar site on a coastline.)

For what it's worth, I sometimes wore my own Colt Gold Cup .45 on duty in Canada. Then, some officer who went by the regs told the colonel, and I went back to a M-1911A-1, all Colt -made. The colonel wasn't too wigged out over it. Just told me to stop carrying a personal gun, and to use an issued holster instead of the Border Patrol style rig that I had brought from home.

T-Star

That's certainly a nice picture, and a fine gun...but in the last 30 years of my active duty service (still going), and qualification and carry of the Model 15 for official purposes (aircrew), as well as close association with the Security Police (now Security Forces), I have never seen nor heard of a gun so configured. All that I used, saw, carried (and this was quite a number at a number of locations), were of the standard S&W Model 15 nomenclature - standard hammer and trigger, no "U.S.A.F" markings. It is possible that these were the early issues of this revolver, as those I used were 3 screw models, no diamond grips, pinned barrels. The Air Force has always issued personal sidearms to general officers, which upon retirement, could be purchased. That may explain why some of these early guns surfaced on the used market.

Despite the fact that these revolvers often had some extensive wear, every one I shot was accurate and had a fine action. I even won a leg medal in a military pistol match with one (a long time ago).

These guns were retired from active inventory shortly after Operation Desert Storm, replaced by the M9 (Beretta Model 92) which continues to be the Air Force issue arm.

Back in the 1960's, it was somewhat of a status symbol to have a wide target hammer and wide target trigger installed on a S&W revolver. Except for off hand and National Match style shooting, they were basically useless. The Model 15 came standard with a semi-target hammer (a little wider than the service hammer) which was just as good as the wide for single action cocking. The half-inch wide trigger was really too wide for the S&W trigger guards and they always made me a little nervous on the range when the guys were re-holstering a loaded weapon. Double action shooting is easier with a standard width trigger, anyway. I suppose LeMay felt that the "goodies" would make a better shooter out of a mediocre shooter. Most of us familiar with shooting know that it's not the goodies, but good shooting skills that make a good shooter.

I was an Air Force Security Police officer from 1983 to 1991, getting out at the rank of Captain at Bergstrom AFB outside of Austin, TX. I was issued a variety of Model 15s, and wish I would have paid more attention to their configuration (TT, TH). I know I never got a bad one, and they were all very accurate even with the awful ball ammo we had to carry.

I'm not sure how any got into the civilian marketplace, but I suspect "leakage" from a number of sources. I could have gotten one myself - an RF-4C (aka Texas Lawn Dart) smacked a highway overpass and scattered itself all over the road on approach to the base. The pilots ejected and parachuted to safety in a nearby trailer park. I was on scene trying to keep people from walking off with classified trinkets when a guy walked up to me with one of the crew's Model 15, lost in the violent ejection from the jet. I turned it in, because I'm not a thief, but if I had kept it I'm sure it would have just been written off as lost and never entered into NCIC. It wasn't unheard of for them to come up missing during armory inventories, either, and I highly doubt these guns were entered into NCIC.

I've never heard of the Air Force giving surplus guns to police departments, but I suppose it could have happened.

And, yes, the statute of limitations has most definitely run for theft of government property, but that only applies to prosecuting the thief, not for recovery of stolen property.

So what would I do if I came across a USAF stamped Model 15 in the course of my day-to-day G-man duties? I'd probably fondle it heavily and try to buy it. Uncle Sam has bigger problems than trying to recover an "obsolete" weapon they've gotten rid of anyway.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

My Uncle is retired USAF and he told me a story about the transition and asked if he could purchase his S&W. He could but the cylinder, barrel & frame were torch cut first. Such a darn waste.

my 14-1 was shipped to lackland afb texas on march 28 1961 it was shipped with a 6 inch barrelth tt checkered target grips, this shipment was for 50 units, some were returned to the factory and the barrels changed to 4 inch,

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

This has been a very enjoyable thread to read, thanks to the original poster for starting it and to all those who made contributions with their personal histories and recollections. Great Post!

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Sam
S&WHF 333 S&WCA 2198

They were probably worried he'd convert it to a machinegun.

ECS

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

My first experience with Air Force cops was as a young Marine stationed in Naples, Italy in the late 80s and early 90s. We had a couple posts to guard over at AFSouth and when we would drive through the gates, that base was guarded by Italian Caribenari and AF cops. I noticed one AF cop as we drove by that had a Ruger six series revolver in his holster. I can't remember if it was a Service-Six, Security-Six or what not but I do remember the distinctive cylinder release of a Ruger. I never knew Ruger had a military contract which is why I remember that really standing out in my mind.
Fast forward a little over a decade and now I found myself in the USAF reserves as a CATM instructor. Our CATM shop at Seymour-Johnson AFB in 2007-2008 was top to bottom reservists (and having the highest qual rate in ACC, I think we knew what the hell we were doing) but the Chief looked at the manning document and figured we had to have active duty bodies in the CATM shop so being the IMA, I was the first one to go to flight for 3 months then off to the cop armory for another 3 months before I deployed to Afghanistan. Yeah, I was bitter about that whole ordeal but the silver lining to that cloud was that the guy that took my CATM slot a few years later was busted for stealing and selling ammo and weapon parts on the internet! Hey, they wanted him, they got him! LOL But I digress.
Anyways, in the cop armory, we had a couple obsolete weapons to include an M-79 bloop gun and an M-15 revolver. The M-15 never seen the light of day really since the only think it was used for was for K9 to use blanks with while working with the dogs. I don't remember the USAF stamp on it anywhere but I do remember the blue finish, broken rear sight and generally beat to hell condition. I still have a couple other revolvers that rate higher on my want to get list but getting an M-15 is also on that list as well. Not as high as some of my other wants, but still on a short list.

I don't consider myself a collector....having no interest in engraved guns, etc. I've always considered firearms to be used. But...if I could get myself a Mod 15 that could be verfied to have been used by the air force and stamped with the USAF I would jump at the chance!

I used to shoot NRA Hunter's Pistol Silhouette matches at the old K.I. Sawyer AFB outside Marquette, MI many years ago. The gate guards had what looked like M15s from my truck. They were all long-barreled, never saw an M56.

Most looked in pretty good shape but one I used to notice was visibly rusted.

When the base closed the range we shot on was destroyed. This despite the fact that the local police academy was setting up shop
on the old base. The rationale was lead contamination.

I figure it was just a bunch of bureaucratic types wasting our tax
money.

FWIW I've got to insert my 2c. I would love to have an AF Marked M-15. I spent 22 years in the Air Force and the first time I was issued a M-15 was as a Butter Bar Pay Master (beck in the days when we paid in cash). Most of my AF time was as a Special Agent in the AFOSI. When I first entered OSI our issue weapon was the M-15, most with 4" barrels. I saw a few 2" barrels and just assumed they were M-15s although they may well have been M-56s. Part of the AFOSI mission was to investigate major crimes in and against the Air Force. One case type was "Theft of Government Property" and I am aware of several cases where theft of M-15s was the issue. I personnaly investigated several. While we got convictions on occasion, our recovery rate of the revolvers was not high. When investigated as "theft" the SNs were entered into the NCIC. I'm sure there was "leakage" as mentioned above and have no knowledge of whether those were entered or not, but there are some hot ones out there. There are also some legitimate examples out there also. I have no knowledge of any being provided to civilian LE, but it is entirely plausible. I do know that some were sold/given to foreign LE agencies and it is also possible that some of those have returned home. As I said, I would love to have one, even a comemorative. Keep shootin' and check 6.

I bought mine for 110.00-125 from a Police Supply store in late 80's early 90s, they had about 4-5 on display, so doubt they were stolen. Mine is in storage somewhere , I used the target hammer /trigger in another gun, may have to switch them back now that there is such an interest in these.. Bob

Odlafsb
is that a "Dun Hume" belt ?

Nope, this belt was made under contract for the Air Force. Most likely by Cathay Enterprises or Gould and Goodrich (S&W's contractor) in 1980.

Prior to that, the garrison belt, 2 inches wide was the standard issue. The garrison belt was a joke. Designed for the Class A uniform back in the late 1940's and used until 1980.

There was a concerted effort amongst the Security Police Instructors between 1977 and 1979 to get the gear up to par with civilian counterparts.

I was proud to be part of that group of NCO's that brought the changes about.

Shown below is the makers stamping for the AF.



And the aforementioned garrison belt. Which was really a horrible way to carry your weapon and gear for a shift.



Hope this was helpful. I have numerous examples of all the gear we used over my career. Some of it new and unissued. I guess I'm just an old pack rat.

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Take your time..quickly.

OldAFSP:

Very nice rig. From the CAGE code on the belt I can tell you that it was actually made by Hunter Corporation. These SP belts were supplied by several different manufacturers, including those you mentioned.

BTW, do you have a date on when the photo of the female SP was taken and where?

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Charlie, not to butt in, but we got our first female SP at my base in Thailand in early 1975. She was the wife of one of our SP's who cross-trained to the SP career field.
That picture from oldafsp looks like Lackland AFB, Texas, probably the first place they used them as the SP tech school was there. And the S&W holster was first issued in the early 1970's.

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John

That photo came from the Security Police Museum archives. It sure looks like the old Gate 3 off Military Blvd at Lackland.

The first class of 7 women graduated in 1971. The first female K-9 handlers graduated in 1973.

BY 1975, according to AF records, there were just over 1100 female SP officers, all assigned to Law Enforcement (812XX) duties, and over half of them were assigned out of CONUS.

Hope this is helpful.

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Take your time..quickly.

Thanks, oldafsp.
I graduated from Tech School in November, 1971. I didn't realize we had female SP's that early.

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John

Looks like there are a good many former SFs here. Up until about 5 years ago, I worked at the USAF Gunsmith Shop at Lackland AFB, on the Medina Training Annex. One of my projects which I was not happy about at the time was converting, I think, 10 or 12 of those nice revolvers for ceremonial use by honor guards. That involved welding the barrels, and also welding together the internal parts to make them inoperative. I don't remember any of them having USAF markings. I seem to remember they were shipped to Lackland from Anniston Depot, so it's possible they could have come from another service. All were in excellent condition, except the magna grip panels (they were the type with diamonds) on most required refinishing.

By the way, the picture above may have been taken at Lackland, but I can't think of any view from any of the Lackland gates in my memory looking like that, either at main base or the annex. It does look like there is a static aircraft display on the left side, and there is something similar inside the Medina gate, so it could have been there - but I doubt it. Possibly the Valley Hi gate? Things do change over the years and the view could have been much different back when the picture was taken, as Lackland has changed a great deal. It's officially not even Lackland AFB now - It's Joint Base - Lackland, as all of the San Antonio bases have been consolidated under BRAC - Lackland, Randolph, Fort Sam Houston, and Camp Bullis. Brooks AFB and Kelly AFB no longer exist as military facilities.

You really know how to make an old Chief cry, don't ya.....

I could be wrong, but I think only the initial order of 5000 Model 15's were roll stamped on the left side of the frame. Many of my duty stations had 15's that were not stamped. Most of the ones in SEA, though were.

And you are so right about how things have changed there. I was back there in '81 and many of the static displays were moved..or gone. Gad, I went through basic in the old WWII barracks section. They had so many trainees that they formed basic flights with overflow and had 1 TI and assistant to 3 of the old barracks.

The main gate at Kelly was a busy place back then. You saluted so much that your arm wanted to fall off.

Welcome to the ranks of the brotherhood here.

__________________
Take your time..quickly.

I think there is only one of the old barracks buildings remaining there, preserved for historical purposes. There was a big demolition project which eliminated many of the WWII-era buildings in the early and mid-1990s. The Annex has really been built up a lot, with an urban training area right inside the gate, plus a MOUT complex at Camp Bullis (not too far from the SF Academy). I'm not too up-to-date as to current Lackland activities, and haven't even been on-base for the last three years. I don't know if the SF museum is still there, I was in it only one time.

My US marked M-15 was issued to a General officer. He lives in my general vicinity and he was allowed to keep his pistol when he retired. I bought my pistol from a fellow collecter that bought it from his son and had it documented.

SWCA 892

I know this post is old DWalt, but wondered if you remember Bob Day, I was at Wilford Hall in March of 1997 with my Dad, who was having an adult Stem Cell transplant, God Bless the United States Air Force, and fine Doctors, Nurses, and in particular a Civilian Social Worker, who supported patients and their families, (I am an Air Force Brat), and proud of it. My Dad's Dr. was a Red Headed Major, sadly I don't remember his name, but his love and respect for my Dad was a tangible blessing and encouragement to my DAD, he sent him home to the BOQ, just to get him out of the hospital for a day. I will forever be gratefull as he live another 5 years, thanks to his transplant. Anyway, I drove around San Antone, and found Bob's shop, but he was out that day. billymagg

Sorry, I don't remember that name. We had both civilians (like me) and enlisted in the USAF Gunsmith Shop, and there was a lot of turnover as the military guys rotated through. I left in late 2007, and at this time, I hardly remember anyone who was there. At that time, our principal function was making up special M9s for General Officer issue and rebuilding thousands of high-mileage M16A2s, plus the occasional special project, such as accurizing M14s, mounting sights on M249s, etc.

oldafsp, Thanks for the link for the base patches, I'm getting my list together to order a few. I just missed you at Griffiss AFB. I was there with OSI Dist 22 from Jul 71-Oct 72 when I PCS'd overseas. I ran a couple of cases with an SP Civilian Investigator, last name of Smith. He was an old timer and he 'learned me a couple of things' They had 166 inches of snow the winter I was there and it wasn't even close to the record. Keep shootin' and check 6

I'll jump into this thread......I graduated the SP Academy in 78. They engraved our SSN onto the back of the badge. Also told us it was a controlled item and we would be Art. 15 if misused.

Only the LE troops fired the M-15 at Tech School. I didn't put my hands on one until I got to Clark AB. I remember them not being real accurate with PGU rounds, but it was "cool" carry one.

Crossed trained as a TAC-P in 82 and got lots of time with the M-15. Then M9's in 85.

Retired in 2008 and can still shoot the M9 better than anything else.

I am glad this thread was resurrected, some great info. I qualified on the M16 rifle and M15 revolver several times in my USAF years.

I wanted to comment on the origin of M15's in civilian hands. It seems to be "accepted" among collectors that there have been no surplus sales of any handguns since the 60's, but I can tell you for a fact that this prohibition was not followed uniformly by the services. In the early 80's, a fairly large number of USAF surplus revolvers were sold by Warner-Robbins Air Logistics Center in Georgia. I do not know the exact date, but I did buy two like new S&W Victory models from an FFL dealer who had about two dozen Victory Models for sale from that surplus lot. He told me he had a few Model 15's as well, but they had sold out within days of him offering them for sale. He had obtained them from a distributor that had bid and won the entire lot sold by the USAF. He had some copies of release paperwork from the distributor, but at that time I was not a "collector" so to speak, I just liked the nice looking Victory models he had. The Victory's did not carry USAF markings, one I bought was US Navy marked on the top strap, the other a standard US Property marked. I really wish I had found him before the M15's had sold out.

Anyway, there are perfectly legal ex-USAF revolvers out there.