Hi, y'all.

A fella on another gun forum started a thread about what the muzzle flash signature would be like in a darkened room with Alliant 2400 in a .357 Magnum. Rather than try to explain it in subjective terms, I set out to photograph the "event" to better illustrate. He mentioned also a curiousity about Unique in the .357 Magnum so I obliged him with photos of both.

And just for fun, since I already had the camera and stuff set up for night time photos, I added the classic Remington factory load R357M1 for comparison.

It took an an hour setting things up in the yard before my light was gone and night fell. Then a sudden rain storm came up and I had to hurriedly alter my camera setup. I wish these would have come out a little better but plans changed suddenly. No image was altered in any way other than some cropping.



This load of Unique is really more of a heavy bullet .38-Spl +P+ load but the flash signature was very small.





Thanks for looking. It was fun doing this little project.

Dave (nitesite)

14 gr. really makes a big flash. Cool pictures.

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Get off my lawn.

Great pics. I was trying to experiment for that very reason. I used trap 100, sr4756, and something else I can't remeber without going and looking. Trap 100 gave what appeared to br the smallest flash. Not much in the way of power though. My father-in-laws chrony was "having a moment, so I abandoned the test.

I'd say the two photos validate that 2400 is a slower burning powder than Unique.....
Mike

Awesome pics!

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Sie vis pacem parabellum

Great job!!! Those pics are amazing. Looks like the factory has their stuff together. Amazing difference from pic 1 to pic 3.

Pic 1 = blind for 10 seconds or so, Pic 3 = emptying the cylinder if necessary within those 10 seconds.

Thanks!

Dave,

I like your pictures very much. They clearly show how muzzle and gap flash are different with different powders. R357M1 is very interesting - flash suppression really works. I read somewhere that Rem uses some type of H110 in this load; just imagine the size of the flash without suppression. Thank you for posting your pictures.

Have you ever considered doing same tests with 38 spl snub? Would be really interesting to see how popular loads compare to each other...

Mike

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9x19, 9x29R, 9x33R, 10x22

Excellent photos. What a great job of photography!

I like the idea of shooting the same loads with the 4" and snub nose barrels.

Maybe if you get a little time .....................

Thanks for the encouraging words, fellas. It was fun doing it!

I have a no-dash 442 (my only snubbie) and I could do some Gold Dot 135-gr +P against some Remington Express R38S14 (exact same round as the FBI hollow point load but with a LSWC) if that sounds interesting. Of course, I have Bullseye, Unique, and some other powders to illustrate handloaded rounds and the flash they produce.

I may have to set aside some time to try out your idea in the very near future. Would anyone have some suggestions to give me?

And thanks again.

Great pics!

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Andy

Sounds great, Dave. If you'd like I can mail you 38spl BB +P, modern Rem FBI (R38S12) and old Win FBI super-police (X38SPD) loads for comparison. Also, my favorite flamethrougher - 21.5 gr. H110 under 125 gr. bullet in 357mag brass. Let me know if you are interested in any of these.

Mike

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9x19, 9x29R, 9x33R, 10x22

Hello, Mike~

It just occured to me that I can borrow my FILs stainless steel J-frame for the more robust .38-Spl loads (like the BB you mentioned). And there is also a 4" Ruger Police Service Six that would dupe a Model 10 and can handle anything I can throw at it. Plus the 4" 686 and a 4" 28-2 and a 6" Security Six for any .357 Magnum flash photos.

So among all those revolvers, I can safely shoot and photograph any ammo that I can muster up.

This could be really FUN if anyone has any more requests!

Mike, email me if you want to see this idea come to life.

Dave (nitesite)

Cool stuff, Dave, and you didn't even need a hand model for great pics. No imagination needed here. I've fired R357M1 from my 2 1/4" Taurus before and after Remington started using flash suppressed powders. The difference is extremely noticeable even in broad daylight.

Hi Dave,

Well, it sounds really good! Since you have all this hardware, I'd like to add R357M2's (full house 158 grainers) for 2 and 4" bbl testing and some of my own 38-44 rounds powered with 3N37 and Longshot. How many rounds would you like me to send over? I was thinking that 3-6 shots per barrel length would be good to have a solid comparison.

One load I'd really love to add to the test is the standard pressure version of BB 158 gr. SWCHP. At about 900 fps from 1-7/8" bbl it'd be a perfect load for 442. Unfortunately I don't have any of them but maybe someone else would be willing to contribute?

Hey, let's have some fun!

Mike

P.S. Flop, the flame throughers I mentioned above, closely duplicate ballistics of R357M1 in 2, 3 and 4" revolvers. It will be fun to see them in Dave's pictures. I guess he'll just have to zoom out a lot to get the flame tongue in the frame.

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9x19, 9x29R, 9x33R, 10x22

As I recall, I had a three foot long fireball.

As someone who'd love to see what his 460 Mag muzzle flash would look like, how did you coordinate the picture being taken and the round being fired?

That's an impressive muzzle flash in the 1st pic!

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NRA Endowment Member

I'd be very interested to see pictures of the 38 special stuff in a snub.

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John

Here is the .38-Special muzzle flash thread I started...

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloadi...8-snubbie.html

I hope you enjoy seeing it!

Dave (nitesite)

First let me say that the muzzle flash you saw in that photo is over in a few milliseconds and it was not blinding.

I described how I took the photos in the .38-Special muzzle flash thread in the Reloading room.

Thanks for asking. I hope that I can be of help if you ever try to get your own photos!

Mike, if you also saw the .38-Special "muzzle flash" thread and still want to see some photos with your ammunition, I'd be very glad to oblige your wish.

Thank you, Dave. PM sent. --Mike

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9x19, 9x29R, 9x33R, 10x22

Thanks for the pictures. I have never seen anything
like that before. A job well done. Don

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"Don't worry be happy"

If your interested I can send you 38spl +P+ Federal and Winchester Treasury Load

Great job capturing the muzzle flash and the comparisons!

Many years ago, my father wrote a book called "Handgun Muzzle Flash Tests: How Police Cartridges Compare" for Paladin Press. Out of print, but probably still available online or at gun shows. His premise was that the bright muzzle flash may hinder vision or illuminate officers at night. He compared many loads in many calibers. Much the same idea as your tests.

Keep up your tests. It would be interesting to see if current police loads still have a bright flash....And it might actually be fun....

Jim_O

Good stuff! Thanks for the fascinating thread.

Jerry

Wow. Thank you for the offer. If it's OK with you, I'd shoot them in a 4" K-frame or 4" L-Frame in order to get some photos for you.



And if I can borrow my FIL's steel snub I would be able to get snubbie pics.

I'm very late to this Nitesite.
Thanks for all your time and effort on this!
I admire your photographic as well as computer skills!

I second this, and add my thanks for a great
post!
teesur.