animalmother
Member
Does anyone have one of these? Can't find much info on this gun.
Hamilton Bowen S&W Revolver In 25 ACP
- Thread starter animalmother
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Don't have one but do recall hearing about it at the time it was being made. It was a stunt. The shop made it in a rather curious exercise, rather like a piano piece so difficult the composer could not play it - only a virtuoso. I don't imagine that subsequently they were overrun with orders.
For all the moonclip lovers, I believe the gun used specially made 6-shot clips, and I seem to recall hearing that working with them was a bit tedious.
For all the moonclip lovers, I believe the gun used specially made 6-shot clips, and I seem to recall hearing that working with them was a bit tedious.
cgt4570
Member
I guess that's for the guy who has everything! To each his own. I had Mr. Bowen build me a .327 Federal Magnum K frame with 8-3/8" barrel. I've been contemplating having him create some kind of .22 Centerfire for me. As much as I like Smiths, I'm leaning toward a Ruger SA in FN 5.7. (I don't want to deal with moon clips)
I do know he has built several K frames in .25-20. That would be a much more practical choice than .25 acp.
I do know he has built several K frames in .25-20. That would be a much more practical choice than .25 acp.
Don't overlook the .218. It is an old design, but a good one. It will fit into a Jet-length K-frame cylinder, and brass and dies would be off-the-shelf.
OP
animalmother
Member
I recall seeing a picture of one in a Guns & Ammo issue from the late 80s or early 90s.
Something just really intrigues me about such a set up. I doubt I'd be willing to pay what it would cost to have one made.
There can't be many out there.
Something just really intrigues me about such a set up. I doubt I'd be willing to pay what it would cost to have one made.
There can't be many out there.
smithcollector
Member
there are pictures of it, and he talks about it, in his book.
No need for moonclips in the 25 ACP; the case is semi-rimmed. I've been thinking of having a K-22 converted myself. I've seen a double rifle built on a 410 shotgun frame with liners inserted in the barrels; it's wonderful fun to shoot and I actually made a right and a left on a pair of charging beer cans at 25 yds.
David Sinko
Member
I once asked Bowen if he could make a spare cylinder in .45 Winchester Magnum for my .45 Colt Redhawk Alpine Conversion. He kind of laughed and thought it was a bad idea, since the .45 Colt is "more powerful." The idea of being able to fire all rimless .45 ACP based cartridges through a Redhawk was apparently lost on him. Having seen photos of the .25 ACP J Frame moonclip gun in his book, I was shocked that he would say such a thing in light of how much time and effort he would've put into something as truly useless as a .25 ACP revolver.
Dave Sinko
Dave Sinko
DonD
Member
I usually try to refrain from making disparaging remarks about other people's choices in firearms but David hit the mark in my opinion.
I can't imagine someone as skilled as Bowen and one who made his reputation with big bore revolvers bothering with a .25 ACP, 45 ACP, I can understand but not the .25. Don
Mr. Bowen sometimes does things "just because". I'm sure that was the case with the .25. I really don't think there's much that is "lost on him", though. Anyone who's ever spoken to him, read his book, or used his creations (I have 3 of them) should be able to attest to that. A very sharp and talented man - and arguably the best in the world at what he does . . . I still wouldn't care to own a .25 acp revolver though - but I'm sure someone would.
One question about firing .45 acp's in a .45 Win Mag chamber: After awhile, wouldn't it make the longer WM case difficult to chamber? I would think that, unless you cleaned it VERY well and very often, there might be a buildup at the point where the WM case headspaces, from firing the ACP's. No? It's my understanding that, even with rimless cartridges, there's a ridge in the cylinder for headspacing purposes, so that you can fire them without moon clips??
westkybanded
Member
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What about the .577 Snyder revolver? Any of you ever seen it?
OP
animalmother
Member
"Mr. Bowen sometimes does things "just because". I'm sure that was the case with the .25. I really don't think there's much that is "lost on him", though. Anyone who's ever spoken to him, read his book, or used his creations (I have 3 of them) should be able to attest to that. A very sharp and talented man - and arguably the best in the world at what he does." shuter1
+ 1. Bowen's 25 ACP revolver was an interesting experiment but I would agree that there is not much of a need for one given that 22 revolvers are plentiful and cheap compared to what a converted S&W 25 ACP revolver would cost.
Does anyone know if he made just the one or did he actually make a run of them?
Anyone ever see this gun in real life?
+ 1. Bowen's 25 ACP revolver was an interesting experiment but I would agree that there is not much of a need for one given that 22 revolvers are plentiful and cheap compared to what a converted S&W 25 ACP revolver would cost.
Does anyone know if he made just the one or did he actually make a run of them?
Anyone ever see this gun in real life?
.25 ACP revolver scans
I've only seen this gun in his book. From the text it appears to me that he made only one, although it's a bit ambiguous. When talking about sleeving barrels for instance, he says "Good examples are .32-20 conversions of K'frame Smith & Wesson Model 10s, J-frame .25 ACP conversions or Damascus single-action barrels." That plural "s" on .25 ACP conversions may just be to acknowledge the possibility of someone else, somewhere, doing one.
As regards the .577 revolver (which I would much rather have than a .25, although both would be fun), here's a scanned page from that section:
Besides plain old money, the biggest barrier to the .577 is that it is considered a "destructive device" per the National Firearms Act of 1934. Due to the idiotic hoops one has to jump through, this is likely to be another one-of.
I've only seen this gun in his book. From the text it appears to me that he made only one, although it's a bit ambiguous. When talking about sleeving barrels for instance, he says "Good examples are .32-20 conversions of K'frame Smith & Wesson Model 10s, J-frame .25 ACP conversions or Damascus single-action barrels." That plural "s" on .25 ACP conversions may just be to acknowledge the possibility of someone else, somewhere, doing one.
As regards the .577 revolver (which I would much rather have than a .25, although both would be fun), here's a scanned page from that section:
Besides plain old money, the biggest barrier to the .577 is that it is considered a "destructive device" per the National Firearms Act of 1934. Due to the idiotic hoops one has to jump through, this is likely to be another one-of.
David Sinko
Member
Everything that Bowen does must be done to his high standards or he won't do it at all. When I had him make my Redhawk, I asked if he could groove the trigger. I really detest smooth triggers in DA revolvers. At the request, he paused for a moment and then replied "Nobody has ever asked me to do that before. To do a proper job I'd have to charge you extra to acquire the proper cutters." So I passed. Same with my request for the .45 Winchester Magnum cylinder. Nobody had ever asked him to do that (and frankly I was shocked to learn that I was the first who had ever asked him to do this) and so he'd have to spend a tremendous amount of time getting it just right the first time. He explained that we'd both take a hit; him in terms of hours invested in the one-off, and I'd get it in the wallet and we'd both lose.
With regard to the rimless cartridges, he explained that there are two ways to cut the "lip" in the chamber. The whole explanation was lost on me. My response is simply to use whatever method S&W used in my 625s, since it works perfectly. At the time I really craved a .45 Winchester Magnum cylinder with the chambers cut so that I could fire loose rounds of .45 Win. Mag. without moonclips. In theory it would fire the shorter cartridges only in an emergency. After discovering the 625s and the ability to fire .45 Super in them, I'm glad I didn't spend the extra money on the Redhawk. Even if I had, I'm sure Bowen would've done a flawless job of it.
I'll be the first to admit though, that if I had more money than I ever needed I'd be the first in line to buy that .25 ACP moonclip gun. It really is useless, but it's still neat and I could stare at it for hours and just imagine what kind of time and effort went into making such a thing. It really is the pinnacle of the gunmaker's art and I just can't resist a properly made moonclip gun.
Dave Sinko
With regard to the rimless cartridges, he explained that there are two ways to cut the "lip" in the chamber. The whole explanation was lost on me. My response is simply to use whatever method S&W used in my 625s, since it works perfectly. At the time I really craved a .45 Winchester Magnum cylinder with the chambers cut so that I could fire loose rounds of .45 Win. Mag. without moonclips. In theory it would fire the shorter cartridges only in an emergency. After discovering the 625s and the ability to fire .45 Super in them, I'm glad I didn't spend the extra money on the Redhawk. Even if I had, I'm sure Bowen would've done a flawless job of it.
I'll be the first to admit though, that if I had more money than I ever needed I'd be the first in line to buy that .25 ACP moonclip gun. It really is useless, but it's still neat and I could stare at it for hours and just imagine what kind of time and effort went into making such a thing. It really is the pinnacle of the gunmaker's art and I just can't resist a properly made moonclip gun.
Dave Sinko
