Just got in to my FFL a 2 1/8in .357 Model 60LS Wood Grips Satin Nickel. This is going to be a Christmas Present for my wife. Anyone out there have one of these? I would like to know how they shoot with Magnum loads, as I wouldn't want too much blast for her to handle. She shoots my Ruger Service-Six 4" with magnum loads with no problem. But being this is a lot smaller any imput would be greatly appreciated. I haven't seen the gun yet as it just arrived from Bud's and I am about to go start the CA 10 day background check. I just wanted to get some information on the recoil, what kind of wood the grips are made of, and how it is with full magnum loads and .38 specials. An overall gun report would be appreciated and any information or advise would be great. She has been really patient with my getting a good collection of S&W's going for myself and I know her eyes will pop when she opens the little box on Christmas morning. I work nights on the weekends and her little Baretta Bobcat 21 .22lr I felt wasn't quite enough as crazy as the world is getting out there. So I thought I would kick her up a notch or two. Thanks for your help!

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Craig

I don't have one of those but have used the Rem Golden Sabers in my 3" K-Frame. They're listed as a med velocity round about 200fps less then the full house load. The Winchester Silvertip 145gr is suppose to be another good one for short barrels/lighter recoil.

How well she will tolerate the recoil is anyone's guess. But I'll tell you this: I'm a pretty tough old bird when it comes to recoil, but to say that shooting a magnum J-frame is unpleasant is a major understatement. I can handle it -- but I do not like it. It feels like a pretty good-sized firecracker, or small grenade, going off in my hand . Ever hit a baseball and had that painful twang course back in to your hand through the bat? Multiply that maybe a dozen times, and add to it a startling blast.

Anyone who decides to step down to .38 +p loads will hear no criticism from me.

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Pisgah

The biggest problem I see with shooting magnums from a J frame is the grip. I put the Pacmayrs (sp) on and it becomes manageable. A larger wood 3 finger combat grip, not the 2 finger boot grip, also makes it a bit more manageable but the rubber grips are the best.

If her current defense round is the .22lr then a step up to .38spl or .38 +p should be a good move. The good thing with the magnum J frame is that if the .357 mag is too harsh there are many alternatives in the .38 spl loads.

I have a 3" Mod 60-15 and it handles magnums well with the rubber grips but is a bear trying to control with the 2 finger combat type grip.

1. Gold Dot .357 Short barrel
2. Gold Dot .38 +P Short Barrel if 1 is too much.
3. Lessons and practice if 2 is too hot.
4. Wood grips are pretty, but goodyears help recoil.

Have her shoot it for the first time with 38 wad cutters, The load is mild and it wont turn her off to the recoil.
You can have her pack whatever you wish for self defance, But when she first fires it I recommend the wad cutters.
I personally carry an old model 37 and keep the wadcutters in it at all times because I find that I can empty the cylinder very rapidly into a 4" circle at 45' really fast, Way faster than regular power 38 specials.
I know that some will say I am running too little power with the WC loads, But when I can keep all 5 on target just about as fast as I can pull the trigger I am confident that if needed, My shots will go where I want them,,,,
I have seen some woman turned off to the J frame from shooting higher power loads first time... So WCs is also what I use to introduce new shooters to the wonders of the J frame!!!
Peter

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Need 1/2 moon Chiefs special

PLEASE Skip the 357's!!! As mentioned even seasoned shooters don't enjoy shooting them in a J frame. Putting 357s in that gun to shoot is almost a certain recipe for her never wanting to shoot it again. Give her light 38 target loads to get accustomed to. Then gradually (!), once she's comfy , try some +P 38 loads. Then ASK her if she wants to try 357's. That way she can find her own comfort level. Trust me , she'll be allot more proficient (and able to protect herself) with ANY 38 load if she is proficient and comfortable with the gun. ( Read: a J frame stuffed with 357's is useless if it's home and she's afraid of it.)
In reality, 38 +P is all she'll ever need anyway.
p.s. If you doubt any of this, try shooting 50-100 rounds of any 357 out of that gun before asking her to. ( Don't even have her there as the muzzle blast will likely scare her.)You'll understand then.

pps. Great little gun/gift BTW!

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Dave

I have carried and shot a .41 magnum since 1966.

I got a 640-1 stainless steel .357 for concealed carry. I fired two hot magnum rounds in it. Now my Momma raised some dummies, but they was my sister!!

I now stick with .38+P's in all J-frames.

FWIW

I just finish co-teaching a NRA certified pistol course. A lady, I would guess to be in her mid 50's, (I didn't ask her age as she was over 21) brought one of the Model 60,s .357, 3 inch barrel to the range portion.

Her statement to me was that she could shoot her 4 inch model 19 with factory .357 loads, but with her model 60 she stepped down to .38 special +. because of the recoil.

The range course required all shooter to keep 15 rounds on a 8 inch paper plate/circle at 7 yards. She did it with no problems, and she was shooting mostly DA

She was shooting standard velocity 158 LSWC Factory ammo.

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Semper FI

+a bunch. All good advice so far. My petite wife has a Ladysmith 60-14 with the wood grips. It sure is purty!! It was bought for the added weight/less recoil for when she shoot 38s. I tried 357's and it is not a pleasant experience. Much like shooting 38 +p in a 642. Gloves are also recommended for at the range. After a few cylinders of 38s, the wife's strong hand developed a blister on the web between the thumb & index finger.

Here is another vote for 38 Spl WC loads to start and maybe forever. Standard 38 Spl 158 grain loads at 800 fps are good next choice.

I have a M60 and found that the pretty rosewood grips on it from factory -- same pretty ones as on many M60 LadySmiths -- made the gun hard to control with anything more that 38 Spl WCs, especially in one-handed DA shooting. I ended up with set of Pachmayer Gripper grips and find I can shoot P+ loads nicely (158 grain SWCHP at 950 fps) and shoot almost as well with 158 grain SWCHP GC at 1200 fps. With those Gripper grips I have a far higher level of confidence in hitting target than with any S&W factory standard grips I have tried on that J-frame.

Niklas

I gave a m.60LS to my personal trainer, who is a tall, fit and a very strong lady, with good sized hands, a former body building champion. My advice to her was stick to .38 special, it will do every thing you need it to with less fuss, always assuming that shot placement is primary. The 60LS has those pretty rosewood grips, and overall has a very sexy appeal, but I wouldn't want to tackle magnums with those grips, and I am 6'3" and 230 lbs, and I work out daily. You won't be doing her any favors steering her to magnums, and if you really want to have her continuing interest, then get some .38s, and they don't need to be +P either. Wadcutters sound fine, 158 RNL sounds fine....Don't project on to her your needs/goals/visions/ambitions. My two cents...don't ask me why I believe these things...just call me the Voice of Experience.

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Ed

Craig, if the lady is bothered by the recoil, even with the +P's or just plain Specials, try the Pachmayr SJ-G/D grips. I just got back from the range testing my 'Chief's Special' (model 60 in stainless). The grips being longer and thicker were a great help in taming the .357 magnum rounds. I also found that my gun/hand position helped.

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John

I got to look at the little gun and you all are right. A magnum load would be hard to tame. So when I get it in 10 days I will start her out with some .38wc and go from there. I sure appreciate all your feedback on this, as I never had something this little. Once I actually got to hold it and tried to imagine a .357 in it, I knew it would be too much. I will say one thing it sure is a pretty little piece of work, and she is into wood so I know in advance the grips will stay. So I will start her out as you all suggested and go from there. I want to say again to all who took the time to give me some imput on this, thank you so very, very much. It is nice to deal with some really nice and friendly and knowledgeable people. Hope you all have a great weekend!!!!

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Craig

I like the Gold Dot .38+P Short Barrel in my 60LS. It's enough of a defense load yet remains very controllable and accurate.

PS - I put Crimson Trace laser grips on mine. (The 205 series has since been discontinued and replaced by the 405 which has more rubber comfort molding.)

I bought my wife one for Christmas last year. If it didn't say LadySmith on the side I would carry it. She can not handle the .357 loads, I don't mind them and have on occasion carried it on hikes with .357's in it. She is very recoil sensitive and can handle 38+P with no problems.

I do own and shoot a 60-9 LS and even with Herrett stocks, these are fuller than std J frame grips, on it the .357 loads are not a day at the beach.

BTW, it could be called the "Nancy Pelosi lady ****" and I'd still carry it; it is that nice of a gun.

For me the biggest rap on .357 in a J frame is not the recoil tolerance as much the time between shots. I can place 5 shots of .38 +P in a 6" circle at 15 yards in a very quick time; however, .357 starts to expand those time gaps not to mention the group also opens up. If I could put the .357 in a tight time and space group I would deal with the recoil but so far it hasn't worked that way. I would stick with .38 +P and a set of Ahrends or Herrett short j frame grips. I like the Federal but use Speer +P 129 grain load.

One thing I scratch my head about, the S&W site says the laminated finger-groove rosewood grips on the LadySmith are specially designed ergonomically for the hand of a woman...I cannot spot what they are talking about, and I don't feel that difference either. Maybe I am missing something, anyone able to tell me what is uniquely and ergonomically 'feminine' about those grips?

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Ed

I have had the 60LS for couple of years, grab it quite often for a quick jaunt out of the house. I don't care what it says on the side many folks don't want to be on the receiving end of the Lady Smith (which is both ends with 357s ). However it does take some skill in defensive situations with 357s. The plus P as stated already are easily managed for defense and practice....

The grips seem just a little thin width wise to me, but I have large hands, I could be wrong. That would be the only thing I can see. I kinda think its just the LadySmith on the side that makes the difference than any other M-60

I had a Model 60 in 357, and recoil was pretty tough to deal with, and reasonably quick follow up shots were out of the question. I'd get some hot 38+P, and go with that. I have fired the Buffalo Bore 38+P, and love them. They have more pop than store bought +P, but nowhere near Magnum pop.

I picked up an 60-14 LS at a gun show two years ago and love the gun w/357's, although am a recoil junkie. Recovery time from shot to shot is slowed with full power 357's. As far a defensive ammo goes it is 38+p Short Barrel. Ditch the ****** wood grips and get her a set of good rubber grips. She will thank you for them.

Class III

My wife carries a 60LS and loves to shoot it with regular .38s, not plus P. She found the double action trigger pull too much, but we made in manageable by replacing the trigger return spring.

I agree with this. The first thing I did when I bought a Lady Smith for my wife was to remove the smooth wood grip and replace it with a rubber monogrip. She had been used to shooting a Model 10 with +P rounds and shot my daughter's 686 with magnums in it with no problems (all rubber grips).

My wife in her mid 50's shot her 4" K-Frame 38 special the majority of the time. Was her favorite gun. Until I bought a model 60 .357 3". She LOVES the magnums! Brings a grin to her face every time. Her words were something like, "duh, it is a magnum, and if I wanted to shoot a fluffy gun I would shoot a 22. More ammo please." And I feel the same way shooting full house 125gr 1450fps magnums loads out of the little J-Frame. It does sport the 3 finger rubber grips, and used mostly single action, paper target shooting at 10 yards, with some 25 yard days mixed in. Not a self defense weapon, which in her case is a Sig P238.

My girlfriend shoots with me. She is fifty something and a nurse. She is not really strong for a woman.

Shooting my 3" model 36, I handed it to her. Said fire a cylinder full and tell me what you think. These were standard 158 38s. She fired 2 rounds and handed it back to me. I got the point.

Last week, I let her shoot my 4" model 15-3 with mid range 38s. She liked that one a lot.

First I had her fire one into the dirt to see how much the recoil is. Then she fired the other 4 into a target pretty much in the same hole at 5 yards. Now she really likes this one.

I have not even asked her to shoot my 637.

Wadcutters in the 4" k frame are her friend for now. All she carries is pepper spray right now. She will probably carry my model 36 with some light stuff in time.

David

Hello 5 years ago!!!

Great advice. In the real world only hits count. Miss five times , even with a 357 magnum, will get you killed.
I carry the same ammo for the same reason's.
Gary

has your wife ever fired a "J" frame revolver?

the time to try is before you buy..................

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There's nowt so queer as folk

I have several model 60s, including a stainless 2.25" barrel Ladysmith.

Shooting .357 Magnum loads in 'em isn't much fun.

Doable, sure, but (without being in the least inappropriately sexist), not by most women.
My wife has enough trouble with .38 Special+P loads.

Why give your wife a gun that will hurt her or be truly uncomfortable for her to shoot? Load that Ladysmith with .38 Special (non+P) wadcutters, and go from there.

In any case, recoil recovery with .357 Magnum loads is pretty slow in J-frame guns, and unless you believe in the myth of "one shot stops", you'd do well IMNSHO not to give your wife a revolver and loads that she'll never be able to shoot with any speed.

The Model 60 guns are excellent revolvers, and good for CCW and practice, but use loads that are representative of both what she'll use for practice and what she'll actually carry.

As for the question of blast and flash, a snubby will produce a good deal more in any caliber. Just a fact of short barrels. Years ago I was shooting +P .38 Special stuff in a J-frame at an indoor range and the guy in the next bay was convinced I was using magnum stuff. And he wasn't a greenhorn.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Did you just use Nancy Pelosi and the word "lady" in the same sentence? SHAME ON YOU!

If you reload, get some WC, or SWC and load them up with 3 to 3.5 grains of Bullseye and let her shoot them for awhile.
When she gets proficient with that, step up to the +P's and see how it goes.

If the gun hurts her, it's all over, she won't want to shoot that gun anymore.

ON EDIT: if you get hollow base WC, go with 2.5 grains of Bullseye.

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John

My wife wanted a ls also for Christmas. We have a 60 same model not much fun for her to shoot. She really wanted the ls 642 liked the grips better prettier gun she thought and 38 da smaller also. In June I inquired a good smith lgs they said couldn't assure I'd have one by Christmas. Smith said busy with so many other lines. So looks like the jewelry store for Christmas. I'll get her one another lgs has the ls 60 but they are way high. I'll find her the one she wants in time

There are some good .38 Spcl. and .38 Spcl. +P defense loads. There is no imperative that says she needs to carry the 60 with .357 mags. As someone said, you can start with .38 wadcutters and work up. Get her acclimated to the recoil.

Zombie thread with crazy-long title. 2009, for those who didn't notice, revived by first time poster. There are enough instances of similar questions that a sticky for introducing women to serious calibers should be posted (but not with this long title).