640-1 Question

[jeffrefrig]

An earlier post by Oaktree45 was about how painful it was to shoot .357 Magnums out of this J frame revolver. The guns are pretty lightweight and apparently easily conceal-carry all day type guns. At what distance, realistically, are these guns accurate for an average shooter? It's an obvious self-defense gun, which I would consider 10 yards tops? I understand the .357 Mag will make the attacker stop pretty quick in his tracks. I believe a .38 Spl. +P would pretty much do the same at that close. You need to practice with your CCW once in a while. In a real attack, you're not going to feel the pain of shooting a .357 until maybe tomorrow. Is a .38 Spl really that much less likely to stop the attacker at self-defense distances? I know that some drugs make bad guys "bulletproof", but, I don't know the answer to how much is too much power, etc.?

[DwayneV]

Mine is effective at fifteen yards. Twenty-five yards is challenging.

[Rule3]

Depends on how much you practice. J frames are not easy to shoot unless you do, More depends on shot placement than the ammo. Nothing will stop an attacker if you don't hit them in the right spot. A 38 center of mass is better than a 45 in the arm,

I doubt you will see a situation farther than 10 yards, 30 feet.

If and when I carried a J frame I just had 38+P


It's all a big ongoing debate,

[colt_saa]

Originally Posted by jeffrefrig

An earlier post by Oaktree45 was about how painful it was to shoot .357 Magnums out of this J frame revolver. The guns are pretty lightweight and apparently easily conceal-carry all day type guns. At what distance, realistically, are these guns accurate for an average shooter? It's an obvious self-defense gun, which I would consider 10 yards tops? I understand the .357 Mag will make the attacker stop pretty quick in his tracks. I believe a .38 Spl. +P would pretty much do the same at that close. You need to practice with your CCW once in a while. In a real attack, you're not going to feel the pain of shooting a .357 until maybe tomorrow. Is a .38 Spl really that much less likely to stop the attacker at self-defense distances? I know that some drugs make bad guys "bulletproof", but, I don't know the answer to how much is too much power, etc.?

You will get answers both ways on this. But here is my opinon

More power is always better than less power. I can tell that that I have never interviewed an Officer fresh out of a firefight that said he/she would have felt just as good with a slightly less powerful cartridge.

First off, grips that properly fit your hand are extremely important when it comes to how recoil is transferred from the firearm to you. What the factory supplies on the firearm is not your only choice

Secondly, 357 Magnum is not for everyone, and that is OK. You should carry the most powerful cartridge you can handle. It is a wise person that knows where their limitations are and keeps within them.

So forget about what I carry and what the other Forum members carry and concentrate on what YOU are comfortable with

A 640 loaded with 38 Special that you carry everyday is a much better choice than a 640 loaded with 357 Magnum that you don't want to carry because of the recoil

[hotshot357]

I carry a 640 Pro Series and every time I go to the range I practice with it. I would feel confident up to 20 yards. I have a set of Pach's on mine and the recoil doesn't bother me. I load it with my reloads of 158 gr. hi-tech coated bullets travelling @ 1320 fps. If the bullet don't get the "bad guy" the "Bang" will !! LOL

[Rule3]

Also you mentioned a 640. Steel frame vs alloy makes a big difference. Of course the steel is heavier

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by colt_saa

More power is always better than less power. l

[ContinentalOp]

The maximum distance is going to be dependent on the shooter's skill level. Some people can get center-of-bad-guy at 10 yards. Some people can make head shots at 25 yards. And there are people who can get center-of-mass at 100 yards.

Most self defense encounters are going to be at very close range, most likely within a few feet to a couple of yards, but it doesn't hurt to stretch one's ability as far as one can on occasion. Me, I'm fairly confident with my 642-1 out to about 15 yards.

As for power, the .357 Magnum will definitely generate more power than a .38 Special or .38 Special +P, even out of a 2" barrel. However, you also get more blast, flash, and recoil. Even if you don't feel the recoil under stress, it doesn't change the physics involved so you'll still have slower follow-up shots. Of course, it's up to each individual as to whether that's enough of a difference to choose one over the other.

At the same time, that extra power may not give a significant advantage in the real world. Based on actual shootings, all the service calibers perform about the same. Even the .357 Magnum isn't a guaranteed one-shot stopper. Shot placement is still the most important factor.

The only way for you to determine whether or not it'll work for you is to try it yourself. Some people can handle .357 Magnum from a J-frame and can shoot them well. I know from experience that isn't me. I'll stick with .38 Special or .38 Special +P from a 2" barrel, even if I had a steel J-frame.

[ContinentalOp]

Originally Posted by Rule3

[rubiranch]

Originally Posted by Rule3

If and when I carried a J frame I just had 38+P

My first gun that I bought is a 640-1. I wanted an EDC that was a .357 Magnum.

My brother suggested that I load it with 38 Special - +P 129 Grain Hydra-Shok JHP ammo which I did.

He suggested the 38 ammo for the recoil recovery time.

Due to the weight of the 640-1 I now carry a 642-1 loaded with the same 129 gr hydra shok ammo.

[torizus]

Some 357's, some situations and some people can be adversely affected by flash and noise in some environments that come with short barrel 357s
.
That loss of two of your critical senses can make for a one shot deal. So practice then practice some.

So one might want to make sure you have complete control and awareness of what to expect.

None of this is crucial if you have a good Fred Astaire routine left in ya.

[ContinentalOp]

Just wanted to add that there are also mid-range .357 Magnum loads. The Speer Short-Barrel Gold Dot comes to mind as one example. A little warmer than .38 Special +P but not quite full-power .357 Magnum. That could be another option.

Another point is case extraction. Obviously, .357 Magnum cases are longer than .38 Special cases. Also obvious is that .357 Magnum rounds operate at higher pressures than .38 Special, which means you may be more likely to have "sticky" case extraction with Magnum loads. Add in the short ejector rod on these snubs and you may have some difficulty extracting Magnum cases. Again, this is something that you may have to try for yourself to see if it would be an issue with you and your gun/ammo combo.

[18DAI]

I carried a 640-1 as a BUG for 6 years. As was pointed out, the grip selection makes it easier to control with 357s.

I used Hogue Bantams on mine and Speer 158 grain Gold Dots was the ammo. No, the 640-1 was not a fun range gun. But I never failed to qualify with it.

And the gun is not for shooting bullseyes at 25.....or even 15 yards. It is an up close and personal defensive piece. A great "get off me gun".

So, find an ammo, as powerful as you can shoot effectively out of your 640-1 and practice dumping 5 rounds into a pie plate at 1 to 3 yards. Thats where the 640-1 shines, IMO. Regards 18DAI

[Bill In Texas]

My 640-1 is the gun that I carry most of the time. I try others occasionally, but for the past few years, I keep returning to it.

A couple of reasons for this I think. First one is, ease of carry, the second is I like the.357 round.

That being said, I don't think that I'm particularly recoil sensitive. I practice with the 640 almost every time that I go to the range. I mostly practice at self defense distances and I can get pretty good hits with it.

What does concern me is the flash from the .357 round along with being able to make quick follow up shots. For those reasons my carry round of choice is the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grain .357 bullet. My 640 likes this ammo, and it shoots to POA. I like the extra power it gives me over the same round in .38 special. Hope this helps!

[jeffrefrig]

Yinz have kinda given me the answer; basically, know your limitations. I think about it, I wonder what a .327 Fed Mag would do in that frame? I've got 2 GP100s in .327 FM, and shooting them is like shooting a .22 revolver, but I'll be darned if I carry a bench vise on my hip all day? I know I asked about the .38 vs. the .357, and given the choice in that frame it's definitely for me the .38. Thanks, Jeff

[Rudi]

Another factor is the grips. The standard grips on a 640 are tiny, hard plastic. Not suitable at all for shooting magnums.

[Erich]

Stocks that fit the shooter are important for recoil control and targeting:

[153]

I have Spegel boot grips on my 640. Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip magnums are stout but not painful. I usually run 125 Remington SJHPs and am comfortable with that combination.

[Old cop]

My EDC is a no lock 340PD and I do spend time @ the range w/it. Follow up shots are the real problem, at least for me. The recoil is so severe that rounds two through five are all over the place. The 110 grain +P is pretty mild, making center mass follow up hits pretty routine. FYI the no less than 120 grain round restriction only applies to magnum ammo according to S&W.

[jcelect]

Everyone here wrote about power and distance. My point is distance! Some say max is 10yds other say 20yds and some say more(?)! I say, what is YOUR max distance! A lesson I have learned hunting with a hand gun(longer barrel & much more power) is to know what your max range is and learn to recognize that yardage! This post is about CCW guns, 2" & 3" w/nonadjustable sights. My point still applies! In my younger days I could hit a pop can at 200ft, consistently, with a 3" mod 36, today(?). Know what YOU can do at a longer distance and use the rounds and grips you carry. It will make you better at the closer distances!
IMHO jcelect

[H Richard]

At 10 yards, there are the possible option of getting away without firing a shot. Always the better decision if possible.

[old tanker]

Mine is one of the cop turn-ins sold by Centerfire a few years ago. I carry it with 158 grain LSWC .357 ammo. The factory rubber grips it came with work fine. The recoil is heavy but not sharp and quick like the 125s so is more manageable for me. Inside, at night, the blast and fireball are going to be pretty impressive. Hand size groups at fifteen yards are not uncommon.

[STCM(SW)]

With my grips I can Handel 357 but like 38+P better....

[M29since14]

Originally Posted by H Richard

At 10 yards, there are the possible option of getting away without firing a shot. Always the better decision if possible.

Good thing to remember. But for the sake of discussion, the OP has some good questions. I can’t speak from experience with the 640-1. My J-frame .357 is a 340PD.

Probably like a lot of folks here, I have years and years of experience shooting magnum revolvers. With the 340, that experience only seems to go so far. I’d say my practical distance limit is 5-10 yards. I might do better with plenty of time. With less time, the distance would get shorter accordingly.

As to power, yes, more is better, but how much more does one actually get over .38 +P? In my 340, Winchester Silvertips make it to 1000 FPS, or just a bit more. That’s a 145-gr bullet, and that load is about as hot as I care to handle. That’s about a 20-25% increase in power. Substantial. The real question is, does the extra power justify the ferocious recoil. I think it does, but the limit for me is the Silvertip. Anything that kicks more... forget it.

Bottom line, I think of the gun as 18DAI describes.

[rubiranch]

Originally Posted by Rudi

Another factor is the grips. The standard grips on a 640 are tiny, hard plastic. Not suitable at all for shooting magnums.

upload photos online

I put some smooth Combats on my 640-1.
About the only time I carry it is when I'm wearing a sport coat or a vest and carry it in a nice shoulder holster.

[stansdds]

I put a set of Uncle Mike's rubber boot grips on my 640-1. They make it a far more compact carry piece and they work well in my medium sized hands. I have shot 110 and 125 grain JHP 357 Magnum ammo in mine, but I now stoke it with Speer's 135 grain JHP 38 Special +P Short Barrel ammo. This ammo is quite a bit less powerful, but also produces a lot less blast, flash, and recoil. I generally practice at 25 yards, likely an unreasonable distance, but if I can keep all the shots on a 9 inch paper plate at 25 yards I should have no problem at point-blank to 7 yards.

[rubiranch]

Originally Posted by 18DAI

I carried a 640-1 as a BUG

"BUG" Never heard that before.

[Erich]

Heading to the range with mine today - have some handloads I want to run over the screens.

[18DAI]

BUG = Back Up Gun. Worn on my ankle in a Galco ankle holster, or on my vest in an Uncle Mikes with velcro, or on my off side - IWB - in a DeSantis holster. Regards 18DAI