|
|
02-11-2010, 10:25 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
Liked 13 Times in 6 Posts
|
|
686-4 4" 6-shot: When did Square Butt ---> Round Butt occur?
After much research here (kudos)... My quest for a 4" 686-4 has begun!
Unless I'm on the wrong track, postings indicate that at some point during the Dash 4 production run, S&W changed the frame
from Square Butt to Round Butt (?). If this is correct, can anyone comment on when this change actually occurred?
Unfortunately, I'm finding that it's not as 'simple' as asking the gun's owner. Many will claim a SB, when the gun could very well be an RB
with an RB-->SB Conversion Grip on it. Is there some way to distinguish the two, short of physically removing the grips from the frame
(e.g., Serial Number)?
I'm searching for a Round Butt model because I have a growing collection of RB grips that I'd like to be able to switch between
my K-frame 617 and the L-frame 686.
TIA!
UPDATE: More research seems to indicate that 686-4's with serial #'s in the CBCxxx to CBNxxx (+) range are Round Butt.
Fairly rare, since;
- According to the Smith & Wesson Standard Catalog, 686s changed over to round butts in 1996.
The model 686-5 was introduced in 1997 (thanks stevieboy).
- 686-4 Round Butt Conversion Grip Began in August 1996 with the "CBC" Prefix.
(source: Smith & Wesson 686-4 not 66 4" SS NIB S&W "MINT" : Revolvers at GunBroker.com)
- Both the 686-4 RB in that GB listing and dma1's 686+ -4 have CBN serial numbers...
Good thing the search is half the fun!
Last edited by surfdog76; 02-12-2010 at 03:39 AM.
|
02-12-2010, 03:11 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 948
Likes: 64
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdog76
Unless I'm on the wrong track, postings indicate that at some point during the Dash 4 production run, S&W changed the frame
from Square Butt to Round Butt (?). If this is correct, can anyone comment on when this change actually occurred?
|
1996, according to my copy of the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 3rd Edition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdog76
Unfortunately, I'm finding that it's not as 'simple' as asking the gun's owner. Many will claim a SB, when the gun could very well be an RB
with an RB-->SB Conversion Grip on it. Is there some way to distinguish the two, short of physically removing the grips from the frame
(e.g., Serial Number)?
|
Sure is: if the grips have a square-butt profile, look at the backstrap. If the whole backstrap is exposed, almost all the way down to the bottom of the grips, it's a square-butt. If the grip covers the bottom third of the backstrap, it's a round-butt.
A picture to illustrate:
left-to-right:
Round butt (S&W 15-7, made in August or September 1997)
Square butt (S&W 686-1, made between July 1987 and December 1987)
Round butt (S&W 14-6, made in August or September 1997)
Square butt (S&W 14-5, made in October 1993)
In the foreground is a set of Hogue grips for a K/L-frame round-butt (note the rubber would cover the bottom third of the grip frame).
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdog76
(e.g., Serial Number)?
|
You could do that, too--serial numbers in 1996 and later started with CAMxxxx, though there are exceptions (CLS was in 1995, SDE was in 1994, TWT was in 1986). There will probably be some overlap here, with some 1996 686s having square-butt frames.
Also, according to the SCSW3, the round-butt frame was made exclusively only between 1996 (when the square-butt frame was deleted) and 1997 (when the 686-5 w/ MIM parts) started shipping.
HTH
Last edited by valkyriekl; 02-12-2010 at 03:22 AM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
02-12-2010, 03:43 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
Liked 13 Times in 6 Posts
|
|
Good Man, Valkyriekl... That helps a lot!
PS: I have followed a number of your posts, and have learned a lot (e.g., -4 was first with factory D&T).
Thumbs up!
Last edited by surfdog76; 02-12-2010 at 03:45 AM.
|
02-12-2010, 08:28 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 977
Likes: 1,056
Liked 2,558 Times in 463 Posts
|
|
The 686 4" RB started with the CS-1 of 1988. Were there any other limited runs before the transition?
Nice photos.
Bob Hart #946
|
02-12-2010, 09:01 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,063
Likes: 16
Liked 257 Times in 143 Posts
|
|
Two round butts, 686 3" SN CAC and 686 + 4" SN CAY.
m.
|
02-12-2010, 11:20 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 948
Likes: 64
Liked 113 Times in 46 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdog76
Good Man, Valkyriekl... That helps a lot!
PS: I have followed a number of your posts, and have learned a lot (e.g., -4 was first with factory D&T).
Thumbs up!
|
Sometimes I wish I had never bought the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson--although it gives me a reference with which to speak with authority on this stuff, it also shows me that my collection is woefully incomplete--I think I 'need' a S&W 610 in 10mm now!
Re: looking at backstraps--I just remembered that if the backstrap is completely covered (i.e. one of the new Hogue X-frame grips, or a set of Pachmayrs or Uncle Mikes, or whatever) then looking at the backstrap won't help in determining RB vs. SB. The serial number would help in this case...of course the one sure way to tell is to pull off the grips and look.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-10-2010, 09:38 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between the Brandywines
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 621
Liked 2,947 Times in 1,075 Posts
|
|
What grips came on the 686-4 RB from the factory?
Is this one year production (1996) an anomaly, or are they particularly rare?
|
10-14-2011, 03:22 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
I am new to the forum and I am looking for some information on a revolver that I have owned for more than 20 years. I have a 4 inch 686 with a round-butt, satin finish, and solid black metal sights without the plastic inserts. The original owner claimed that the gun was made for the U.S. Border Patrol when I took him to the Rod & Gun Club in Mainz, Germany to pick it up after he special ordered it. I traded him out of it before he rotated back to the states in 92. I am guessing that we picked it up in 89 or 90. It also has the distinction of having German proof stamps that I guess they added when it was imported; however, I am just looking for info on the pistol itself. Any takers out there?
|
10-14-2011, 03:30 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 779
Likes: 169
Liked 635 Times in 313 Posts
|
|
I owned a 686-4 round butt 4" with prefix BSN.
|
10-14-2011, 03:54 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: missouri
Posts: 387
Likes: 1
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
|
|
Can anybody provide pictures of round and square butts without grips side by side?
|
10-14-2011, 05:19 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 164
Likes: 5
Liked 334 Times in 12 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by slumpy
Can anybody provide pictures of round and square butts without grips side by side?
|
|
10-14-2011, 07:29 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: OK. U.S.A.
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 5
Liked 296 Times in 189 Posts
|
|
I own 686-4...serial number BRS 86XX...definately a square-butt...not for sure when it was made..1990's probably.
I've had several folks tell me the 686-4 was supposed to be a round-butt..butt mine ain't!
|
10-15-2011, 08:30 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie
I own 686-4...serial number BRS 86XX...definately a square-butt...not for sure when it was made..1990's probably.
I've had several folks tell me the 686-4 was supposed to be a round-butt..butt mine ain't!
|
Your “Dash 4” gun was introduced in 1993
It is most definitely a square butt gun, just like it was supposed to be
In the future, if you present the product code number this is more helpful than the serial number in researching model particulars.
This should be on any S&W paperwork you received with the gun and on the labels of the S&W gun box or case.
It is a six digit number starting with either
104XXX
130XXX
148XXX
149XXX
164XXX
170XXX
604XXX
This number ties all the guns sights, stocks, trigger and hammer features to the particular gun
FYI….
|
05-28-2012, 02:48 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 16
Likes: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
|
This thread seems to have expired. But I just found it interesting that I acquired a 686-1 serial # AWD19XX that is definitely a round butt. I took the grips off and compared it to picture in the previous post. Previous posts said 686 round butts started around generation 686-4. Was this some kind of a special run?
|
05-28-2012, 02:57 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Enola, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,386
Likes: 596
Liked 2,640 Times in 1,145 Posts
|
|
686-1s with 2-1/2" barrels had round butts. Otherwise, I can't explain why it does.
I thought almost all 686-4s had round butts but I guess not as many as I thought actually do.
Ed
|
07-16-2016, 10:01 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 30
Likes: 4
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
|
|
I have a 686-5 round butt. Wishing it was square. I wish smith decided to make square butts the standard.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
11-03-2016, 04:51 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9
Likes: 3
Liked 21 Times in 6 Posts
|
|
I just picked up a dash 3 with an 8 3/8" barrel and round butt. I can't wait to shoot it.
|
11-04-2016, 06:18 AM
|
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: The Badger State
Posts: 6,548
Likes: 3,410
Liked 6,481 Times in 3,065 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Gun
I have a 686-5 round butt. Wishing it was square. I wish smith decided to make square butts the standard.
|
Easy solution: buy a round-to-square converstion grip. Will result in the exact same profile as a SB frame. A set of Hogues will set you back about $16, custom grips can run $200+, and every thing in between. All the mfgrs offer them.
__________________
~ S&W aficionado in training ~
|
11-04-2016, 08:02 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 234
Likes: 23
Liked 207 Times in 102 Posts
|
|
I bought mine in 1994, and glad it was square butt, which is what I prefer. I changed my new 617 to a square profile with new Ahrends grip at a cost of $90.
Can I assume the rounded rubber grips, on most of todays revolvers, are in answer to the "home defense" craze?
|
11-04-2016, 08:15 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: A Burb of the Burgh
Posts: 14,825
Likes: 1,736
Liked 19,946 Times in 8,821 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hohmann
I bought mine in 1994, and glad it was square butt, which is what I prefer. I changed my new 617 to a square profile with new Ahrends grip at a cost of $90.
Can I assume the rounded rubber grips, on most of todays revolvers, are in answer to the "home defense" craze?
|
Most feel that round butts conceal easier as the butt doesn't print like a square butt................which is why most short (3" or less) barrel Smiths have "always" had nice round butts.
Edit...... I personally like round butts on guns up to 4" L-frames...... Ns and 6 inch guns are GTG with square butts......
Last edited by BAM-BAM; 11-04-2016 at 08:18 AM.
|
11-04-2016, 08:31 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,658
Likes: 1,769
Liked 3,702 Times in 1,242 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernel Crittenden
Easy solution: buy a round-to-square converstion grip. Will result in the exact same profile as a SB frame. A set of Hogues will set you back about $16, custom grips can run $200+, and every thing in between. All the mfgrs offer them.
|
Kernel is correct. The conversion grips will feel exactly the same in your hand. I have Houge, Ahrends, Altamont and Herrett's wood conversion grips and all look and feel just great.
__________________
Virtue,Liberty & Independence
|
11-04-2016, 09:34 AM
|
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: The Badger State
Posts: 6,548
Likes: 3,410
Liked 6,481 Times in 3,065 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hohmann
....
Can I assume the rounded rubber grips, on most of todays revolvers, are in answer to the "home defense" craze?
|
S&W has been shipping rubber grips on their standard production guns for 30 years, so if it's a "craze" it's not a new one. I suspect there are two primary reasons. Synthetic grips are inexpensive and many shooters like them.
__________________
~ S&W aficionado in training ~
|
04-22-2017, 05:29 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: A Burb of the Burgh
Posts: 14,825
Likes: 1,736
Liked 19,946 Times in 8,821 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkahuna
Just ran across this thread. A recently acquired 686-5
(s/n CDC9xxx) came with a SB. This is per the label on the box, and verified by removing the grip. Ship date is 9025, which should be Jan 25, 1999. This confuses me a bit from what I've read above in earlier posts. Hey, just sayin! Sweet gun either way. I also have a model 620, which I love a lot as well.
|
S&W never throws anything away...... if they find it they use it ..... build a gun around it............. so you were lucky or unlucky...... but if you like it you have a "transitional" which some folks actually look for !!!!
Last edited by BAM-BAM; 04-22-2017 at 05:31 PM.
|
04-25-2017, 08:06 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 20
Likes: 5
Liked 24 Times in 13 Posts
|
|
Originally Posted by Valkahuna
Just ran across this thread. A recently acquired 686-5
(s/n CDC9xxx) came with a SB. This is per the label on the box, and verified by removing the grip. Ship date is 9025, which should be Jan 25, 1999. This confuses me a bit from what I've read above in earlier posts. Hey, just sayin! Sweet gun either way. I also have a model 620, which I love a lot as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM
S&W never throws anything away...... if they find it they use it ..... build a gun around it............. so you were lucky or unlucky...... but if you like it you have a "transitional" which some folks actually look for !!!!
|
After I posted the reply above I noticed that I had screwed up, and so deleted my reply. Then I found Bam-Bam had replied to my post, so I need to clarify so as to not leave bad info out there. The label on the box of my 686-5 shows "SB" under "Stock". However, the frame is definitely a RB, and due to brain fade I mis-posted that it was a SB. I just want to correct the now deleted post in case someone is tracking these things to establish a reference of Serial numbers, frames, ship dates etc. It is not a big deal, but I am too anal to let bad info on my part go. Sorry!
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|