If you go with a J frame, I would recommend the Model 60. I think it would be advantageous having the single action option in the field.

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Centennial Every Day

Weight is always an issue for backpackers, but many backpackers ignore vital tactical issues to save a few ounces. I’d let the primary threats of wolves/black bears/drunken idiots should drive your choice.

The 357 is probably adequate wolf medicine, but they work in packs so you may need more than six shots, and you’ll need them fast. That makes me think moon clips or a high-cap mag. The 357 strikes me as very light for bear defense, but five shots will probably be plenty, which makes me think of a 44 or 45. Anything adequate for bears or wolves would do for drunken college kids, so that’s a wash.

Based on that, I’m thinking of a scandium 44 backed up by speedloaders or a scandium 45 ACP and moon clips. The scandium N-frames are only a few ounces heavier than the 640. The ammo is heavier, but you’ll have the right thing when you need it.

After all, nothing is heavier than gear that turns out to be useless because it fails you when you need it.


Okie John

I'm looking for a new revolver to take with me on a 60+ mile backpacking trip along the superior hiking trail (northern MN) but then to have as my go to camping gun. I take a few trips a year to the BWCA and voyagers Nat. park.

Weight is an issue as is caliber. I already know that I can't handle the magnum loads in the ultra light J frames, but .38+p is alright.

My first thought was to get a 442 or 642 and it could double as another city carry option, but then I'm thinking that I might want the .357mag so I'm also looking at the 640.

What are your thoughts?
There are black bear, wolves and moose...although they've never been an issue so far.
My only problem thus far has been with drunk jock type college kids and last year we had a feisty raccoon try to attack one of my friends.

I've thought about a pistol but I don't want to have to worry about it getting exposed to the element or getting submerged in water and not being able to clean/lube it for a week.

Thanks in advance!!

Among the choices you mention, I'd go with the 640. I'd also look at an SP101 or a 686 w/ the two and a half in. barrel if you're really going to load .357's.

When backpacking, canoe tripping, fishing or boating my favorite fun is the S&W 60-10 (the new ones with the IL are the 60-15s). It has a 3" full underlug barrel and shoots as well with full .357s as does a 3" K-frame.

When backpacking I carry the gun and extra ammo in a pouch on the left side of the hipbelt. Doesn't alarm Greenies and is right there when I need it...



Ammo for penetration on bears would be the Fereral CastCore .357 Magnum. Right now I have some Sellier&Ballott 158 spire point fmj.

This gun has done a week on the St. John's River in Maine with 7/7 rain days as well as The Moose River trip just to name two...it has been soaked and not maintained till it arrived home with no damage...


As to weight...the extra pound means nothing if it could be your life.

Bob

Superman,
Where did you get the pancake holster?
Sarge1644

Consider a Glock, perhaps the light and compact Model 36 in .45ACP. It's about impervious to the elements, quick and easy to field strip without tools (unlike revolvers), can easily be modified to accept a lanyard, and if it gets dunked, just field strip it, wipe it down or rap on a stump to dislodge H20, and you're back in business (not so with a revolver --- don't ask me how I know).

Thanks for all your thought. You've definitely given me something things to think about.

The glock 36 intrigues me. I've never actually fired a glock so I might have to look into it. Is the .45 round a decent choice for my purposes? I'd have to believe that recoil would be a bit tamer.

As far as the other suggestions, I'll certainly look into those as well. Cost is a bit of an issue. My budget is maxed at about $600 right now.

I would look at a small 22 mag revolver such as the Taurus 941 or the S&W equivalent. They hold 8 shots and a full box of ammo takes up almost no space. It sounds like the firearm will be as much for your own piece of mind as anything. Nothing wrong with that of course. If you do happen to fire a warning shot at drunk teenagers a 22 mag sounds louder than a 44 mag anyway, and will certainly be enough to handle a wayward raccoon..

Weight is always an issue for backpackers, but many of them overlook key tactical issues in a quest to save a few ounces. Instead, I’d let the primary threats (wolves/black bears/drunken idiots) drive your choice.

The 357 is probably adequate wolf medicine, but they work in packs so you may need more than six shots, and you’ll need them fast. That makes me think moon clips or a high-cap mag. The 357 strikes me as very light for bear defense, but six shots will probably be plenty, which makes me think of a 44 or 45. And anything good for bears or wolves would do for drunks, so that’s a wash.

I’m thinking a scandium 44 or 45 backed up by speedloaders or moon clips might be the way to go. These guns are only a few ounces heavier than a 640. The ammo is heavier, but you’ll have the right thing when you need it.

After all, nothing is heavier than gear that turns out to be useless because it fails you when you need it.


Okie John

This is my camping/hiking/fishing gun. When I'm doing these things I'm always always in the CA/NV Sierra high desert. No wolves around, lots of mangy looking coyotes, a good amount of black bear and I'm sure a healthy dose of bad 2 legged vermin.

I'm comfortable with being able to death with nearly all threats I might face up there. It's a 586-7 seven shot .357 with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast lead flat points. (rounds in picture not my normal mountain carry rounds).

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~ S&WCA No.2159 ~

Love the matching grips BlackSky.

If you are serious, leave the poofter piece at home. The 329pd is the backpacking revolver. But you have to man-up those wrists for it.

329pd information

I think that you hit the nail right on the head and I didn't even realize it. Now that we're allowed to carry in National Parks(with state carry permit) I just want to for my own piece of mind. Much like I do everyday. It's just that the possible threats have changed.
Thousands enjoy the outdoors up there every year and never had much if any trouble.

Thinking about it that way, I'll probably go with the 642 load up with the best rounds that I can get and should the worst happen, well who knows if anything larger would have helped.

Are there any recommendations on ammo in .38 special/+P for my situation?

A big consideration is your plans for the gun. Do you plan on shooting it on your hike, or is it just for defense? Ammo is heavy, centerfire ammo heavier. Heavy recoiling ammo suitable for defense is unpleasant to very unpleasant to fire. Accuracy can suffer from that, too.

Think back on the number of times you've used your handgun for defensive purposes on hikes. Yes, I know the number and don't try to divide by it. Even a nice 22 will impart terrific confidence, as compared with a piece of firewood. For that reason (and a wide range of ammo you can even carry along with you), the best camp gun, by a wide margin, is an accurate little 22. I'd stay away from 22 mags because of the muzzle blast, and the need for ear muffs (along with ear plugs) on 351s. Yes, I own one and like it, but its not a plinker. Probably the best gun for camp and backpacking use is one of the old M43s. You can even carry along CB caps for nearly noiseless shooting. And Stingers and the like for more social purposes.

Once you step up to the 38 range, ammo becomes a problem. You just can't carry enough to have a lot of fun. When you get up into .357 guns, recoil becomes a terrible issue. The guns can be light enough to carry, but you pay the price on ammo. Carrying an variety of loads for different uses almost disqualifies the guns for camp uses. They're fine for defense. I tend to prefer a slightly longer barrel, but you can find nice 3" 337-1s, 386, etc. Light, powerful, but somewhat unpleasant to fire in any volume of shots. Or even a nice little 396 in 44 Special.

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Dick Burg

Very good information and you're input is very appreciated.
The main purpose is strictly defense when camping.
I also like the idea of being able to use it as a second option to everyday carry(not that that's a deciding factor)
I'd simply just like to have something more that a .22.

dla,
Maybe you're right but that's not going to happen anytime soon. I've shot .357mags and a 5" 629 with target loads.
.357's are fine in the right frame.
The 629 was just too much for me. I know my limitations. thanks

Lighter is better.

Emory

+1..I have packed thoughout the Northern Rockies my whole life...I either carry my 3" 317 or my 642. The only time I ever used one (the 317) was to kill a grouse to suppliment my meals. They call the 317 a "kit gun" for a good reason...it is always in my "kit". Lightweight and very adequate when loaded with Stinger HP's.
I don't know about you, but trying to put down a bear that is coming at you with the speed of a quarter horse with anything less than a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot is pretty much futile.. on the other hand I don't know of a 2 legged predator who would care to mix it up when a revolver is pointed at them, no matter the size of the hole at the end of the barrel....JMHO

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You'll shoot your eye out kid

I personally carry 3 in .44 Mag while camping / hiking

Something to consider.. the Glock 30 and the Glock 36 (both .45) are practically identical in size.

they are the same size in height and length,
G30: LENGTH - 6.77 in. HEIGHT - 4.76 in.
G36: LENGTH - 6.77 in. HEIGHT - 4.76 in.

The difference: Width.
G30: 1.27 in
G36: 1.13 in
difference of .14 in.

The 36 is about 3 oz lighter.

As far as capacity
G30: 9, 10 (standard mag), or 13 rounds
G36: 6 rounds

So.. the G30 is .14 inches wider, 3 oz heavier, but holds 10 rounds standard.

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- The Federalist #46 -

I usually go with a 3" Ruger SP101 for that purpose. I don't worry about heavier 357 Mag loads being used in it, and even though it is a little heavier than the S&W is much easier to shoot well because of where that weight is located.

If I needed something bigger, the 3" S&W 696 with some suitable 44SP handloads would go. The L-frame carries OK. Better, a 329PD if I had one. But both of those are likely out of your budget range, if you can find them.

There is always the S&W 1006 or whatever the Glock is in 10mm. That can be a very potent protection pistol with the right load! In bear, wolf, or meth head country, it isn't a bad choice.

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" I said, good DAY! "

You have received a lot of great replies here and I asked myself this question a few years ago. What I did was I started with a .22 and over time, I came up with a two gun system. I carry a 3 inch 317 in .22 and with that I carry 100 rounds of CCI mini mags and a box of CCI shotshells. I also carry a 329 and use 2 ammo wallets that hold 18 rounds in each of .44 mag/special. In the wallets I carry shotshell, HP, Hardcast, in different grains. I figure 42 rounds of .44 and 110 of .22 LR give me a huge spectrum of situations to deal with. From small game survival to black bear ability these two guns cover it. I pack one and carry the other in a simply rigged chesty puller system.

I have hiked in the Sierras quite a bit over the years. I have run across a few black bear (up to about 350 lbs.) and mountain lions. Neither have ever presented a problem, but the potential is always there. My carry choices have fluctuated between a 3" 686 or SP101 loaded with 180 grain FP or a 696 loaded with 240 gr. gas-checked hard cast FP. All are concealable and not overly heavy.

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Dave Frost

I would guess that you have enough pistol selection input to carry you through.

If you are going into an area that has a history of bear issues, I offer one suggestion. Wear a bell hung where it will swing, giving a noise to alert bears of your approach and avoid an unpleasant surprise situation.

I hunt some where grizzlies are a concern, and the locals who are guides on occasion require their use. Lots better than rounding a turn or topping a rise and finding yourself between a sow and her cubs!

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Incoming fire has right of way

I think a 686 is more than fine for the job. I've seen many black bears while I was out and about, and not one of them has ever been aggressive in any way. They run away, or otherwise quickly exit, is what my experience with them is. A pack of wolves isn't likely to continue attacking once you start plinking them, and so that 686 with 1 or 2 speed strips or speed loaders should take very good care of your skin out there. Its the 2 legged critters you'd have more to worry about.
There is almost always a .357 on my belt when I am woods walking in some way. If not there, its under my shoulder, or very close at hand. It'll kill anything I would ever encounter out there. But if I lived in grizzly country, I'd certainly have something bigger.

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Geoff. Since 1960.

But the grip on a G30 is so darned big that you need to have a BIG hand to use it properly. Few women can use one without turning their hand so much that the bore isn't in-line with their forearm, like it should be. The G36 grip fits more people and many women can shoot it well. When I bought my first Glock 36, my wife took it away from me for her own use as soon as I walked in the door with it. I had to go buy another for myself. She still carries it almost every day, and she shoots it VERY well! A 6-shot gun that fits is better than a 10-shot gun that doesn't fit. The G30 doesn't fit me either.

I'm sometimes amused by the "National Geographic" perspectives on black bears. If you've spent any time in the BWCA, you've probably learned that bears are very rarely dangerous. However, people habituated bears are hardly rare, especially on the "entry" lakes, and they can be a royal nuisance.

Nearly twenty years ago, a buddy and I were just coming out of the Boundary Waters after a week in late September. I had a shotgun along to take advantage of the grouse season, and they were everywhere that year. On our last afternoon, we were just setting up camp when "Yogi" came wandering in like he owned the place. He sat on his butt about 50' from us and ogled our food pack. Saliva drooled from his mouth as he alternately looked at us and then our pack. We got some great pictures.

When we'd satisfied our photo needs, we decided to "beat the pans" and scare Yogi away, but he'd seen all those acts before, and they bored him. Resorting to more serious methods, I shot over his head with my 12 ga. That prompted Yogi to withdraw a bit, but he continued to circle our camp, perhaps forty yards out. Deciding that discretion was the better part of valor, we conceded the territory to its master and moved on.

At no time was this bear aggressive, but he wasn't the least bit intimidated, either. I went home after this incident and purchased my first handgun, a stainless Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 mag. That piece of kit accompanied me on all subsequent canoe trips, riding in a shoulder holster. I've never needed it, but I confess, it's presence made my pillow more comfortable at night. And I didn't much worry about the derision with which "more enlightened" campers may have regarded me.

PC

I bear hunt in Grizzler country. Spot and stalk for miles upon miles. I pack in and live for 5-7 days with what I bring in my pack. My revolver is the S&W 629 with 320 grain gas check LBTs with gross amounts of H110.

Heavy??? Not as heavy as a Grizzler setting on your chest eating your face.

I see an avearage of 5 per trip.

WC

Attached Images

629.jpg (37.9 KB, 235 views)

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.357 Magnum - 8 Times

Well I truly appreciate all of the insight.
I decided on the 442. I know that many of you are shaking your heads right now and I understand and respect that. It's just my gun budget is limited and the 642/442 had been on my list for a while for normal carry.

As, it's been posted. This gun is really more for piece of mind while out on trail.
I'm also aware that black bears and wolves really aren't all that aggressive towards people so long as you respect nature and educate yourself to their habits. It's my opinion and maybe I'm wrong, but a .38+p should be enough to deter most threats that I may encounter. Hey, it's got to be better than not carrying anything out there like I've done for the past few years.
If I feel under gunned this year I'll certainly look to something larger for next season.

Thanks again everyone

My choice was pronounced as a 'perfect packing pistol' - a .45 Colt 625MG. Big & heavy, and only either a pack or holster carry, I never took it on my day hikes. Skip ahead a bit - my 296 had a Mika pocket holster fitted for it. It fits my hiking pants' front pockets. Loaded with a first and second 240gr LSWC - and subsequent chambers, as well as the HKS #CA44 speedloader, carries Georgia Arms 200gr Gold Dots. It should suffice for most threats here in the SE, even camping.

Stainz

great choices here...the frontier was settled largely by those carrying big bore black powder arms....not that I'm going to do the Holy Black mantra...but I do prefer something starting with a "4" on such outings.

Anything is better than nothing.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

Carrying a revolver (legally) while camping/hiking does in fact give the user a sense of comfort.
But the average hiker has a much bigger chance of getting lost and suffering from hypothermia/starvation than being attacked by wolves or Bear. Those bear statistics are very low.

If one does become lost, a good .22 can put meat in the pot and also be used to signal for help. The guns as per their ammo are usually both light in weight. A 38(+P)/357 J or K frame is a good choice for general carry, but I like a model 18 myself with a 50 rd plastic box that has 25rds CCI subsonic and 25 rds CCI stinger. My 18 shoots them both accurately.

I own a model 28 N Frame, but it is not on my hip as often as my 18.
I really don't go in the woods figuring on meeting a bear. Although I have read plenty about their body language as to learn the do's & dont's.

When choosing a revolver for carry, choose what you can shoot accurately, what feels good on your hip (revolvers don't do too much good buried in a pack), and what might be used to gather food.

There are multiple threads debating which big caliber works best for bear, etc... But I've been hiking and camping for years and if the exception was norm, I probably wouldn't go in the woods.
In other words, be safe but don't be paranoid either. Just my opinion.

The OP made his choice, but we gun gurus keep on posting! I have done a lot of hiking and backpacking over the years, mostly in NW Montana, and have carried a number of different guns depending on a number of things, not the least of which was simply what I had available. For years as a young man I carried a S&W 67 38 Special simply because it was stainless and thus weather/rust resistant, and not too terribly heavy. Nowadays I carry a 3" 317 and a 4" 500. The 500 is a hefty load, but that bit of mass on my hip is quite reassuring.

I think his choice is just fine. I also believe that where he is going a 22 revolver would be used more often than not. It is so easy to get carried away with wolf and bear stories. I hunted in Kodiak and did not carry my Model 29, always with me while salmon fishing in Alaska.

I assume you aren't out there alone - the "buddy system" has always been a requirement with the guys I hang out with. Typically there are four of us. One carries the big gun, usually a 629 with a total of 12 very capable rounds. The remaining guys had kits guns, usually 22's, but a 38 now and then.

While I love my Smith's, I'd certainly second the suggestion for a Glock. They are reliable, lightweight, and if you do bang one on a rock, and it might happen to make a mark, who cares.

The full-size G31 is a 16-shot .357 SIG that will nearly duplicate the ballistics of the .357 magnum. Carry maybe one extra magazine, and you should be good to go with 31 rounds of bang-bang on hand in a gun you basically can't hurt.

And easily done on a $600 budget including a holster and ammo.

I'm brutally rough on my carry guns, and therefore 95% of the time it is a Glock.

The Highlander

Only time that I seen black bears while hiking/canoeing was back in the earlier 80s when I was a boy scout at Philmont NM or Charles L. Summers Canoe base in MN. Only had a folding knife on me at the times. Since then in the early 90s I usually had on me a 3" M13 or 3" CA Bulldog in a Smith & Wesson shoulder rig. Most of my "hiking" around the world usually carried a long gun in hands carrying some very heavy loads, thanks Uncle Sam.

I just ordered a new 442 Pro Series for my EDC gun when I get home. Have thought about the Night Guard series for a perfect backpacking gun also as the night sight would come very useful when things go bump in the campsite at night. Wish I could find a 357PD 4" model one of these days also as my favorite caliber is the .41 Mag.

CD

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De Oppresso Liber

Simply Rugged of Alaska...

Bob

I WOULD SUGGEST A 2 1/2" 686 FOR PORTABILITY, RELIABILITY, DURABILITY, AND AMMO CHOICES. I HAVE AN EXCELLENT 686-3, WITH AN S&W HOLSTER THAT I WOULD SELL. E-MAIL ME AT [email protected] IF YOU'RE INTERESTED.........

Too many choices, none perfect for everything. A 22 is not a choice if you carry expecting to encounter bear or cats. If you just want a survival weapon, the 22 is clearly the best choice in that it will do most everything and they are lighter in frame and ammo.

I like my 696. Carries well, big bore, SS, nearly 'kit' gun size. Yes, ammo is heavy but a wallet goes along way to allow carrying extra. In summary, not to heavy, not to light, all around capable caliber (not perfect, but will work in most instances), and controllable for most practiced shooters. Yes, hard to find now and expensive when located. Closest thing to it, a 686 with the same barrel length.

You did make a good choice for your needs.....congrats.

Mr. Cartwright makes a VERY important point about habituated bears! A wild bear isn't all that much to worry about, however a bear that has successfully stolen a pack or raided a camp is like a hand grenade with the pin removed! The problem is you never know WHICH bear you are going to run into until you've run into it! ANY gun is better than your fingernails, but if you are going to be in bear country, something that will at least minimally handle the problem should go with you to the woods. Bear spray has a good record, but NOT on bears that have been sprayed before!

By the way, I know what I'm talking about. The last 19 years of my Forest Service career were spent on the Tongass National Forest in Alaska, with my last 11 years on Admiralty Island National Monument... the Tlinget name for which is Kootznoowoo: The Fortress of the Bears. By latest estimate there is one Brown Bear for every 0.8 square miles on Admiralty Island! (There are no black bears on Admiralty Island.) The Tongass National Forest sends one firearm to the woods for every three crew members at work (If you have four people on your crew, the crew will have two rifles.) On the North end of the Tongass, where the crews work mostly in Brown Bear country, that rifle is a .375 H&H. People who work in areas where only black bears are encountered can carry a rifle (still a .375 H&H) or a shotgun with Brenneke slugs.

Needless to say, if I go camping, hiking, or fishing on Admiralty, I go armed. I can't think of anyone right offhand who doesn't do the same thing. If you need to shoot a bear, it will seem to you that there is no gun big enough. That said, a small gun you have with you is worth much more to you than a big gun you left in camp or at home because it was too big to comfortably take with you. On Admiralty my wife carries the same Glock 36 that she carries for two-legged critters in town. It isn't the perfect choice, but she shoots it very well (ask the many men she regularly beats in the local shooting competitions) and she doesn't mind carrying it. For Admiralty Island carry she changes from all 230 grain Hydra-shocks to alternating 230 grain hard-ball and Hydra-shocks. She doesn't shoot a .44 magnum well, which is why she stays with the Glock 36. Contrary to popular myth, a 230 grain hard ball WILL make it to the brain of a Brown Bear with a PROPERLY PLACED head shot. For me, if I'm hunting and carrying a rifle, I carry one of my Smith & Wesson .22 Kit Guns (for shooting grouse). If I have a rifle I figure I don't need a handgun. If I'm not carrying a rifle, I carry one of three guns: a fixed sight 2.5 inch S&W M629 with Federal 300 grain Castcores, a 4 5/8" Ruger single action in .45 Colt with handloads topped with 335 Grain LBT bullets, or a 3 inch S&W M60 with 180 grain LBT bullets. Some might say the M60 is too light for Brown Bears... this is true, but ALL handguns are too light for shooting Brown Bears; any handgun is better than your fingernails. I won't shoot unless there is no choice, and any gun in the hand is better than the one at home.

Since I started working on the Tongass National Forest, Forest Service crews have probably had to shoot on the average one bear every three years. One thing that I noticed is that these bears weighed between 350 and 600 pounds. A 600 pound Brown Bear is not a small animal, but it is NOT a big Brown Bear! People very seldom have problems with unwounded bears, but they almost NEVER have problems with unwounded BIG Brown Bears. Big Brown Bears are EXTRMELY smart. They get big by avoiding people. Even a 600 pound bear is in a different class than a 1200 pound Brown Bear and don't require the power it takes to kill such a big bear. (Yes, they do get that big. My second year in Alaska a Forest Service biologist was with a researcher who was weighing brown bears as they came out of hibernation in late May or early June. From the helicopter above timber line in the snow they watched a big bear dig its way out of its den. They darted it and weighed it and it weighed 940 lbs the day it came out of hibernation! They usually put on 100 lbs per month before they go back into hibernation. You do the math.) You have trouble with smaller bears because they are trying to work out their place in the pecking order, or they are females protecting their young. A 350 to 600 pound bear that has decided he/she wants to take you on still requires a lot of killing, but you aren't likely to have to take on a real monster. If you go armed you will probably never use the gun. I believe much of the reason you don't have problems is because if you are armed you have confidence and you don't give off the vibrations of someone without confidence. People who are afraid appear to be food to predators. This may seem funny to some people, but I honestly believe it.

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Travel light..stay aware..