Any truth to K-frames having best trigger?

RetLawman590 · #1 05-05-2010, 04:38 PM

Hi,

I was almost set to purchase the 386NG L-frame, but have read a few posts that the K-frames have better triggers. The 386 that I dry fired had a gritty DA, but they didn't have a 315NG to compare. Any truth to this? I'm now reconsidering the 315 K-frame.

Thanks

David Sinko · #2 05-05-2010, 05:40 PM

Anything can be smoothed out to provide a nice trigger pull. I think the K Frame feels the best to many people because it's the ideal size. The reach to the N Frame trigger is a bit longer and this causes the trigger finger to have to work a little harder. The J Frame is just too small and most shooters are forced to put too much trigger finger across the trigger, ruining the feel.

Dave Sinko

aterry33 · #3 05-05-2010, 05:49 PM

J frames have a coil spring which many people (including myself) feel results in a heavier trigger pull that can be more difficult to tune, as opposed to the leaf mainsprings in K and N frames.

Still worlds better than a Ruger

scooter123 · #4 05-05-2010, 06:05 PM

The K, L, and N frames all use basically the same lockwork. While there are some minor differences due to cylinder capacity, in funtion they are basically identical.

If you find the DA trigger a bit gritty, that is an issue that will resolve itself with use, or by dry firing the gun. I recently did some action work on a newer 610 and 620 and what I found was that the only thing required was a change in the rebound spring and a drop of oil on the rebound slide. Normally, the DA sear on the trigger needs to be polished during an action tuning but I found that the range use and dry fire practice that I had done with these guns prior to opening them up had already polished the bearing surface on the DA sear on the trigger.

Bottomline, don't worry about that gritty DA pull, it will clear up in 300 or 400 DA trigger pulls. If that isn't good enough, pick up the shop manual from Brownell's and do a little action tuning yourself, it's not at all difficult and only takes 15 or 20 minutes once you develop a "feel" for getting the sideplate nested in.

BTW, features present in the newer lockwork that used to have to be added during and action tuning. Add a chamfer to the DA sear lever on the hammer, this is already present on the newer guns. Add a chamfer to the one corner on the rebound slide to reduce corner drag, this area is radiused on the newer guns. Stone the 2 bearing surfaces on the rebound slide, the newer rebound slides have a superb surface finish.

About the only surface that may need attention is the DA sear on the trigger, that does have a slightly rough surface on a brand new part. As noted, this surface self polishes with use, so simply using the gun will take care of that surface. However, if you want to touch it up yourself, I would recomend using a 1000 grit stone and using a very light touch to just smooth the surface a bit without removing any significant amount of material or altering it's shape.

If you want to lighten the trigger pull a bit, I would recomend a rebound spring no lighter than 14 lbs. I'll also tell you to purchase the special tool for installing the rebound spring, frankly I don't think it's possible to install the rebound slide without this tool. I tried a 12 lbs rebound spring in my 610 and while it functioned perfectly during dry fire function tests, the trigger failed to reset twice in 48 rounds of live fire practice. Obviously, the recoil during live fire had some effect on the rebound slide returning properly, so going to light on this spring isn't the best choice.

BTW, a weaker rebound spring will also reduce the trigger pull in Single Action. I would estimate that with the 12 lbs. spring in place in the 610 the SA trigger pull was reduced to about 2 lbs., with the 14 lbs. spring the SA pull is probably between 2.5 and 3 lbs.

Stainz · #5 05-05-2010, 07:38 PM

My later new S&W's have been delivered dry inside - they need some lubrication. I have flooded some with aerosol RemOil, then dry-fired 500-1,000 times, then flood again with RemOil to remove wear waste, the problem being drying the innards of excess lube. I generally then replace the trigger rebound spring - and usually the hammer leaf. Some, like my 296 and 642, don't have enough entry/exit points, as they have enclosed hammers. They require sideplate removal for initial cleaning & lube. Even though the rebound slides are nicely made MIM parts, I usuall pass them over an oiled flat Arkansas hard stone to remove any vestige of the flash I have found on some of them. A small amount of oil on both sides of the hammer & trigger at the axis, and on both bearing surfaces of the rebound slide, helps, too. Remember - a little goes a long way.

The balance of a partial or no-lug K-frame 4" is just about right for the majority of shooters. All the trigger work you perform on a standard 4" 686 won't make it 'feel' as good as a 4" 66 - or 64. They must be experienced. The K-frame can be tweaked as can the L & N frames. The difference is in the pawl/hand, needed angular movement of the cylinder, and cylinder rotational mass. K- frames were all 6-shooters - untill the X10 617s. L-frames are 5, 6, & 7 shooters. N-frames are 6 or 8 shooters, There is a difference in trigger pull! In all seriousness, the weight, balance, and trigger pull on a K-frame .38 or .357M is just about perfect.

I wish I had bought a 4" 66 several years ago when my pusher bought a bunch of those last ones - two piece barrel, MIM, etc, stil a 4" 66. My loss!

Stainz

Ace-3 · #6 05-05-2010, 07:52 PM

I like and use the ISMI 10% reduced power rebound spring from Brownells. I have put this in several revolvers and shot 10’s of 1000’s of rounds all DA no problems. The tool is a must.

10mmillie · #7 05-05-2010, 08:05 PM

I'd have to say no. The smoothest Smith I ever owned was a 610. It was smooth as silk straight from the factory and beat an K or L frame I ever owned or shot.

colt_saa · #8 05-06-2010, 03:19 AM

X-frames have the best triggers.

The scaled up size of some of the internal parts give it more mechanical leverage.

Though any trigger will improve with time. Dry fire that 386 200 times a night for a month while watching the news and you will be surprised how smooth it gets.

anchors · #9 05-06-2010, 06:51 AM

My 640-1 DA only has a much smoother trigger than my mdl 10-5.I'm not knocking the mdl 10,but I shoot the 640 better.

RetLawman590 · #10 05-06-2010, 04:38 PM

Thanks for some really good info on the subject.

MakeMyNight · #11 05-06-2010, 08:02 PM

FWIW: Installing Wilson Combat or Wolff springs will make a phenomenal difference in revolver actions. Plus, if You're handy, there are a few things You can perform on ANY S&W revolver action, which further enhance the shoot-ability of the hand gun.

gwalchmai · #12 05-06-2010, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colt_saa

Though any trigger will improve with time. Dry fire that 386 200 times a night for a month while watching the news and you will be surprised how smooth it gets.

Not to mention that improved hand strength makes a trigger feel smoother and lighter.

I agree about the X-frame. I was amazed at how well the 500 Mag shot when I first fired one.

Chriss · #13 05-07-2010, 01:41 AM

Any truth to K-frames having best trigger?

No.

500 Magnum Nut · #14 05-07-2010, 06:02 AM

The K frames can have the lightest DA trigger because the cylinders have less mass. Less mass means less weight to spin.

So the K frames have the best triggers.

Tom Servo · #15 05-07-2010, 01:23 PM

So, a less massive cylinder, but with a leaf mainspring=a better trigger? That may explain it.

I've always found the K-Frames to have better triggers, but given that the grip and trigger reach are so natural to me, I was assuming it was just subjective.

roaddog28 · #16 05-07-2010, 01:48 PM

Hi,

For me the K frame is the best handling revolver for the size of my hands. I have no problems reaching the trigger and shoot the best with any of my K frames. My K frames include a M&P 38 special, M10 and M66. I have had or have L frames and N frames. While all of my Smiths have great triggers I just think the K frames suit more of the average shooters. Not too heavy, balanced, point well and are accurate. Not to say my L and N frames are not accurate but I shoot a little better with my K frames. Could be that I have very small hands.

Regards,
roaddog28

DonD · #17 05-07-2010, 02:43 PM

A question for those with significant revolver experience. Is there anything to be gained by substituting Wolff springs for S&W factory springs in a Model 500? Understand that I'm not willing to sacrifice primer ignition reliability for an improved trigger. Thanks, Don

gwalchmai · #18 05-07-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonD

A question for those with significant revolver experience. Is there anything to be gained by substituting Wolff springs for S&W factory springs in a Model 500? Understand that I'm not willing to sacrifice primer ignition reliability for an improved trigger. Thanks, Don

Try these, they help a lot -
Gripmaster Hand & Finger Exerciser Pictures

scout II · #19 05-07-2010, 05:14 PM

I just got back from the range.I shot my model 586-1,model 28-3,model 66-2,and my K38 masterpiece.And I must say,the K38 masterpiece has the best trigger pull out of all my S&W guns.

It is from the 1950's when they really knew how to build things.I hope my other guns wear in a little to feel somewhat like my K38 masterpiece.

DonD · #20 05-07-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwalchmai

Try these, they help a lot -
Gripmaster Hand & Finger Exerciser Pictures

Might not be a bad idea. Thanks, Don

WVfishguy · #21 05-07-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sinko

Anything can be smoothed out to provide a nice trigger pull. I think the K Frame feels the best to many people because it's the ideal size. Dave Sinko

I agree. The wife and I own more than two dozen revolvers, including a vintage Colt Python, Rugers and many S&Ws in K, L and N frames. We've had a lot of experience with revolver triggers.
Which trigger is "best" is subjective and usually a moot point. Jerry Miculek, probably the best revolver shooter extant, actually has heavier-than-stock trigger on his guns - his finger is too fast for a stock gun (!).
I certainly can't shoot better with a very light trigger as opposed to a heavier one.
Smoothness is more important, for me, as are other factors. I cannot shoot my wife's Python as well as my lightly 'smithed Model 28-2. The Python's trigger throw is too long (for me), but is it slightly smoother than the N-frame Smith.
Of all our revolvers this Model 65-3 has the lightest pull, simply because it has had the most gunsmith work on it:

Chriss · #22 05-07-2010, 09:57 PM

No.
All of the frames have examples that exhibit the extemes of a smooth. light and predictable action.

Chriss · #23 05-07-2010, 10:15 PM

No.
All of the frames have examples that exhibit the extemes of a smooth. light and predictable action.

Casehardn · #24 05-09-2010, 09:25 AM

I guess every revolver may have slight differences.
I have a few K frames from the 70's with very good triggers, but the best double-action trigger I have is on my 28-2 N-frame.
Maybe it's been broken-in better or maybe it's the inertia of that big cylinder. Either way, it is smooth as silk to me.