A number of years back, John Taffin coined the phrase perfect packin' pistol, as a way to describe just that. He initially defined the gun as a DA or SA revolver, with a 4" to 5 !/2" barrel, in any caliber capable of doing all duties......self defense, survival hunting, comfort of carry.

After being reminded of the PPP in a recent Amercian Handgunner issue, I have given considerable thought to what my PPP would be. Having owned nearly every caliber and barrel length of J, K, L, and N framed Smith's over the past 40 plus years, and with great difficulty, I have narrowed my personal opinion down to one gun. It was and remains a difficult choice which I have changed temporarily on a number of occasions....but I return to the same gun and am locked into it now.

My choice is made from precisely what Taffin invisioned....the perfect PACKIN' pistol. Packing is highlighted because that is what is of primary importance in this catagory. It may not be the 'perfect gun'.....but will do nearly everything and is capable of being carried regularly.

My decision is made with the following considerations.... small enough to be concealed.....light enough to not be uncomfortable after all day carry......durable enough to be relilable......powerful enough to perform most any task. To me, that means, smaller in frame, shorter in barrel, stainless construction, and the first number in the caliber begins with a four.

Before I reveal my PPP, I would like to expand Taffin's PPP to include automatic pistols as well as revolvers. Mr. Taffin is a world famous writer and expert on all firearms but has a history of being a big bore revolver guy. While I am also, I think it would be fun to open the category to all PPP's regardless of action. Why can't the PPP be an auto, or any configuration for that matter?

Knowing you are all waiting anxiously for me to reveal my PPP, without further ado, here are my choice(s). My favorite PPP, forgoing all my 'N' frames and my second runner up, a 629 Backpacker......I choose my model 696! Stainless, 'L' compact, 3 inch, adjustable sigthts, 44 Special. The best metal, perfect frame size, sufficent barrel length and adjustablility for sight radius and cartridge performance, and the finest caliber in a compact hangun available, IMO.

My PPP auto, for those of you who haven't decided I'm out of my mind and are still reading this.....the Colt Government model, Mark IV, Series 70, 45 ACP.

Now, what are your favorite FIRST choice PPP's?

1. My 2.5" Model 19. Here on the North Oregon Coast, it fits all my requirements. We have black bear and cougar, but an encounter with one of them is pretty slim compared to a two legged predator. Small enough to carry and or conceal, large enough to be intimidating (especially from the business end, with hollow points peeking out the front of the cylinder), powerful enough to get the job done, and, even with the 2.5" barrel, accurate enough to hit a coffee can at 100 yards. Mine is no safe queen, so I'm not afraid to take it out in any kind of weather.

2. 6" 629. Although, if I moved back to Alaska, it would be #1.

You can’t beat a 696.

Except my soulless Glock 27 holds more rounds, is smaller, and has way fewer sharp edges to dig into my rib cage, and I can actually shoot it better.

Ducking and running for cover,
Emory

Mine would be a 3" HB, RB K frame either a model 13 or 65. Have owned several over the years and they do any job I ask of them. Do wish smith made a .41 Mag on the L frame like your 696 and then I'll be in hog heaven.

CD

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De Oppresso Liber

I keep waivering between my beautiful 696 and my 3" Talo 686+.

For fun, the 696 is the one.

If I could only have one in an emergency the nod would go to the 686+ just because it carries two more rounds in the same size gun. It's also easier to get ammo for.

Going on a hike out in the country, or camping, and if I decided not to carry my SP101, the 686+ is the one again.

But all the while I'd be missing the 696. What is it about that thing?

...Mountain Gun...just pick your favorite caliber. My favorite is the 657 .41 Magnum but I also have the 629 .44 Magnum and 625 .45 ACP.

Semi-auto...my daily carry gun, Colt Commander .38 Super which has been hard chromed, BarSto barrel and MMC Tactical Adjustable night sights.

Runner-ups:
Taurus 4" Titanium Tracker .41 Magnum
S&W 60-10 3" AS .357 Magnum (Backpacking/boating/fishing gun)
S&W 357PD AirLite .41 or the 329PD in .44
Freedom Arms Model 97 4.25" barrel, round butt in .41 Mag or .44 Special
...another semi...Dan Wesson Commander Classic Bobtail in 10mm (don't own this one)

I own all of the above but if it came down to just one for daily day in and day out use it would be one of the MG in a good holster.

Bob

For a semiauto I would pick a 1911 Light Weight Commander in 45 ACP.
Best choice for the city IMHO...

In the field my pick is a S&W 44 Mag Mountain Gun.

These verbal exercises are good fun. My trail gun varies depending upon where I am and what I'm doing.

One I have gone to often when bird hunting with my O/U shotgun is my S&W Model 60-4 in .38 Special. It's a dandy - I hardly know I am wearing it but it is quite effective for small game:



On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with my Smith Model 631 (4" barreled .32 H&R Mag) for general use and small game.

If I am going to be in Black Bear country, then my 624 in .44 Special will probably get the nod:



FWIW
Dale53

For now, one of Smith's eight round .357's. This 3 1/2" blued version gets shot every trip to a range and not a problem yet.

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July 4, 1776 not Jan 30, 1909

I liked J.T.'s PPP idea - a 625MG in .45 Colt. Of course, it requires a belt mounted holster - not exactly a CCW. As most of my needs are in state & federal parks these days - hiking - my go-to CCW of choice is my 2.5" 296 AirLite-Ti hammerless 5-shot .44 Special, where CC is legal. I love my 696, but, at 4 oz less than the 625MG, it needs a belt holster. The 296 rides in a pocket holster (Robert Mika) taking a little more room than my similarly pocketed 642. I carry a 240gr LSWC followed by 200gr Gold Dots. Here it is with the holster, urban ammo (All Gold Dots!), and two of my typical EDC pocket knives, a BM 710 & 760:



Not a great plinker, like my 696, but that isn't why I 'pack' it!

Stainz

There's another thread on "woods guns" which overlaps with this one quite a bit. I suppose it is just marginally less tilted toward the self-defense-from-bad-guys-and-zombies angle than this, more "sport" oriented, although it seems to me that a guy wandering about in the "woods", depending on where it is, is far far more likely to encounter a two-legged predator than a four-legged one.

Of the guns I currently own, my choice would have to be the 5" 627 8-shot 357. High round-count, accurate, capable of shooting 38 Specials for small game and plinking, but with 357 power for negative social and/or animal interactions. I live in griz country, and often carry a 4" 500 when in the back-country, but that's not nearly as "all around" as the 627.

A close second choice for me would be a 4" 625 in 45ACP, it's a sweet gun, very accurate and sufficiently powerful for most purposes, but just a tad less versatile than the 627 in my view.

Mine would have to be my 686+ in 4 inch, coupled with a Lobo pancake OWB holster.

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You'll shoot your eye out kid

I like my Colt LW Commander for carrying as it is flat, light, and holds eight cartridges. But a K frame, like this #65, can be carried, handled and shot by anyone eight to eighty simply by changing the stocks and ammo to fit the one using it.

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Glock Model 23 or Model 27

Because Mountain Lions now call our area home (one was spotted about 2 miles from our buildings last month) this is what I should pack around here. It's a .357 Model 66.


But because it's so handy and unobtrusive, this is my favorite "packin' around the farm" handgun. It's a .38 Special Model 60.

My two current PPP are in my avatar pick.

The 442 is an excellent pocketer and the 57-5 will be riding in a Sourdough Pancake being made my Simply Rugged at this time.

The 442 goes most places with me....the 57-5 is going to be hopefully used on a deer and some hogs this year.

44 Mtn Gun with 260grain SWCs Keith style traveling at 1100fps. Carried in a Mernickle PS Series holster and a speedloader with six and a belt slide with six.

I like packin' these...Any ol' day,



Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Good for concealed or open carry, 3" bbl., 7-shot, .357 Magnum.

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Bill - SWCA #2327

If I was allowed to carry (do not move to IL), it would be a 66 2.5" with +P's(or 686 snub) over the 19. I would not carry .357s unless I was backpacking. The increased penetration is a huge issue.

-SS is much better for maintenance and holster wear.
-BUT, the blue can be better since it is less obvious and conspicuous (+1 for the 19)
-On the other hand, having a brighter gun can have it's advantages as well...an eye catcher
-My father carried a 19 2.5" as his off-duty weapon and then switched to a Model 60. In the 70's, if you all remember, men's jackets and suits were slimmer/tighter, and the 60 did not stick out as much in the shoulder holster as the 19...not much of an issue today.
-he also taught me...if you need more than 6 bullets, you are in A LOT of trouble.
-I do not care how many times you take your semi-auto to the range, I still would never trust one....even if you had it polished, throated, mag-welled, etc etc...when it hits the fan, I want to know when I pull that trigger, a round will be fired.

My $.02

Penetration of 125gr HP .357 magnum in ballistic gel is in the 12-14" range depending on the brand.

Penetration of 148gr wadcutter standard pressure .38 special is in the 25-30" range.

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Centennial Every Day

I flip flop between my 629 Mountain Gun and my (dare I say it) Ruger Alaskan also in .44M. Most of my gear, speed loaders etc, will fit both. I use Simply Rugged holsters and either one conceals fairly well when I wear a jacket, the Alaskan slightly better due to it's shorter barrel.

If CC isn't required - I guess my best protection/utility use here would still be the 625MG in .45 Colt, probably my 'backup', a -6 bottom, below. The -7 has a lot of nostalgia associated with it.



Yeah, J.T. proclaimed that a PPP - have to agree - as long as you can pack openly! A 255gr LSWC or Speer #4484 250gr Gold Dot at 820-900 fps is nothing to sneeze at.

Stainz

For woods carry mine is my 686 plus pro. (at least when I get it in a week or so)

For social situations my M&P 9c should do the trick quite nicely.

Another vote for the 3" Model 60. While I carry a 642 more often than not, it's not nearly as versatile as my 60-4

That's gonna be a sweet gun!!!!

HP vs. a wadcutter (semi?) is an apples and oranges comparison since a .357 semiwadcutter, 158gr, will have 27.5" of penetration. They all depend on the load.

If I didn't live in a large metro area and open carried every day, this would probably get the duty more often than any others:



It's a 1950 Model 44 Hand Ejector Target, re-barreled, re-built and re-blued after the original owner butchered it. Kind of a mountain gun...before there was a Mountain Gun. (smile)

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Love it Dave! Now that is a Workin' Man's Gun. It is very utilitarian, and has a great look to it. I think that is a perfect way to preserve a pistol that might have been disregarded completely.

Yes. That's my point. We can't make a blanket statement that says .357 magnum will always penetrate more than .38 special (like was made in the post I was replying to).

I guess I should put in my opinion to the original post. In my mind, the best all around gun for field and carry is the 4" Model 629. Elmer had that one figured out a long time ago and the only improvement on his idea is the stainless steel.

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Centennial Every Day

An "everything" gun has start with a ".4" in many parts of the country, and I consider a .44 Special marginal unless you load your own with 240gr bullets moving fairly fast. For me, the obvious choice is my 3" double-Magnaported PC 629 with Fishpaws (even fit to be worn to a BBQ) in a DeSantis OWB holster. Second place is my 4" RB 25-2 with plenty of moonclips and some hot .45AR loads in bear country.

But I mostly don't hang out with bears, so it seems to me that the discussion is back to what to carry when some people may not behave. That opens the field of usable handguns up so wide that it seems pointless to rehash a half century of gun rags and a little less time on the 'net.

When out in the desert or mountain area, either a 696ND or 65-5 3-inch. Plus I always have a j-frame CCed! Lately it's been my 640-1 and the 65 because of common ammo! If I had to pick one for overall, anywhere, any time, it would probably be the 65.

It would have to be a 4" Mod 66 for me, loaded with 158 gr semi-

wadcutters. As far as penetration goes a miss will probably penetrate

out to 300 yards.

Semi-auto (CCW):
H&K USP .45C
Glock 27 BUG

Semi-auto (Woods):
Glock 20 or 29 10mm

Revolver (CCW):
S&W 696 ND
S&W 442 BUG

Revolver (Woods-Black Bear):
S&W any Mtn. Gun; 624 3 or 4in.

Revolver (Woods-Griz)
Ruger Bisley or Redhawk .45 Colt

In a perfect world, you could pack whatever, where ever you wanted...and wouldn't need to. That said, this seems to break down to a rural carry vs. urban carry issue, or open vs. concealed carry. My opinion, the best compromise would be a 4" .357 K or L frame.

In a revolver:
3" 60 in .357
3" 65 LS
4" TR .44 spec

Auto
4" PO LDA with Officers model grip
3 1/2 PDA LDA 9mm

Well, I took the OP's meaning, based off John Taffin's writings, to mean a perfect packin' pistol for out in the woods. That said, I'd say it still depends on what woods we're talking about. The pine forests of the Carolinas are gonna be different than the scrub of Texas, and Idaho mountains are going to be different from both of them!

To me, for anything East of the Great Divide, a Glock 20 is ideal. With a 4.6" barrel, it's already more compact than a 1911 (length-wise, I'll grant you it's a lot thicker, and the heighths are about the same), but it carries 15 rounds of 10mm power (if loaded properly). And, the eastern parts of the US seem to have a bigger chance of bumping into someone in the woods who may be up to no good, like 'shiners, tweakers, or just plain badguys.

Now, if I were going up in the mountains out West, I'd leave my 10mms at home. And, while my ultimate, dream-gun is a custom 696, I have to consider what John Taffin (and the Orig. Poster) was talking about with emphasis on the word "PACKIN'." My thinking, in that case, is something that you pack along, but it's not your reason for being in the woods. You're out there camping, hiking, working -- whatever, but you're not there hunting or shooting as your main point of being there. In that case you want something powerful enough for the job, but light enough to stay out of the way. I have to go with John Taffin's choice for that type of pistol, which I believe was the 329 w/ CTC lasergrips. That pistol makes a whole lotta sense.

If'n a gun is anywhere near too heavy, it will eventually get left behind, and then it's doing you no good. That's why the Glock and a 329 are my two choices.

M657-4 in a high ride hip holster loaded with the Hornady 210 grain FMJ bullet [no longer made I have a stockpile] to about 1100 fps. With two speedloaders on the offside. Old pic, sixgun now wears Pachmayer rubbers for control.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

10mm in a CCO Configuration 1911

Probably go with my 629 mountain gun but my 696 would be ridin on its tail.

I think I would have to go with my 625 in 45lc/cut for moon clips 45acp.

According to the serial number it left Hartford in 1913 and was shipped to a cavalry unit in Arizona. It came to me fresh from overhaul at Rock Island Arsenal in 1961 for the princely sum of $28.50, postage paid, through DCM Sales. I wonder where all it was during it's first 48 years of Army life, but it spent 20 years in the Army with me after it left the books. That DCM paperwork sure disappointed a few MPs and a few Customs guys whose eyes initially lit up on seeing the "United States Property" markings. After fifty years changing to something else would be tough on the 'muscle memory.'

old tanker, excellent choice.

I have a Auto Ordnance 1911A1 in .45 ACP that I considered listing here. It is loaded with the Hornady 200 grain FMJ semi-wadcutters to about 900 fps. It shoots into 2 1/2 inches at 25 yards. It will penetrate animals and certain parts of people's autos if needed.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

A 4" 629 loaded with RCBS 250K's to about 950 also I keep an ammo wallet with the same bullet loaded to about 1300 fps

My Ruger Alaskan 2.5 inch stainless 44 magnum loaded with buffalo bore 305 grain LBT cast LFN at around 1150 fps.

Nice business set up...

I would have to say my last carry gun... a 3" M65 and my current carry gun, a 3" M696.

November thru March ... S&W 396 Mtn Light 44 special ...
Buffalo Bore Heavy 44 special loads ...
255 gr. hardcast GC @ 975 fps.

April thru October ... S&W 329 PD (4") 44 mag ...
Buffalo Bore "Reduced Recoil" 44 mag load ...
255 gr hardcast GC @ 1260 fps.

Around here, moose are the winter issue; the rest of the year, bears, and maybe a protective cow moose w/ calf.

perfect no matter how I am dressed. Great little gun!


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Dave,

What is the story on that fellow on the left. He looks interesting.

Thanks,
Danny