Is it worth the trouble using .45 AutoRim vs using the moon clips in a 625?

One load .45 AutoRim 260g Man Stopper from Reed's Ammunition & Research looked devastating. You can't find that in a .45 Auto load.

Has anyone had experience with Reed's ammo? They seem like a decent source for a wicked round.

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From a reloading perspective, I get much better accuracy using 45 Auto Rim loads in my 25-2 and 625's.

I'm the opposite, never use Auto Rim brass. I handload, rarely use factory ammo, have a number of 1911s, and find it easier to use the same ammo for both semi-auto and revolvers. I have nothing against AR brass and if I only had revolvers I might go to it, although I find the moon-clips to be a nifty deal. I believe that any load that works in AR brass will also work in Auto brass, but the Reed's ammo, with which I am not familiar, is apparently only loaded in AR version. Try some out and see what you think. Have fun!!

I hate messing with moonclips. I shoot my 25-2 without using them. it's no big deal to pick them out with a fingernail, and half the time they just fall out on there own when the gun is tipped up.

As for AR ammo not being available that is quite as warm as ACP, you may want to look at this.

45 Auto Rim +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

This is safe in any sound 25/625 platform.

Auto rim can be loaded hotter than regular acp. I load both ar and regular. I will usually load heavy for caliber bullets in the autorim since I can only shoot those in my revolver anyway.

Hate moon clips--just open the cylinder --tap it and they fall out of my 25-2.

Beginning to gather what I need to reload then I'll be using AR's all the time--except for the 1911's of course.

Steve

I like those stubby little 45ARs! One of the best things about them is the loads I sometimes use in my 625-8 run around 25k psi (or so) for heavy field use, so no worries about getting them into a 45 automatic. A 250 LSWC at 1000fps makes a pretty good general field load. Can't easily do that with a 45 ACP.

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" I said, good DAY! "

that is what i use in all my 45 revolvers, i load a 250 grain bullet in mine and carry moon clips for a fast reload.

I don't believe that the AR case is any 'stouter' than ACP brass. In consulting a couple of reputable loading manuals, Lyman and Speer, it looks to me as though loads for both cartridges are very close to identical. In fact, if you were to go strictly "by the book" you'd load the AR down a little, the industry max for that round is 15,000psi, whereas it is 21,000 for ACP, and both cases have virtually identical capacity. I'm sure there's a bit of fudge room here, but I suspect it is far more by virtue of the strength of modern firearms than it is due to an added rim. That's my take.

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I hate messing with moonclips. I shoot my 25-2 without using them. it's no big deal to pick them out with a fingernail, and half the time they just fall out on there own when the gun is tipped up.

+1

If you reload, it's just a preference thing. I like the AR case and the modern ones seem to me to be as strong as the ACP case. The original Remington AR cases didn't seem to last very long, often splitting on the side on the second or third reload. This made me think that perhaps they were inherently weaker than ACP cases. And they were always hard to find. In any case, both the current Remington and Starline cases seem to hold up as well as any ACP.

If you don't reload, the ACP is the winner, hands down, from an economic point of view.

I've no experience with the Reed Ammunition, but the Buffalo Bore AR's I've run over the machine gave volocities pretty darn close to factory claims.

With the ACP in revolvers, I often use 1/3 moon clips. They are easier to load than full moons and once loaded can be put back in the box clipped. Makes trips to the range easier.

I greatly enjoy using the .45 Auto Rim cases. There is no special joy in using .45 ACP and clips.

An AR case may not be any stronger (then again it may, depending on who made them) than an ACP case, but AR the case is fully supported in any revo, while the ACP case isn't in the average auto. That allows a bit of leeway to warm things up.

I guess you never reloaded a 1917, a 1950 or 1955, a M25 or a 625 when the clock was running and speed mattered. Nothing faster for a revolver reload than full moon clips and 6 rounds of 45 ACP ball.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Nope, I haven't. I've only enjoyed the revolvers for informal range sessions, plinking, and trips afield.

Then perhaps you shouldn't make declarative statements like the first one. Your experience may well not be that of others.

Dave

__________________
RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

If you are not a reloader, this outfit is 1st class with excellent ammo.
Georgia Arms - .45 AUTO RIM

Auto Rim is better for the best reason of all; it removes Mr. Murphy from the equation. Rimless cartridges in revolvers is asking for trouble, as much as rimmed ones are in autos or bolt action rifles.

I have several 1911 platforms and two 625's.

I use .45 ACP cases in both platforms. I prefer Auto Rim cases for general use with my revolvers although it could certainly be argued that using the polymer RIMZ full moon clips takes most of the aggravation out of using full moon clips with .45 ACP cases.

If I am shooting .45 ACP's at the range for general use in my 625's, then I'll use the RIMZ clips (one of my 625's allows use without clips and the other does not). For serious social purposes, steel full moon clips are more reliable for case retention. However, the steel full moon clips requires tools for "mooning" or "re-mooning". A speed reload with full moon clips and a properly shaped bullet will amaze the uninitiated about how fast a revolver can be reloaded. Just Google "Jerry Miculek" and watch a master at work with full moon clips. Awesome!

I load heavy bullet loads in Auto Rim cases (it is no great trick to safely attain velocities exceeding 900 fps with a 250 gr Keith and this is a dandy hunting load for deer, black bear, and hogs).

My SS Ruger Bisley .45 Colt/,45 ACP convertible does not allow me to use Auto Rim cases in the .45 ACP cylinder but it shoots wonderfully well with ACP cases.

Dale53

+1. Yeah, AutoRim is a good news, bad news proposition. The bad news is that it is harder to find and costs more. The good news is.......it's harder to find and costs more?? Actually, the 1917 revolvers were designed with the ACP cartridge in mind, the AR came along later. Nothing wrong with AR, I'm not saying that in the least......except that the brass is considerably more expensive, hard to find, and useful only in revolvers, not semi-autos, making it half as versatile.

I have a mooning/de-mooning tool that works real slick. In addition, I have one of the North Mountain moon clip holders making a trip to the range or a match using the 625 a sweet experience. I keep hearing the refrain "I hate moon clips" and I guess I'd understand it if no tool was available. The metal clips (not the RIMZ) are a real PITA to load and unload with bare hands, but with the right equipment they are a joy to use, even if rapid reloads is not a priority. Meanwhile, ACP ammo and brass is available just about anywhere and, in my experience, shoots great out of the 25 and 625 revolvers......as well as 1911s and any number of other 45 semi-autos, Glocks, SIGs, S&Ws, SAs, etc.

OK, my opinion counts for less than your opinion.

For the person who does not intend to use his .45 ACP revolver in competitive speed events or else desires to carry it along with a reload for purposes of self defense, the Auto Rim cartridge case is delightful. It allows the .45 ACP revolver to be used with the same facility as any other common rimmed revolver cartridge. The additional fiddling about with clips may be avoided. For the lazy person who is a handloader the .45 Auto Rim is keen.

Okay, you're right. If I only had a revolver and didn't ever compete and lacked a mooning/de-mooning tool I'd prolly go with the AR.

Prefer auto rim, and yes the cases are stouter, although the loads you find in the manuals are not. The manuals are giveing loads for use in WWI revolvers, not modern revolvers like Mdl 625 (which is stronger than a 1917 S&W). American loading manuals ofter give loads based upon the weakest firearm you might find cambered for that round. That way they are more lawyer proof. Europeans typically load many cartridges hotter and their manuals give hotter loads, examples are 6.5x55 and 7x57. But then Europe has a different legal system, and not as many ambulance chasers.

With ar I will use
45 colt data (worked up slowly) and not ruger only loads.

I don't reload. Factory made AR ammunition is scare and expensive, so I'm pretty much limited to ACP. I don't see that as a disadvantage, however, because I use RIMZ moonclips. The RIMZ clips can be easily loaded and unloaded by hand within seconds. I see no falloff in accuracy between the RIMZ and standard moon clips. Reloading the revolver with a RIMZ clip is every bit as fast as with a standard moon clip.

I've recently come to moon clip use in the past couple years. Certainly there are advantages in some instances.

I also recently started reloading AR and compare accuracy side by side with 1911 and 625 platforms.

What I've found in *my* guns in *my* loads with *my* eyes and *my* grip, etc....is little variation of no big significance.

Although some recipes are favored more by one or the other shooting platform, I've only tested out to about 25 yards, and come up with only a few tenths of inches difference. There is a hex-nosed 200 grain hand cast load that works wonderfully well in my 625 but not so well in the 1911s.

I have not used them in hunting scenarios or longer target work.

I do have a 1/2 dozen recipes that are a true joy to shoot and as accurate as I can be myself.

Personally I prefer to have some of each ACP and AR around, as it gives me the illusion I have more choices to study.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

The nice thing about the AR cased loads is that you load them by hand - and rounded nose bullets aren't 'required' for fast moonclip reloads. You can use any bullet you want - and regular .45 Colt levels are easy on your modern 25/625, as they were designed for 14 kpsi instead of 21+ kpsi like the ACP cased loads. You can speed up the process with a couple of HKS #25 speedloaders - with tines spaced for the thick rims.

Still, whether you reload or not - it's a fun round - cute, actually, like a .44 Russian. If you don't reload - try GA Arms - great ammo/fair prices. Save your brass - I never thought I'd reload, either... that ended eight years ago!

Stainz

I would like to thank everyone for the input to my question. AR seems to be a good argument as well as moon clips so I have decided 1/3 moon clips are a good choice. the full moon clips are working great with the new Wilson Combat Moon Clip tool.
I have considered ordering the Man Stoppers, guess I will have to try Reeds Ammo myself, will keep you posted on the outcome. I must say, I have never seen a 260 grain in the .45ACP and that massive of a hollow point.

I've never had a lot of faith in hollowpoints. This 250gr wadcutter at +900fps will make two large holes in most targets. Can't ask much more.

True they are, Blunt Force Trauma.

Thanks

FWIW I have both the S&W 625 revolvers (1988 & 1989) and Colt 1911a1's.

I have the mooning and de-mooning tool, half moon and full moon clips and I load both the .45 ACP and the .45 AR.

Both rounds are loaded differently for different purposes. They both have their place in my agenda.

I also shoot IDPA with a Glock 35 .40 S&W, sometimes with the 1911 or the S&W 625 model 1989 in .45 ACP.

I also load both the .45 Colt and the .45 Schofields rounds for the same revolver( S&W 625 MG). Different rounds for different purposes.

The same goes for my S&W model 27, 5 inch ......38 Specials and .357 magnum rounds. Different rounds for different purposes.

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Semper FI

I can see that. I could envision a scenario, for example, where I might load some sort of heavy bullet hunting rounds in AR brass for the 625......if I were planning to hunt with it which I likely would not under current circumstances. Much like you, I have a number of other handguns, both revolvers and semi-autos, each of which fills a certain niche in my shooting wants/needs. When I hunt I am likely, depending on the game, to not use the 45 round at all, will tilt toward 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, or even the 500 if things are getting big and hairy. Choices are good!!

Yes I have experience with Reed & R.A.R. ammo in
.45 Auto Rim, .45 ACP & .357 Magnum.

.45 Auto Rim Havne't got any of those 250 gr.or heavier SWC Keith style yet, what I have is:

225 gr. Barnes XPB HP devastating bullet
R.A.R no valocity listed but it is most felt
recoil out of my 625 5" Bbl. I have about 50 rds
of it Kinda spendy bullets

185 gr. Golden Saber JHPs @ 1,100 fps
Snappy

I also had Reed do a custom load with
200 gr. SWC Leadhead hardcast @ 1,000 FPS
I think I have 400 rounds of it recoil is close to GI Ball

At the same time I had the custom order ( 250 minimum )
I had 350 new brass Remington from the early '80s, I had
R.A.R. load them with the same 200 gr. SWC from Leadhead

Need to get with a friend and chrono this stuff.

R.A.R. also offers some hard to find loads/cartrdiges Best
source I've found for .400 CorBon.

I have the Wilson Combat de-mooning tool, I also use
the HKS 25M speedloaders for .45 AR. The mouths of
the cylinder chambers have been chamfered so it's no problem
reloading with either altho the Full moons are quicker.

Randall

FYI the .45 Auto Rim actual Rim Thickness runs about
0.0910 inches - a .45 Colt's rim is the approximate thickness
of most normal rims at 0.0605 inches so, the base of
the .45 AR is thicker. Remington-Peters who came out with
the .45 AUto RIm in 1921 made the rim thicker so as to
correctly position the primer to firing pin tolerance.

14,000 psi is what .44 SPecial and other cartrdges are rated
at - it's stuck with cartrdges that have a heritage that dates to the
transition period to smokeless powder but it's based on the
.45 ACP case dimensions.

R-