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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 10-29-2010, 05:38 PM
evanoverdrive evanoverdrive is offline
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Default Hello,new member with a question on 617 problem....

i`ve been lurking on here for a bit and finally joined up..So hello to all....i have a 686 and decided i wanted a .22 for cheap fun as well,so i ordered a 617 4" and it finally arrived at the local shop today..When i picked it up i noticed that the front site seemed tilted slightly to the left when looking when looking through the sights..When the gun is viewed directly from the top,it looks like the lines running the length of the top of the barrel are shifted slightly to the left of exact center..like it was overtighted slightly.My knowledge is limited,but it seems that something isnt right..the guy behind the counter looked and said "yea i see it"...but honestly i dont get the feeling he was very knowledgeable...Is this a factory screw up?Is there an acceptable amount of tolerance?I didnt accept the gun and trying to get some more info..Thanks for any help, evan
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:41 PM
.460V & XVR Magnum Man's Avatar
.460V & XVR Magnum Man .460V & XVR Magnum Man is offline
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Sounds like an over torqued barrel. Any picture would help the pro's on her to tell you for sure..............

p.s. welcome aboard!!!!
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  #3  
Old 10-29-2010, 06:31 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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A slight amount of tilt is acceptable as long as it's not out of the range of adjustment for the rear sight assembly. Now, I will note that there have been some revolvers released recently that have a lot of "tilt" to the barrel, enough so that the sight adjustement wouldn't permit the sights to be properly zeroed. The good news it's pretty rare, the bad news is you won't know if you have too much "'tilt" unless you have enough experience to make a visual judgement or actually test fire the question gun.

The problem is that with a threaded joint such as this the manufacturer is faced with 3 choices.

One is to tighten the barrel to a fixed specification and accept some variance as long as the gun can be adjusted to shoot to point of aim.

The second is to tighten the barrel until the alignment is perfect and hope the barrel doesn't shoot loose or tighten up due to the forces put on the barrel during firing. You also have to hope that in some cases the barrel will not be overtightened to the point where the frame cracks or the barrel fails down the road.

The third is to hand fit each joint, which could require as much as 2 or 3 hours for each gun if you're trying to achieve perfect alignment AND a perfect torque specification. If you've ever tried removing 0.00005 to 0.0003 inch of steel and getting perfection you'll understand the time involved, it can only be done by hand.

Because they no longer pin the barrels to the frame, I suspect that S&W now uses a specific torque range when tightening the barrels. As a result, you'll see some variation in the alignment. Personally, if I were managing this assembly area, I would install the barrels with a high strength Locktite and line them up. Then I would alert that Gunsmithing community that the barrels on a Smith & Wesson revolvers are now no longer replaceable.

The fact is that a lot of gun purchasers expect total visual perfection on a relatively cheap revolver when it has ZERO effect on how the guns shoot. If they want visual perfection, the least expensive option is to use locktight and remove the possibility of replacing the barrel in the future.

BTW, if you don't think you 617 is cheap, take a look at the price for a Korth revolver, that will change your attitude. The plain truth is that you won't find any other consumer product made today with this level of complexity and longevity.

BTW, I have a 610 that has a barrel with this condition. Visually the barrel is about 0.020 inch past center. Doesn't bother me one little bit because I had no problem adjusting the sight to get it to hit perfectly. I also have a 620 that has a dead perfect alignment of the barrel shroud to the frame, because it features a 2 piece barrel assembly and the shroud is keyed to the frame. It too bad that people weren't more accepting of the 2 piece barrels, I suspect a 617 fitted with a 2 piece barrel would probably group under 1/2 inch at 50 yards. Now it'll never happen.

Finally, if you want a perfect 617 they are out there. Bad news is that you'll have to stumble on one, because if I am correct about these barrels being torqued to a set specifiction there will be a bell shaped distribution curve for the alignment. If S&W has their process well "centered" per Deming, this means that 1 to 2% will need a return to the factory as "outlyers" and 1 to 2% will have perfectly centered barrels. As for the other 96%, they won't be perfect but they will allow the sights to be properly zeroed.
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:58 PM
au2183 au2183 is offline
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Don't accept it like that! I would not take the chance that rear sight adjustment will compensate for that much misalignment. If you do decide to accept it you should immediately call Smith and ask for a pick up tag to send it in to be fixed. It may or may not get fixed the first time around. Are you patient enough to go through all that? It's your choice. I wouldn't accept it. That's not just a cosmetic imperfection. Best of luck to you!
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Old 10-30-2010, 11:36 AM
evanoverdrive evanoverdrive is offline
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Thanks for all the info....I looked at my 686 and it also has the same issue..But alot less.In fact i never noticed until i just checked for the hell of it..I saw another 686 in a different shop last night and it had it as well...The 617 i had ordered had quite a bit more than both of these other guns..So the shop is sending it back and getting another.It definattly seemed excessive compared to the other guns i compared it to..
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Old 11-05-2010, 06:21 PM
evanoverdrive evanoverdrive is offline
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Default As a follow up.......

The shop got in a replacement 617 today and it is a world of difference..The front site is perfectly vertical and the barrel is visibly centered..So it was definatly worth having them send it back.I cant wait to shoot this tommorrow!!Thanks again for the replies.. evan
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