I have a 686 SSR that at some point the yoke comes loose upon speed reloading. The yoke almost falls off the frame. I have talked to few other 686 owners and they say the same thing that during matches (IDPA/USPSA) the yoke has come flying off during a speed reload.

I have been told the point of the yoke spring retention screw cut a groove on the end of the yoke and ends up allowing the yoke to finally come off or loose upon speed reloading. It was also said that the 686 would have to be returned to the factory for a new yoke.

It was mentioned that the yoke is only good for about 1500 speed reloads before the yoke needs to be replaced.

My M15 has had more speed reloads over its life than the 686 SSR and the yoke is still on.

What gives with this type of design?

Is there a 686 that pre dates this type of design, something like the older fitted screw stud?

Please clarify on who told you this. I would really like to know from what source you heard this information.

I'd like to hear more about this issue. The older 686's had just a simple screw to hold the yoke on. I had not heard anything negative about the new yoke screw failing. The older screw could develop yoke endshake that the new system does not seem to do under normal use.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Replace the screw that holds the yoke on. Get one without the spring and you will be fine. Even with the springed screw, install it tightly and use some blue loctite to insure it doesn't come loose during a shoot.

Before you go to the match check to make sure the screw is tight. It should not just come loose during a match and a fast, heavy reload.

The yoke has a 'V' cut groove instead of the older channel cut. Thus the old screw style [ will not fit into the < groove of the yoke. It appears the problem is the spring point somehow cuts into the outer edge of the 'V' groove on the yoke creating a notch cut allowing the yoke to be pressed past the spring screw's point.

When using the CompIII speed loaders, during the speed reload to hit the back of the speedloader to pop the reloads into the chambers of the cylinder.

On mine, the screw was still tight, loctite and all. And when I unscrewed the screw and took out the yoke I found the damage on the yoke. The screw was fine. The issue is not with the screw being loose, but with the yoke being soft to be so easily damaged/cut by the screw. And for the new 686 "SSR" Pro Series model I would have thought this would not have been issue.

Was it the dash 3 model when the screw got changed? What older dash has the old screw style? I would think it be better to have the screw break and be able to replace the screw at a championship than the yoke being damaged that no replacement screw would fix.

I have a 686 no dash and it is the old style flat bottom solid screw. I think a fix could be to have a local gunsmith turn the "V" channel in the yoke to a flat bottom cut as the old ones were, and replace the retention screw with the old style. The old style worked for about 100 years why not go back to it.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Is there something wrong with your CompIIIs? I have K frame CompIIIs and never have to hit anything to get them to release.

Does somebody make a flat bottom screw in the larger size? Or is this something a gunsmith or machinist will need to turn?

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NRA - All Day

The screw body on the spring loaded yoke screw is much larger than the old style yoke screw, so an old one will not work. You would have to find an aftermarket screw of the appropriate threads and head size to work properly and hand fit to the yoke. I would think you would be able to taper the tip of the screw to fit your existing yoke, with some trial and error.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

A local IDPA shooter was having the same problem with his SSR. S&W has replaced the yoke several times. The screw literally churned through the button that retains the yoke. Crazy stuff.

I had exactly the same thing happen with a brand new 67-5 I bought earlier this year. I was using Comp IIIs and practicing reloads. I had not even fired it yet. Literally after about 40 reloads the yoke and cylinder came off in my hand. I was trying different methods to get the rounds into the cylinder holes faster so for most of the reloads I was "popping" the back of the Comp III with the palm of my hand just like the someone mentioned earlier. No problem with the Comp IIIs, this was just one way I was doing it at the time.

The yoke screw never came loose. I called S&W and while on the phone with someone removed the yoke screw. The S&W support person thought that spring might have been missing from the assembly but it was intact.

I received a FedEx label and sent it in. About a week later it was back with a note that read "replaced yoke." From this I can only assume that the yoke was out of spec or something.

I believe there is a video on YouTube showing someone experiencing the same failure using a 625 at an indoor match.

My 2008 686-6 doesn't have a springed yoke screw, is this odd?

Are you sure?

It should have the three piece screw.

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

I had exactly the same thing happen with a Taurus Model 85 and discovered that the channel (or groove) on the yoke did not go all the way around. How such a machining error could have occurred I have no idea. At any rate, the Taurus now has a new home.

I think if you spend alot of time banging on the back of the open cylinder, its going to get loose on you. New style or old style.

I've shot thousands of rounds through revolvers using speedloaders, but, I always used the HKS speedloaders.

+1........

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S&W Accumulator

I don't know what I was thinking, I just looked and it does have the three piece screw-thanks!

I have a 686 that I use for IDPA and with practice at the range, matches and dry fire and reloading drills in the garage, I do a lot of speed reloads.
I had the yoke screw back out once (before I started using Loctite) and the yoke came out in my hand during a reload. Lesson learned there.

I have never heard of the yoke wearing before.

IMO what gives with this design is that it was never intended to withstand being hammered on. The simple truth is that these are handguns designed for Defense, not Race Guns designed for high intensity competition. I hate to say it but you may have to resign yourself to having the yoke replaced every 1000 reloads or so. If it proves to be a continuing issue with the 686 SSR, which is billed as a competition gun, perhaps S&W will come out with an "endurance" yoke for the gun that can stand up to the pounding you're putting on it. Until that happens, I would suggest that you take advantage of the lifetime warranty and return it as soon as you see the stud getting chewed up enough that it may cause it to fail. Sooner or later they'll get tired of the cost and go back to the older style design using the present 4mm screw thread, which BTW is larger than the # 5 screws used on the older guns so a slight change would net a stronger system than either old style or present.

Perhaps this latest run of 686's have yokes that are not properly hardened. One would think that the screw tip would be not as hard as the surface of the yoke. I seem to recall that part of the "endurance package" upgrade to the older 29/629's was a hardened yolk/frame. I'm sure Smith will keep an eye on this, if enough get returned for warranty work. I guess it would be a good idea to pull the cylinder and check for wear in that area on a regular basis if you own one of these SSR's. It's gotta be a pisser when your cylinder falls off while trying to reload.

I have been using Safariland speed loaders since they were first made. I don't even remember when they were first introduced, sometime in the 1970's, I think. Mostly in N frames, but also in my 586 I got in 1980. Since I shot PPC I didn't have to slam them, just insert until they dropped. Never had any yoke issues with either type of yoke screw. So, this is an interesting piece of information. The new yoke screw and yoke button seemed to have cured yoke endshake problem in the older guns.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Word is a couple of the S&W sponsored shooters have had this problem with the yoke coming off during a speed reload. One of them got DNF'd from the NY State Championship because of this. The yoke does appear to be softer than the retention screw springed tip.

I guys!
Just today today it happened the same problem whit my 686-6 SSR, during a speed reload with weak hand in IDPA CoF!!
Same suggestion?
I think that the old steel was most harder than the actual steel!
Is it true or is only my impression?
I have e 686-3 and it seems harder than 686-6.
Someone knows how may i resolve this problem?
Someone knows how was made the 686-1 or -2 yoke?
Someone have the schematic of the -1 or -2?
Thanks from southern Italy!!

See my post above (#6). The steel in the gun is the same, it is the spring loaded yoke retention screw that is failing due to the "excessive" force you are most probably using in your speed reloads.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

This is a familiar problem with revolvers, old and new, when excessive force, particularly "draw back and smack", is applied to the open cylinder with speedloaders. It is an operator induced failure, and no mechanical fix will prevent it from failing from excessive force.

The correct technique is to hold the cylinder firmly in the off hand with the thumb and 2 fingers through the frame and PUSH the speedloader until it releases. Then drop the speedloader. Smacking the speedloadeer wastes time and applies excessive force to the cylinder after the speedloader releases and bottoms out. It is just poor technique.

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Science plus Art

H Richard and OKFC05, thanks for your answers!
I'll try to modify the screw seat, i still don't know how, but i 'll try!!
Working the "V" and make it like a milling flat, replacing the genuine screw whit a springless and flat one.
What do you think?
Oh, it's clear that i'll change my reload technique!!

Well I just ordered two Comp ll's and was getting ready to try the Comp lll's until I read this thread. Now I believe I will stick with the 2"s.
I may try the Speed Beez instead of the 3's, the Speed Beez seems to be very well made.

I had the same thing happen to my new model 64. After about 5000 rounds of 38 special factory RNL ammo, my yoke was almost falling out of the revolver. S&W replaced the yoke at no cost and returned the gun to me in 2 weeks. Probably due to hard and fast reloads with Safariland comp III speed loaders. Here's a picture of the yoke before I returned the gun to S&W for repair.

Attached Images

Yoke2.jpg (57.7 KB, 94 views)

I recently checked my new 629, my 686 + seven shot, my model 65, and a 10-11. All show signs of cutting on the yoke due to the spring loaded screw. None of these have been shot in IDPA and I have used only HKS speed loaders with these revolvers, since they are for self defense and hunting only. I have about 14 old S&W model 10s, 64s, 15s, and 19s that have the old style flat tipped screw. I have shot many of them in IPSC and IDPA for 20 years and none show signs of cutting the yoke. I believe the new design screw with the spring loaded tip is a poor design.

I cannot totally agree that it is a poor design. It works very well for eliminating yoke endshake under normal operating conditions. It works very well for speedloading when holding the speedloader in the right hand and the open cylinder with the left thumb and two fingers while holding the gun with the remainder of the left hand. I have had no issues with speedloading my 627-2 that way for 15 years. I agree that it was not designed or anticipated that folks would hold the gun in the right hand and slam a speedloader into the unsupported cylinder with the left hand. If the screw is not tight and a good fit, you can push the yoke right out of the gun.

For those that speedload with the left hand, find a screw that fits the threads, and fit the tip to the V in the yoke, eliminating the spring loaded screw weak point. I believe there has been some discussion on another thread here on what kind of screw is needed to make the change.

I'm not sure how the older style yoke would hold up under the left hand speed load technique as the yoke was not hardened in that area and the screw head was considerably smaller. Yoke endshake was a problem in the old system under heavy use.
By the way, I'm not dissing the technique, just as the yoke system was designed to withstand that kind of forces. :-)

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

I have had this same thing happen to me while running a 625-2 in USPSA matches. The ammo is 230 gr ball in full-moon clips. I have seen it happen to another local shooter using a 625 and moonclips. We believe this can happen during a reload where excess force is applied in haste. Several factors come into play. One factor may be a slightly loose yoke screw. Another seems to be that the spring-loaded yoke screw can retract enough under stress to allow the yoke to exit the gun.

I also believe the stainless steel used in S&W revolvers is a bit too soft. The metallurgists doubtless have good reasons for using the steel they selected.

These revolvers really aren't built to take regular abuse that competitive shooters generate. Most owners will never have a problem.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

covered previously?