I was comparing my two S&W 686s today: normal 686 and Performance Center version. Firing the PC 686 SA. After sixth and final cartridge, the hammer locked back. So did the trigger.

It may be an internal lock failure, which some consider an "urban myth." I'm taking it to the gunsmith on Monday.


Has anyone heard of this anything like this happening to a L-frame Smith? I am flabbergasted. I mean, my wife uses her/my 686 for home defense.

Any feedback would be most appreciated.

This is why "locks" do not belong on any firearm that could potentially be used for self defense. I will not own a gun that has the lock system for this reason. Welcome to "Lawyer World". Kyle

It's not myth, I have experienced this twice with a .357 J-Frame. There is enough first-hand anecdotal evidence posted on this forum that it cannoe be ignored.

"Has anyone heard of this anything like this happening to a N-frame Smith?". I don't recall anyone mentioning this, although I haven't read a "Lock" post in months and it may be faaulty memory. There are a plethora of reports of lock-ups occurring with both J and L Frame guns, however, and your 686 is an L Frame, not an N.

Let me start by saying that I'm no apologist for the internal lock and I have either removed or disabled all the locks on my Smith revolvers so equipped. However, the internal lock on Smith revolvers with an external hammer like your 686 works by turning a stud located on the interior side of the lock "flag" into a corresponding groove machined into the left side of the hammer. With the hammer cocked, the stud on the flag and the groove in the hammer are misaligned, so its not unexpected that you can't turn the lock with the hammer back.

Because of the way the internal lock works, and because the hammer on your 686 is stuck in the cocked position, I don't believe this failure can have anything to do with the internal lock.

The internal lock is a handy scapegoat for every failure of a Smith revolver equipped with one, but the fact is that verified failures are rare. I don't think this case is one of them.

__________________
Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

I'm willing to bet a whole quarter it aint the Lock. If you knew me, you'd know I don't bet on anything less than a sure thing.

Have to pull the sideplate to be sure but I suspect one of 2 possibilities. One is that the DA sear is out of position and jammed up the lockwork. Two is that the hammer block broke and a loose piece has jammed up the lockwork.

Since there are no live rounds left, just take off the sideplate and see what is going on. Post Pictures!

D'oh! I knew it was a L-frame I swear. Anyway, my mind is blown by this. I've heard terrible stories about Smith's quality control re: the M&P and Bodyguard, but I thought the big frame steel revolvers were beyond reproach.

Good point about the sear. I'll have a pro smith check it out, 'cause I want expert, independent analysis. I'll take video and pics and post them here. I've got a couple of good shots. I'll go back and change my post on my site to reflect your expert guesses. Thanks for that!

Attached Images

DSC_0003.jpg (117.1 KB, 398 views)

The innards of a Smith & Wesson revolver aren't exactly "rocket science" territory.

__________________
Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

I can't even spell kemistree.

I don't shoot reloads. Standard issue Sellier & Bellot .38 ammo. CORRECTION: I was shooting .357 Federals. Straight out of the box. No reloads.

No problemo! Keep us posted.

__________________
Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

Robert, please be sure to let us know what you find out. About a month ago I unloaded my 686 SSR (Pro Series) and after closing the Cylinder back up I, just out of habit, cocked the Hammer back. When I did this and tried to release it I found the Hammer locked back, more like hung up, and I had to pull it back fairly hard to get it to release, which it did in a rough, "catchy" manner. It did this at least three more times, but to a lesser degree.

After this happened I sat there for at least 10 minutes working the Hammer without any more "hang ups" before putting in some Snap Caps and dry firing it for another 10 minutes or so without issue. Two nights ago I got the SSR out again and worked the Hammer some more with no problems whatsoever so at this point in time it's more of a trust issue with me........

While I haven't done so yet, my plan is to contact S&W Customer Service and have them check it out. I was kind of hoping to get it to duplicate the hang up and if it did I was going to leave it that way when sending it back........

Hi, Robert. I've been thinking about this some more and have a question for you. I know the hammer is locked back, but can you pull it back further so that it goes tight against the frame?

If so, try this..........

pull the hammer back tight against the frame and hold it there. While holding it there, using its key, turn the internal lock clockwise like you would to unlock it and see if this changes the situation at all. I seem to remember that you could force the lock counterclockwise with the hammer cocked and jam it up. By pulling the hammer all the way to the rear, you might be able to unjam it if this is the problem.

If you can move the hammer rearward, give it a try, and let us know the results, if any.

__________________
Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

I haven't shot factory ammo in 42 years. If reloads is what you're using it's not them.

You can't make a blanket statement like that. If you reload, you should know that not all reloads are created equal. I've purchased reloads that were hot enough to split their cases.

It's not always the nut. Sometimes it's the nut holding the wrench.

__________________
Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

I don't think that ammo had anything to do with this.

My hunch is that it was a 1 in 10,000 chance caused by a jerky start stop cocking of the hammer and perhaps a bit of fouling or debris in the lockwork that kicked the DA sear out of position. If so, pulling the slide plate and a touch with a screwdriver will probably fix it in about 2 minutes. However, at this point that's just a spitball guess that may not stick. Another guess is the DA sear might have snapped in two, if so I would inquire if the gun has seen a lot of dry firing without the protection of snap caps, it's a heck of a shock to the entire hammer assembly when it hits the frame without any cushioning.

To the OP. Ask your gunsmith to take some pics as soon as he opens it up and post them up here. As I'm sure you know by now, we are just frothing to know what has actually gone wrong.

Since the lock flag is partially up in the photo that Robert posted, I would suspect the internal lock...
I would try XTrooper's recommendation and see if the gun can be unlocked. Whether the problem is caused by the lock or not, I think a trip back to S&W is in order to correct whatever the problem might be.

I just took another close look at the picture posted. Tracer is correct, the lock flag is partially lifted up. Shame on me, I should have looked closer.

I now officially eat crow pertaining to the lock in the heavier models. It's become quite apparent that just cocking the gun can cause it to engage.

I would suggest sending the video of this happening and a high resolution pic of that raised flag to Customer Service, then contacting them and inquiring as to the procedure for shipping a cocked and loaded revolver to them for repair. That should tie someones shorts into a real knot. Yeah, I know, all of the rounds were fired. However, this should have been 100% impossible and it's time they got a good wedgie.

That's your first problem: NEVER use anybody elses reloads.

Which proves my point nicely. Thanks.

__________________
Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

dang...getting interesting

__________________
SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

I have a dumb question: should Robert put a cloth or something between the hammer and the frame to prevent the hammer from contacting the firing pin? I know that the action is locked up and unlikely to unlock by itself but shouldn't there be some sort of soft block installed? Maybe I am just a nervous little dog.

Chris

__________________
/at least she finds me handy.

It's unloaded, Chris. Fortunately, it locked up after he fired the last round.

__________________
Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

This one caught my eye as I have a 686-6 PC revolver. Can you tell us what model this is? It does appear from your pic that the flag is partially raised. If you cannot insert your key and turn clockwise to lower the flag below the frame, there is something amiss with the lock mechanism. Recently, over on the Smithing forum, another poster had received a new PC revolver that appeared to have a miscast MIM trigger lever. It is possible that somehow the trigger lever has broken and now prevents the rebound slide from moving forward on your gun. This will bind up both the trigger and hammer in the rear position. Keep us posted on this! I find this rather disturbing. One thing for sure, if you have a broken MIM trigger lever, I will definitely be replacing mine with an old one. I pretty much use this 686 for silhouette and long range plinking, but I would be really pissed if the gun failed me in a match. I have enough to concentrate on without being concerned with a gun that may not go bang when I pull the trigger. At any rate, I'd give Smith a call and ask to speak directly with someone in the PC. Explain the situation. They will definitely send out a shipping label and give this gun prompt attention!

XTrooper:

OK, thanks. I must've missed that in the previous posts. ... no more anxious feeling about that cocked 686 now

Chris

First please note: I was shooting .357 Federals (from the box) not .38s. I'd forgotten that I'd switched caliber for the test. My bad.

OK, so, I just got back from the gunsmith: Dave Sunturri in North Attleboro, MA. Dave confirms it: the 686's internal lock failed. It engaged after firing. Dave unlocked the gun, removed the spent cartridges and then demo-ed the problem.

I'll be sending the Smith to Smith. I'll let you know what they have to say. Meanwhile, my faith in modern Smiths has been shaken, not stirred. Oh, and if you want me to demo anything or take a picture of some part of the gun let me know. Thanks.

By "demo" do you mean you can duplicate the problem? If you could video that I think you could put a lot of questions to rest.

It was obvious from the photo that there was a good chance that the lock was involved, at least on some level. Knowing that, I would be interested in seeing S&W's repair information that comes back with the gun.........

How exactly was your gunsmith able to demo the problem? Still waiting to hear what 686 PC model that you are having this issue with.

I'm using the wrong word here. I don't mean demo the problem as in recreate it. I mean, show what went wrong. The video of my gunsmith examining the gun's on guntruth on YouTube.

I am amazed that the weapon malfunctioned. I am astounded that it happened while I was videoing it in action. What are the odds? And why can't that kind of thing happen to me in the lottery ticket part of my life?

Anyway, I'll call Smith tomorrow and report back here. Thanks again for helping me see this in perspective.

For anyone else who wants to find the vid, I found it by searching for "gunsmith" and sorting by upload date. The Youtube poster's user name is GUNTRUTH.

I had hoped for video of the gun locking up while dry firing or shooting, but the smith appears to be locking it with the key after cocking it. Not sure if that is supposed to be possible or not.

OP, I take it you are an active firearms journalist?

The same thing happened to my 60-14 except there was still live rounds in the gun. I was able to free it up with the key by manipulating the hammer and trigger while keeping it pointed safely down range. It is the last IL revolver I will ever buy...

__________________
"Shall not be infringed"